My report from Blackstone is in, does anyone know how I can post the report instead of typing it in?
Thanks.
Thanks.
2014 HD Road King, Red Line 20w/50
- Thread starter RevRider
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Scan it if you have a scanner or contact Blackstone and they'll gladly email you a copy.
Hello To All,
I am trying to upload my Blackstone Report on my 2014 Road King using Red Line 20w/50 oil, in service for 3,132 miles, about 11 months, with a total mileage on the bike of 10,012:
I paid about $15 per quart for the Red Line; the Valvoline Motorcycle Syn 20w50 I bought at Walmart for $6.00 a quart; the HD Syn3 was about $13 per quart.
I believe my Harley is moving in the right direction with wear, I am very pleased with it.
Thoughts?
I am trying to upload my Blackstone Report on my 2014 Road King using Red Line 20w/50 oil, in service for 3,132 miles, about 11 months, with a total mileage on the bike of 10,012:
I paid about $15 per quart for the Red Line; the Valvoline Motorcycle Syn 20w50 I bought at Walmart for $6.00 a quart; the HD Syn3 was about $13 per quart.
I believe my Harley is moving in the right direction with wear, I am very pleased with it.
Thoughts?
Did you use the car engine 20w50 or the motorcycle 20w-50? I'm surprised about the moly level for a motorcycle oil...
CT 8 -- I think from a mileage viewpoint, this oil could have stayed in a lot longer, but it was coming up to the 1 year mark, so that's why I changed it.
Jetronic -- I used the motorcycle 20/50.
Jetronic -- I used the motorcycle 20/50.
You have good reason to be happy with the report.
I dont see how it can be any better as far as what elements Blackstone reports.
I dont think I ever saw such a low metal count in a HD engine. Then again, almost the same goes for the Valvoline report before this report and the Harley oil before the Valvoline.
So my thoughts are:
1. I would never spend $15 a quart on oil not specified by the manufacturer.
2. To me the Valvoline formula did just as well (and better) at half the cost and is closer to the type of oil recommended by Harley Davidson.
Harley recommends an HEDO for their engines if not using their oil. If you look at the Valvoline report you have it has much of the elements of an HEDO oil (Boron and/or Magnesium or combination), just a little shy but at least they are there.
Manufacturers that recommend an HEDO (no matter what product) I suspect are more concerned about piston/piston ring and valve deposits which can be far worse over time then splitting hairs over wear metals in the oil.
3. So those are my thoughts if it was my bike, as you know I have a 14 Road King and the UOAs and VOAs posted all over this forum on the Mystik oil I use. I would skip the Red Line and go back to the Valvoline Synthetic (thanks for posting) Im so impressed with the way the Valvoline looks that if I didnt just acquire EIGHT GALLONS of Mystik JT8 15/50 semi syn I would go out and get the Valvoline. *L* To me the Valvoline almost looks like an HEDO in a 20/50 synthetic package which would make for a nice clean deposit free engine.
4. I ended up with 8 gallons of Mystik because the company I ordered from made a mistake and sent me a double order. I only ordered 2 - 2 gallon jugs and ended up getting 4 - 2 gallon jugs. I need to get rid of 2 of them or they will be sitting around for too long, wouldnt be comfortable using the last 4 gallons 3 to 4 years from now.
I dont see how it can be any better as far as what elements Blackstone reports.
I dont think I ever saw such a low metal count in a HD engine. Then again, almost the same goes for the Valvoline report before this report and the Harley oil before the Valvoline.
So my thoughts are:
1. I would never spend $15 a quart on oil not specified by the manufacturer.
2. To me the Valvoline formula did just as well (and better) at half the cost and is closer to the type of oil recommended by Harley Davidson.
Harley recommends an HEDO for their engines if not using their oil. If you look at the Valvoline report you have it has much of the elements of an HEDO oil (Boron and/or Magnesium or combination), just a little shy but at least they are there.
Manufacturers that recommend an HEDO (no matter what product) I suspect are more concerned about piston/piston ring and valve deposits which can be far worse over time then splitting hairs over wear metals in the oil.
