Hyundai Svc Tech: ACEA A5 / LSPI / T-GDI

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wemay

wemay

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This morning i had to visit my local Hyundai dealership a minor issue. While there, the Service Tech and i struck up a conversation about 2016+ T-GDI now requiring ACEA A5 / LSPI and Calcium detergents / PPPP being the only easily obtainable oil that meets A5 and the fact that (full circle), PPPP is high in Calcium.

I was pleased the Tech was up to speed on everything I asked. He said this...

"Yes, we are aware of the discussions concerning LSPI and the "theory" that Calcium detergents may play a part, But Hyundai has not had any confirmed issues with Calcium based LSPI nor has Shell issued any warnings". BTW Shell and Hyundai have a partnership. I asked about the early Veloster Turbo issues. He advised that those were programming issues for some, and customer reflash issues that lead to overboost, boost spikes and yes, some detonation for others, but not oil related as far as he knows. For us with the pre-A5 requirements, i asked if any back specking will take place. He did not know but doubts it. Regardless, after seeing many turbo models since Hyundai's embracing of the technology and a few heavily deposited intakes ("customers going way over the 5k mile OCI"), he recommends at least the use of a synthetic and preferably an ACEA A5 one. "Hyundai would not have recommended it if they didn't see something going on." I drove to a nearby WM, purchased 5W30 PPPP and had them change it at the dealership.
 
Interesting...
Am sorely tempted to get myself the new Suzuki Baleno with the 1.0L Boosterjet small DI turbo engine. The Petronas 0W20 Suzuki UK use to service these engines has an all calcium over-based detergent so sort of mirrors Hyundai's thinking (and mine).
 
Which company was it that linked Calcium to LSPI? Was it Lubrizol? Are there any other studies apart from Lubrizol that agreed?

wemay, you may have answered this previously. My apologies for repeating myself here...
 
Would it be totally impolite of me to say that I don't believe LSPI exists in the real world of normal people?
Before anyone accuses me of blatant heresy, I can believe it exists for those numbskulls that over-mod a perfectly acceptable stock engine and (deservedly) get burnt for their misguided efforts but normal people? Surely not???
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Interesting...
Am sorely tempted to get myself the new Suzuki Baleno with the 1.0L Boosterjet small DI turbo engine. The Petronas 0W20 Suzuki UK use to service these engines has an all calcium over-based detergent so sort of mirrors Hyundai's thinking (and mine).


Nice...

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/suzu...osterjet-review
 
Yup! PP and PUP are the only A5/B5 oils available here right now, but Castrol should have a reformulated Edge by the end of the year, that will meet A5/B5 once again.
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Would it be totally impolite of me to say that I don't believe LSPI exists in the real world of normal people?
Before anyone accuses me of blatant heresy, I can believe it exists for those numbskulls that over-mod a perfectly acceptable stock engine and (deservedly) get burnt for their misguided efforts but normal people? Surely not???


Not at all. Your line of thinking parallels the Hyundai Master Tech's. But there are still lots of studies out there pointing primarily at Calcium, if not conclusively so.
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Would it be totally impolite of me to say that I don't believe LSPI exists in the real world of normal people?
Before anyone accuses me of blatant heresy, I can believe it exists for those numbskulls that over-mod a perfectly acceptable stock engine and (deservedly) get burnt for their misguided efforts but normal people? Surely not???


Subaru recalled 2014 and some 2015 Forester XTs for something that sounded a lot like LSPI...I don't believe they ever used that term, though. I think some 2015 WRXs were also affected.
http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/...-thread-570138/
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Would it be totally impolite of me to say that I don't believe LSPI exists in the real world of normal people?
Before anyone accuses me of blatant heresy, I can believe it exists for those numbskulls that over-mod a perfectly acceptable stock engine and (deservedly) get burnt for their misguided efforts but normal people? Surely not???


Not at all. Your line of thinking parallels the Hyundai Master Tech's. But there are still lots of studies out there pointing primarily at Calcium, if not conclusively so.


I think one of the papers mentioned that a reasonable dose of moly killed the LSPI even with a lot of calcium present...I'm still using low calcium M1 5W30 as a precaution.
 
Shot in the dark.
I'm wondering if GTL has anything to do with Shell's confidence.


Edit addition...
Yeah Virtus_Probi, i remember reading that as well.(Also could be Shell's source of confidence.)
 
