Liberty Media buys F1 for $8 billion
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When did F1 become something somebody could buy?
Fangio and Ferrari must be spinning in their graves.
One hates to see the capitalization of what was once an actual contest involving constructors and drivers.
Old Bernie will be found in a very hot place for having ruined F1 and made it into a trade asset.
I haven't bothered to follow this joke in years, same with NASCAR and what's now called IndyCar.
Too many series ruined in pursuit of money by those lacking the resources to build cars and teams as well as the talent and courage to actually drive.
Fangio and Ferrari must be spinning in their graves.
One hates to see the capitalization of what was once an actual contest involving constructors and drivers.
Old Bernie will be found in a very hot place for having ruined F1 and made it into a trade asset.
I haven't bothered to follow this joke in years, same with NASCAR and what's now called IndyCar.
Too many series ruined in pursuit of money by those lacking the resources to build cars and teams as well as the talent and courage to actually drive.
Racing today amounts to kit car racing. And there's so much pomp and circumstance around the racing that they could probably keep all that and cancel the race and the important people would not even notice.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
I guess the price is actually $4.4 billion plus taking on debt, so F1 was valued at $8 billion.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
When did F1 become something somebody could buy?
It's an asset, just like anything else. An asset has value, and can generate income like any other investment or business. And it can be bought and sold. Just like a sports team.
When did F1 become something somebody could buy?
It's an asset, just like anything else. An asset has value, and can generate income like any other investment or business. And it can be bought and sold. Just like a sports team.
It's really not buying F1. It's buying the right to market F1, and partial rights to govern it. And, part of it wasn't just when Bernie negotiated exclusive TV rights, but also when the teams threatened to bolt if Bernie didn't sell a significant amount of interest in the business.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Racing today amounts to kit car racing.
What do you mean? Each teams builds it's own chassis.
Racing today amounts to kit car racing.
What do you mean? Each teams builds it's own chassis.
Originally Posted By: supercity
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
When did F1 become something somebody could buy?
Around 1970 when Bernie negotiated exclusive TV rights.
Bernie bought the TV rights for $1 million way back then, and tried to get other team owners to come in with him as partners, but they didn't see the potential.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
When did F1 become something somebody could buy?
Around 1970 when Bernie negotiated exclusive TV rights.
Bernie bought the TV rights for $1 million way back then, and tried to get other team owners to come in with him as partners, but they didn't see the potential.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
When did F1 become something somebody could buy?
It's an asset, just like anything else. An asset has value, and can generate income like any other investment or business. And it can be bought and sold. Just like a sports team.
Sure, but back in the day, F1 was merely the formula for the cars with which the Gran Prix series was run.
There was nothing that could be bought or sold.
There were teams, there was a sanctioning body and there were the tracks which offered purses and later start money for the teams that showed up and ran cars.
Racing was more of a sport and less of a business.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
When did F1 become something somebody could buy?
It's an asset, just like anything else. An asset has value, and can generate income like any other investment or business. And it can be bought and sold. Just like a sports team.
Sure, but back in the day, F1 was merely the formula for the cars with which the Gran Prix series was run.
There was nothing that could be bought or sold.
There were teams, there was a sanctioning body and there were the tracks which offered purses and later start money for the teams that showed up and ran cars.
Racing was more of a sport and less of a business.
The problem was, however, that you have to make it a business. When there was a certain works team (i.e. Ferrari) competing against the garagistas, the latter had better get the business side in order, lest Ferrari simply outspend them. The reality is that you have to bring in more money than you spend, or you're finished, unless you're being subsidized from something else (i.e. getting money from Ferrari itself, running Williams Advanced Engineering as a separate entity from Williams Grand Prix Engineering Limited, McLaren doing a mix of both). Or, you simply spend way less and are a perpetual back marker.
Originally Posted By: benjamming
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Racing today amounts to kit car racing.
What do you mean? Each teams builds it's own chassis.
And there's four drivetrain suppliers now. I'm sure the bottom half of the grid wishes it was a kit car series, but MB or Ferrari aren't going to sell anyone their current chassis with regular aerokit updates...
Anyways, I hope the new ownership is more open with their TV and digital rights going forward. I'd love to get a simplified pitwall feed of what's going on, on my laptop or phone while watching live. It could be a way to promote live viewing over recorded where no one watches the commercials...
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Racing today amounts to kit car racing.
What do you mean? Each teams builds it's own chassis.
And there's four drivetrain suppliers now. I'm sure the bottom half of the grid wishes it was a kit car series, but MB or Ferrari aren't going to sell anyone their current chassis with regular aerokit updates...
Anyways, I hope the new ownership is more open with their TV and digital rights going forward. I'd love to get a simplified pitwall feed of what's going on, on my laptop or phone while watching live. It could be a way to promote live viewing over recorded where no one watches the commercials...