3. So those are my thoughts if it was my bike, as you know I have a 14 Road King and the UOAs and VOAs posted all over this forum on the Mystik oil I use. I would skip the Red Line and go back to the Valvoline Synthetic (thanks for posting) Im so impressed with the way the Valvoline looks that if I didnt just acquire EIGHT GALLONS of Mystik JT8 15/50 semi syn I would go out and get the Valvoline. *L* To me the Valvoline almost looks like an HEDO in a 20/50 synthetic package which would make for a nice clean deposit free engine.
4. I ended up with 8 gallons of Mystik because the company I ordered from made a mistake and sent me a double order. I only ordered 2 - 2 gallon jugs and ended up getting 4 - 2 gallon jugs. I need to get rid of 2 of them or they will be sitting around for too long, wouldnt be comfortable using the last 4 gallons 3 to 4 years from now.
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The Valvoline syn you use in your older OCI, I'm curious exactly which syn this was; Synpower, VR1, 4T motorcycle oil, etc. I've got the 4T syn in my Road King now and I'm curious if your report is on that particular flavor by chance.
Hi MoreCowbellAz,
I used the Valvoline Syn, 4T Motorcycle oil, 20w/50.
RevRider
I used the Valvoline Syn, 4T Motorcycle oil, 20w/50.
RevRider
Good Evening Alarmguy,
Thank you for your comments, I appreciate them.
I have never spent $15 per quart before, but my curiosity got the best of me.
I think the Valvoline UOA validates the quality of oil that it is and I was extremely happy with that report. I put in about 3.5 quarts, so at $6.00 per quart, it cost me $21 to fill the HOG; at $15 per quart, it cost me $52 for that change -- I like the $21 better.
I did re-fill with the Valvoline and plan to stick with it, unless another curiosity gets the better of me. Have you used Amsoil's product or Spectro in the engine? I use Spectro in the Transmission and Primary, very pleased with them.
I was thinking that the Red Line would assist in the engine running possibly cooler, but my observation is my EITM would kick in as before so I don't think the engine ran any cooler. I actually think, although I did not keep the count of times when the EITM activated, that it kicked in less with the Valvoline.
I'm no product fanboy, but I believe Valvoline has been making oil for over 100+ years, so they must be doing something right.
I just did my 10k service and I had to put in a new battery. My bike is coming up to 3 years old in November of this year, always kept on the Battery Tender, but the cranking power dropped significantly, my mechanic suggested I replace it. I noticed it was getting a little slower in firing up - I was hoping for more than 3 years on the battery, how is yours doing?
RevRider
Thank you for your comments, I appreciate them.
I have never spent $15 per quart before, but my curiosity got the best of me.
I think the Valvoline UOA validates the quality of oil that it is and I was extremely happy with that report. I put in about 3.5 quarts, so at $6.00 per quart, it cost me $21 to fill the HOG; at $15 per quart, it cost me $52 for that change -- I like the $21 better.
I did re-fill with the Valvoline and plan to stick with it, unless another curiosity gets the better of me. Have you used Amsoil's product or Spectro in the engine? I use Spectro in the Transmission and Primary, very pleased with them.
I was thinking that the Red Line would assist in the engine running possibly cooler, but my observation is my EITM would kick in as before so I don't think the engine ran any cooler. I actually think, although I did not keep the count of times when the EITM activated, that it kicked in less with the Valvoline.
I'm no product fanboy, but I believe Valvoline has been making oil for over 100+ years, so they must be doing something right.
I just did my 10k service and I had to put in a new battery. My bike is coming up to 3 years old in November of this year, always kept on the Battery Tender, but the cranking power dropped significantly, my mechanic suggested I replace it. I noticed it was getting a little slower in firing up - I was hoping for more than 3 years on the battery, how is yours doing?
RevRider
Just another thought, it doesn't appear that hyper-loading the product with Zinc/Phosphorus really changes anything, I could be wrong, I am no expert for sure on this, but it seems to me that there is a practical limit that is needed, with the excess just raising the cost of the product?
Can anyone shed light on this?
RevRider
Can anyone shed light on this?
RevRider
It doesn't appear that hyper-loading the oil with zinc/phosphorus provides a significant benefit to justify the additional cost for the oil. I am not an expert on this by any means, so I am open to learn on this. Does an Ester based oil trump a non-ester based? Again, I am thinking not, but again I am not an expert.
RevRider
RevRider
My thoughts:
I'd use regular automotive Redline in a Harley engine, because there's no gearbox or clutch in them.