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I don't think it's a coincidence that the most turbo reliant OEM's (like Subaru) that are whining about LSPI are those that seem to have the most problems with oil consumption? If they fix their oil consumption problems, painful as that might be, they might find their LSPI problems disappear and there's less need to shift the blame onto the poor old engine oil.
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
I don't think it's a coincidence that the most turbo reliant OEM's (like Subaru) that are whining about LSPI are those that seem to have the most problems with oil consumption? If they fix their oil consumption problems, painful as that might be, they might find their LSPI problems disappear and there's less need to shift the blame onto the poor old engine oil.


I haven't had any noticeable consumption with my 2.0l DIT, and we have also been doing well on that front with the NA version in my daughter's Impreza. I think Subaru may have finally started to get that monkey off their back.

It is pretty shameful how bad many of the 2.5l engines were/are, though...
 
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Would it be totally impolite of me to say that I don't believe LSPI exists in the real world of normal people?
Before anyone accuses me of blatant heresy, I can believe it exists for those numbskulls that over-mod a perfectly acceptable stock engine and (deservedly) get burnt for their misguided efforts but normal people? Surely not???


Not at all. Your line of thinking parallels the Hyundai Master Tech's. But there are still lots of studies out there pointing primarily at Calcium, if not conclusively so.


I think one of the papers mentioned that a reasonable dose of moly killed the LSPI even with a lot of calcium present...I'm still using low calcium M1 5W30 as a precaution.

Yeah, if I had a GDI engine, I'd stick w M1. I think Castrol Edge also has a good shot of magnesium.
 
Originally Posted By: bigt61

Yeah, if I had a GDI engine, I'd stick w M1. I think Castrol Edge also has a good shot of magnesium.


I'll keep you guys posted reference any blow-ups / failures / catastrophes. Oddly enough, Quaker State (what's 'recommended' in the Hyundai OM) has no A5 approval anymore. I think it's been discussed already though.
 
This is from HyundaiUSA...




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 4:46 PM
To: XXX, Warren
Subject: Hyundai Consumer Affairs Case#: 9562481

Dear Warren:

Thank you for contacting Hyundai Motor America. Thank you for your inquiry regarding what type of oil to use in your 2013 Santa Fe Sport Turbo. We are more than happy to provide you information about which oil you should use in your Santa Fe.

In the most recent version of the Owners Manual (section 8 page 6) for the 2013 Santa Fe Sport both The International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC) GF-4 standard and the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association or Association des Constructeurs Européens d'Automobiles (ACEA) A5 standard are listed as recommended lubricants for the Santa Fe sport. To answer your question directly your Santa Fe does not have to use ACEA A5 standard oil, furthermore using either type of oil will not affect the status of the warranty since both types are recommended. It is worth noting that in the owners manual (section 8 page 8) it does note that for better fuel economy ILSAC GF-4 oil is recommended.

One of the features of MyHyundai is an electronic PDF version of the owners manual is available to you. If you have not done so you can visit hyundaiusa.com/myhyundai to register your Santa Fe and take advantage of such features like the electronic owners manual.

We have documented your questions about your 2013 Santa Fe Sport Turbo, and we appreciate you taking the time to contact us. If you have any questions or concerns that we can assist with, please contact us and reference case number 9562481. Our toll-free customer care number is 800-633-5151

Hyundai Customer Care Center Hours of Operation:
Monday - Friday: 5:00 AM to 7:00 PM Pacific Standard Time Saturday - Sunday: 6:30 AM to 3:00 PM Pacific Standard Time

Thank you for contacting Hyundai Motor America and for being a loyal member of our Hyundai family.

Thank you for contacting Hyundai Motor America. We are in receipt of your e-mail and one of our representatives will get back to you shortly.

Sincerely,
Hyundai Motor America
 
Originally Posted By: bigt61

Yeah, if I had a GDI engine, I'd stick w M1. I think Castrol Edge also has a good shot of magnesium.


When the PQIA tested 5W30 Edge in 2013, it was even lower in calcium and higher in magnesium than M1.
But, the word on BITOG was that it has been reformulated since then with more calcium...I never bothered to track down that story because it had a much higher CCS viscosity than M1. I have kept an eye on more recent VOAs of the M1 to reassure myself that it has not changed (much).
 
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