Originally Posted By: CT8
It is an entertainment business etc.
This.
And therefore, it is subject to whatever manipulations its owner decides is necessary to bring in an audience and make money. Someone at Liberty has been to COTA and understands that this incredible spectacle would appeal to many, many Americans if properly packaged. Hopefully, this will include a couple of American drivers generating a rivalry. I wish them well.
It is an entertainment business etc.
This.
And therefore, it is subject to whatever manipulations its owner decides is necessary to bring in an audience and make money. Someone at Liberty has been to COTA and understands that this incredible spectacle would appeal to many, many Americans if properly packaged. Hopefully, this will include a couple of American drivers generating a rivalry. I wish them well.
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There were plenty of UK shops that could design and build a chassis for a team, the Cosworth Ford V-8 mated to a Hewland transaxle was readily available and the bodywork of the time was uncomplicated.
It was possible to field a competitive team without the level of investment required these days.
Back in the day, there was a not lot of money out there, so fielding a car couldn't be very costly.
Most of chassis design was brainwork and fab expertise, neither of which were terribly costly.
It was possible to field a competitive team without the level of investment required these days.
Back in the day, there was a not lot of money out there, so fielding a car couldn't be very costly.
Most of chassis design was brainwork and fab expertise, neither of which were terribly costly.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
There were plenty of UK shops that could design and build a chassis for a team, the Cosworth Ford V-8 mated to a Hewland transaxle was readily available and the bodywork of the time was uncomplicated.
It was possible to field a competitive team without the level of investment required these days.
Back in the day, there was a not lot of money out there, so fielding a car couldn't be very costly.
Most of chassis design was brainwork and fab expertise, neither of which were terribly costly.
And in 1970 I paid $3,200.00 for a new Chevy Nova SS 396. Today I paid more than that for the V-8 option in my Jeep.
There were plenty of UK shops that could design and build a chassis for a team, the Cosworth Ford V-8 mated to a Hewland transaxle was readily available and the bodywork of the time was uncomplicated.
It was possible to field a competitive team without the level of investment required these days.
Back in the day, there was a not lot of money out there, so fielding a car couldn't be very costly.
Most of chassis design was brainwork and fab expertise, neither of which were terribly costly.
And in 1970 I paid $3,200.00 for a new Chevy Nova SS 396. Today I paid more than that for the V-8 option in my Jeep.
So you got a deal on the Chevy and got ripped off on the Jeep?
Has nothing to do with Gran Prix racing.
If the racing were better, the higher costs might make sense. It isn't so they don't.
If those currently sanctioning the series had a clue, the racing would be better. They don't so it isn't.
If driver skill and nerve were as much of a factor as was once the case, the racing would be better. It isn't these days.
Basically, the pole car takes the lead and on today's dumbed down courses, really high speeds are never reached and passing opportunities on the track are nil.
Go far enough back and pit stops were an actual need not an artificial requirement, since that's how long the Gran Prix races were, as bad for TV as that might be, although long races might be too much for the effete drivers of today.
In today's Gran Prix series, car matters far more than driver, while back in the day, a Juan Fangio, a Sterling Moss, a Jim Clark, a Jackie Stewart or a Niki Lauda could win driving anything close to competitive.
Those days and those drivers are sadly long gone and Gran Prix racing is now a bit of a joke.
That was my point. Money has ruined the sport rather than improved it, but the same is true of every other top level racing series as well as pro football and basketball. Baseball might still be okay, but only due to the nature of the game.
Has nothing to do with Gran Prix racing.
If the racing were better, the higher costs might make sense. It isn't so they don't.
If those currently sanctioning the series had a clue, the racing would be better. They don't so it isn't.
If driver skill and nerve were as much of a factor as was once the case, the racing would be better. It isn't these days.
Basically, the pole car takes the lead and on today's dumbed down courses, really high speeds are never reached and passing opportunities on the track are nil.
Go far enough back and pit stops were an actual need not an artificial requirement, since that's how long the Gran Prix races were, as bad for TV as that might be, although long races might be too much for the effete drivers of today.
In today's Gran Prix series, car matters far more than driver, while back in the day, a Juan Fangio, a Sterling Moss, a Jim Clark, a Jackie Stewart or a Niki Lauda could win driving anything close to competitive.
Those days and those drivers are sadly long gone and Gran Prix racing is now a bit of a joke.
That was my point. Money has ruined the sport rather than improved it, but the same is true of every other top level racing series as well as pro football and basketball. Baseball might still be okay, but only due to the nature of the game.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Has nothing to do with Gran Prix racing.
No, it has to do with inflation and advanced engineering. What Grand Prix racing was in the 70's when it was "cheap", and drivers got killed every other week, has nothing what so ever to do with it's cost and sophistication today. As you just saw it's an $8 BILLION dollar industry. Stop living in the past. Or as you put it, "back in the day". Those days and drivers are gone. And sadly many of them were killed in those cheaply built death traps you loved so.