I'd go a full grade down, maybe possibly more, with Redline vs most other oils. That is, a 10w or 15w40 instead of a 20w50. My brother runs Redline 10w30 in his Dyna, and is extremely happy.
It seems like any of these fluids is adequate to your use of the bike.
I'd use regular automotive Redline in a Harley engine, because there's no gearbox or clutch in them.
I'd go a full grade down, maybe possibly more, with Redline vs most other oils. That is, a 10w or 15w40 instead of a 20w50. My brother runs Redline 10w30 in his Dyna, and is extremely happy.
It seems like any of these fluids is adequate to your use of the bike.
Originally Posted By: RevRider
Good Evening Alarmguy,
Thank you for your comments, I appreciate them.
I have never spent $15 per quart before, but my curiosity got the best of me.
I think the Valvoline UOA validates the quality of oil that it is and I was extremely happy with that report. I put in about 3.5 quarts, so at $6.00 per quart, it cost me $21 to fill the HOG; at $15 per quart, it cost me $52 for that change -- I like the $21 better.
I did re-fill with the Valvoline and plan to stick with it, unless another curiosity gets the better of me. Have you used Amsoil's product or Spectro in the engine? I use Spectro in the Transmission and Primary, very pleased with them.
I was thinking that the Red Line would assist in the engine running possibly cooler, but my observation is my EITM would kick in as before so I don't think the engine ran any cooler. I actually think, although I did not keep the count of times when the EITM activated, that it kicked in less with the Valvoline.
I'm no product fanboy, but I believe Valvoline has been making oil for over 100+ years, so they must be doing something right.
I just did my 10k service and I had to put in a new battery. My bike is coming up to 3 years old in November of this year, always kept on the Battery Tender, but the cranking power dropped significantly, my mechanic suggested I replace it. I noticed it was getting a little slower in firing up - I was hoping for more than 3 years on the battery, how is yours doing?
RevRider
Sure thing Revrider.
I too am not an expert, not sure anyone is, why I pretty much follow what the manufacturer says, please also know that I am in no way discounting what someone wishes to spend for oil, we all do what works for us, makes us happy, nothing wrong with that and only a few dollars more then HD oil too. On top of that it was an excellent report.
I do agree, in changing oil per manufactures recommendation so I too would have changed at or before the 1 year mark if I didnt have the mileage to do so sooner.
I was impressed with the Valvoline report too being the engine was still new and breaking in, I thought it was impressive. Im not really loyal to product either, I do feel Valvoline oils are unrated by many.
Funny you should bring up the battery! Geez, I almost felt like from day one it was on the weak side, after some lite investigating, not to serious, I saw the HO engine on our bikes, demand a bit more from the battery and starter, way more so when its hot in the South Carolina heat, it does turn the engine slow when hot.
I still have the OEM battery, have read in forums, nature of the beast, also knowing I could upgrade to a better battery and from what I read it would make a large difference. I intended to change it with a high amp Yuasa as we do travel quite a bit a couple hour each way trips, but the year wore on, never got a new one, I guess I will wait again until next year or whenever, I forgot about it and got used to it, now I will be thinking about it again.
Talking about power, I am typing in the dark, excuse any typos or if something doesnt make sense, we lost power at the house during a storm and my laptop has its own battery of course AND my cable modem, router and accessories are running on a uninterruptable power supply that I only bought about six months ago. Never thought I would need it, truly is a rare occurrence here and its kind of fun with my router modem and stuff still working, I bought a beefy back up, looks like I may get the chance to see how long it will last, been over an hour now.
Good Evening Alarmguy,
Thank you for your comments, I appreciate them.
I have never spent $15 per quart before, but my curiosity got the best of me.
I think the Valvoline UOA validates the quality of oil that it is and I was extremely happy with that report. I put in about 3.5 quarts, so at $6.00 per quart, it cost me $21 to fill the HOG; at $15 per quart, it cost me $52 for that change -- I like the $21 better.
I did re-fill with the Valvoline and plan to stick with it, unless another curiosity gets the better of me. Have you used Amsoil's product or Spectro in the engine? I use Spectro in the Transmission and Primary, very pleased with them.
I was thinking that the Red Line would assist in the engine running possibly cooler, but my observation is my EITM would kick in as before so I don't think the engine ran any cooler. I actually think, although I did not keep the count of times when the EITM activated, that it kicked in less with the Valvoline.
I'm no product fanboy, but I believe Valvoline has been making oil for over 100+ years, so they must be doing something right.
I just did my 10k service and I had to put in a new battery. My bike is coming up to 3 years old in November of this year, always kept on the Battery Tender, but the cranking power dropped significantly, my mechanic suggested I replace it. I noticed it was getting a little slower in firing up - I was hoping for more than 3 years on the battery, how is yours doing?
RevRider
Sure thing Revrider.
I too am not an expert, not sure anyone is, why I pretty much follow what the manufacturer says, please also know that I am in no way discounting what someone wishes to spend for oil, we all do what works for us, makes us happy, nothing wrong with that and only a few dollars more then HD oil too. On top of that it was an excellent report.
I do agree, in changing oil per manufactures recommendation so I too would have changed at or before the 1 year mark if I didnt have the mileage to do so sooner.
I was impressed with the Valvoline report too being the engine was still new and breaking in, I thought it was impressive. Im not really loyal to product either, I do feel Valvoline oils are unrated by many.
Funny you should bring up the battery! Geez, I almost felt like from day one it was on the weak side, after some lite investigating, not to serious, I saw the HO engine on our bikes, demand a bit more from the battery and starter, way more so when its hot in the South Carolina heat, it does turn the engine slow when hot.
I still have the OEM battery, have read in forums, nature of the beast, also knowing I could upgrade to a better battery and from what I read it would make a large difference. I intended to change it with a high amp Yuasa as we do travel quite a bit a couple hour each way trips, but the year wore on, never got a new one, I guess I will wait again until next year or whenever, I forgot about it and got used to it, now I will be thinking about it again.
Talking about power, I am typing in the dark, excuse any typos or if something doesnt make sense, we lost power at the house during a storm and my laptop has its own battery of course AND my cable modem, router and accessories are running on a uninterruptable power supply that I only bought about six months ago. Never thought I would need it, truly is a rare occurrence here and its kind of fun with my router modem and stuff still working, I bought a beefy back up, looks like I may get the chance to see how long it will last, been over an hour now.
Originally Posted By: RevRider
Just another thought, it doesn't appear that hyper-loading the product with Zinc/Phosphorus really changes anything, I could be wrong, I am no expert for sure on this, but it seems to me that there is a practical limit that is needed, with the excess just raising the cost of the product?
Can anyone shed light on this?
RevRider
My two cents, zinc, the cheapest metal on earth most likely cost less then the oil. Oil is the best anti wear compound in a properly designed engine, zinc helps prevent wear where there is no oil present. Anyway, from what some say, there is a point of diminishing returns with too much additive in the oil. After all, zinc is a metal, just a cheap soft metal that would sacrifice itself against a harder metal. I look at it this way, dont laugh, but piston aircraft engines use the same weight oils our bikes and cars do with 20/50 I think popular but like everything that is changing.
If interested you can look into it, one brand by Shell is called AeroShell, there are no anti wear agents as we know them, zero zinc, zero metals of any kind. From what I understand (im not expert and only looked into it for fun) the biggest concern in piston aircraft is engine deposits on the pistons, rings and valves and its those metals that leave those deposits.
The HEDO oils (diesel oils) have a lot of zinc but they also use compounds like magnesium and/or boron to help combat piston, piston ring and valve deposits (im no expert but HEDO oil has a nice add pack with one or both of those). I think Harleys concern too on the newer engines and why CH4 or higher diesel oil (HEDO) recommended if not using their oil.
Anyway, to me, oil is about the complete package, including elements that I doubt show up in oil reports, even the quality of the oil itself and the oil film strength too.
Just another thought, it doesn't appear that hyper-loading the product with Zinc/Phosphorus really changes anything, I could be wrong, I am no expert for sure on this, but it seems to me that there is a practical limit that is needed, with the excess just raising the cost of the product?
Can anyone shed light on this?
RevRider
My two cents, zinc, the cheapest metal on earth most likely cost less then the oil. Oil is the best anti wear compound in a properly designed engine, zinc helps prevent wear where there is no oil present. Anyway, from what some say, there is a point of diminishing returns with too much additive in the oil. After all, zinc is a metal, just a cheap soft metal that would sacrifice itself against a harder metal. I look at it this way, dont laugh, but piston aircraft engines use the same weight oils our bikes and cars do with 20/50 I think popular but like everything that is changing.