Has nothing to do with Gran Prix racing.
No, it has to do with inflation and advanced engineering. What Grand Prix racing was in the 70's when it was "cheap", and drivers got killed every other week, has nothing what so ever to do with it's cost and sophistication today. As you just saw it's an $8 BILLION dollar industry. Stop living in the past. Or as you put it, "back in the day". Those days and drivers are gone. And sadly many of them were killed in those cheaply built death traps you loved so.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
.............really high speeds are never reached....
That's 224 MPH. Just how fast were they going in the 70's?
.............really high speeds are never reached....
That's 224 MPH. Just how fast were they going in the 70's?
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
It was possible to field a competitive team without the level of investment required these days.
Back in the day, there was a not lot of money out there, so fielding a car couldn't be very costly.
Most of chassis design was brainwork and fab expertise, neither of which were terribly costly.
In addition to what Bill already pointed out, we're looking at the past with rose tinted glasses. Ferrari didn't like the independent teams, and that's part of the reason the spending war started. Niki Lauda in his first ride had limited success, and the team folded shortly thereafter. Pay drivers existed back then, too. Teams were in and out back then, as well. As it stands, there are only three historical teams, and by that, I mean teams with basically the same management and/or some continuity in governance structure, and these are Ferrari, McLaren, and Williams.
The old ways of doing things weren't sustainable. Bill already pointed out the safety issues. Teams also couldn't sustain going through three engines per car on a weekend, and the ones that could afford it weren't interested in doing so, since it made little sense from an R&D standpoint. Anyone with a machine shop and more money than brains can pump out high performance engines at will. That's already been mastered. Those who do engines tend to be automakers, and they want some R&D value out of it. Renault, Mercedes, Ferrari, and Honda have made it very clear what would happen if there was a big regression on engines. When it comes to chassis design, wind tunnels are now the norm, and that's been a money maker for Sir Frank - renting out wind tunnel time.
As for good racing, well, there are moments of that. There isn't a simple answer to that. In every era, there were examples of standout cars, be they fleeting in duration or longer term. Currently, downforce rules when combined with safety issues make the racing a little less "interesting" than we might like. Ground effect cars would allow much closer following with less downforce penalty (engine and brake cooling are still another matter). However, ground effect cars turn can easily turn into a lawn dart when someone goes off track.
As for speeds, the cars of yesteryear are of no comparison. Lap records have fallen this year, and next year, more will fall.
Take a look at my Goodwood Revival thread. It's an eye opener. I was showing some of the live vintage formula races to my god daughter earlier on. She watches the odd F1 race, having a big crush on Verstappen. She's only 16, and immediately asked how it would be possible to survive a serious crash in the those early cars.
It was possible to field a competitive team without the level of investment required these days.
Back in the day, there was a not lot of money out there, so fielding a car couldn't be very costly.
Most of chassis design was brainwork and fab expertise, neither of which were terribly costly.
In addition to what Bill already pointed out, we're looking at the past with rose tinted glasses. Ferrari didn't like the independent teams, and that's part of the reason the spending war started. Niki Lauda in his first ride had limited success, and the team folded shortly thereafter. Pay drivers existed back then, too. Teams were in and out back then, as well. As it stands, there are only three historical teams, and by that, I mean teams with basically the same management and/or some continuity in governance structure, and these are Ferrari, McLaren, and Williams.
The old ways of doing things weren't sustainable. Bill already pointed out the safety issues. Teams also couldn't sustain going through three engines per car on a weekend, and the ones that could afford it weren't interested in doing so, since it made little sense from an R&D standpoint. Anyone with a machine shop and more money than brains can pump out high performance engines at will. That's already been mastered. Those who do engines tend to be automakers, and they want some R&D value out of it. Renault, Mercedes, Ferrari, and Honda have made it very clear what would happen if there was a big regression on engines. When it comes to chassis design, wind tunnels are now the norm, and that's been a money maker for Sir Frank - renting out wind tunnel time.
As for good racing, well, there are moments of that. There isn't a simple answer to that. In every era, there were examples of standout cars, be they fleeting in duration or longer term. Currently, downforce rules when combined with safety issues make the racing a little less "interesting" than we might like. Ground effect cars would allow much closer following with less downforce penalty (engine and brake cooling are still another matter). However, ground effect cars turn can easily turn into a lawn dart when someone goes off track.
As for speeds, the cars of yesteryear are of no comparison. Lap records have fallen this year, and next year, more will fall.
Take a look at my Goodwood Revival thread. It's an eye opener. I was showing some of the live vintage formula races to my god daughter earlier on. She watches the odd F1 race, having a big crush on Verstappen. She's only 16, and immediately asked how it would be possible to survive a serious crash in the those early cars.
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