If interested you can look into it, one brand by Shell is called AeroShell, there are no anti wear agents as we know them, zero zinc, zero metals of any kind. From what I understand (im not expert and only looked into it for fun) the biggest concern in piston aircraft is engine deposits on the pistons, rings and valves and its those metals that leave those deposits.
The HEDO oils (diesel oils) have a lot of zinc but they also use compounds like magnesium and/or boron to help combat piston, piston ring and valve deposits (im no expert but HEDO oil has a nice add pack with one or both of those). I think Harleys concern too on the newer engines and why CH4 or higher diesel oil (HEDO) recommended if not using their oil.
Anyway, to me, oil is about the complete package, including elements that I doubt show up in oil reports, even the quality of the oil itself and the oil film strength too.
I have seen mentioned several times people worry about the "AGE" of their oil. Blackstone on the otherhand doesn't see or take that as a sign the oil needs to be change due to age. I find it interesting that Harley's oil relies on a big dose Boron, compared to Redline and alot of other oils. Calcium is also alot lower in Harley's oil compared to redline and Valvoline's oil. What that should tell you is, if Harley's oils have whats considered "ENOUGH" or whats good for your motor, then any oil that meets that amount or has higher amounts of additives will work as good or better. And price should be the deciding factor in your oil purchase, not brand or the fact you see it advertised at the track or in magazine ads. And given the point that Harley recommend you use a HDEO if their oil isn't available, proves my point. Any HDEO will be cheaper then Harley's oil. 1 qt of Harley's oil costs about what a gallon of a good HDEO costs.,,,
as soon as harley puts their name on it prices go up! their oil was-is blended by citgo, prolly to a their specs + price point. syn 3 is prolly a group III refined CRUDE oil, decent but overpriced, redline is an Ester based oil that costs much more to make + has many benefits. Ester base oils tolerate more heat than any other type + last longer, so unless you have a lot of short trips that put moisture in the oil the Redline will go 10,000 or prolly 2 years. i change mine at the end of my riding season in Pa no matter the miles, quality clean oil is good insurance for a long lived engine. 20-50 is better in the heat but a 10 or 15 -40 will start easier + flow quicker in cooler weather!! my 1200 sportster with 20-50 group III synthetic would not crank fast enough when stored in a 30 some degree garage + rolling out to ride in a sunny 50 ish afternoon, a 10-40 cured that!!
I heard from the hd forum that syn 3 is now a full synthetic and not a blend anymore.Shaeffers and Lucas have given me great uoa's.I my try syn 3 the next go around.
It really doesnt matter if an oil is a full synthetic, part synthetic or full conventional unless it is proven to result in less wear which rarely anyone can prove, its all marketing. They are all classified by API grade.
If your concerned about wear, use any oil in the API grade recommended by the manufacturer of the vehicle and change at or before the recommended change interval.
Everything else is just unproven reasoning and full blown marketing with words, zero facts..and massive profits for the maker of the oil.
(idahokid, you heard Syn3 is a full synthetic so you may try it now, yet you use part synthetic oil in your truck, personally i rather use part synthetics or full conventional in a motorcycle as no one has ever proved to me a full synthetic is better when it comes to wear)
If your concerned about wear, use any oil in the API grade recommended by the manufacturer of the vehicle and change at or before the recommended change interval.
Everything else is just unproven reasoning and full blown marketing with words, zero facts..and massive profits for the maker of the oil.
(idahokid, you heard Syn3 is a full synthetic so you may try it now, yet you use part synthetic oil in your truck, personally i rather use part synthetics or full conventional in a motorcycle as no one has ever proved to me a full synthetic is better when it comes to wear)
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'no one has ever proved to me a full synthetic is better when it comes to wear'
I agree, but what about full synthetic handling the heat of an air cooled engine better? Heat alone has me thinking of going to a full synthetic 'Redline 20w50' next OCI.
I agree, but what about full synthetic handling the heat of an air cooled engine better? Heat alone has me thinking of going to a full synthetic 'Redline 20w50' next OCI.
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