If Porsche C30 and MB 229.52...
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Flat tappets or roller tappets?
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Then full saps oil would be "safer" choice...
Add into equation that in US of A ULS fuels are not so common thing...
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4187185/Re:_Bmw_twin_power_5w30#Post4187185
Track posts from user eddyvw (and som others)
Track posts from user eddyvw (and som others)
Originally Posted By: pscholte
...are the most demanding current standards why would I not want to use them no matter what I drive ( discounting say a 13 year old vehicle with 250,000 miles on it)?
Because C30 (same standard as VW 504.00/507.00) and MB 229.52 are so called low-SAPS oils aimed primarily for diesel engines and DI gasoline engines.
C30 (VW504.00/507.00) are only tested in 0W30 and 5W30 weight. They have most demanding wear test in W30 applications using Low-SAPS formula. That means that for example Castrol 0W30 that you can find in Auto Zone with Full SAPS formula could provide better protection.
However, if you have direct injection gasoline engine C30 oil is really not for you since the U.S. high sulfur gas would simply destroy TBN too early. Also, if it is not DI engine, and requires hypothetically 5W40 oil, then 5W40 will provide better protection because C30 spec is not even applicable to that weight (Porsche A40 is).
I would stick to what manufacturer of your vehicle recommends (weight) and use full synthetic if you want ultimate protection.
...are the most demanding current standards why would I not want to use them no matter what I drive ( discounting say a 13 year old vehicle with 250,000 miles on it)?
Because C30 (same standard as VW 504.00/507.00) and MB 229.52 are so called low-SAPS oils aimed primarily for diesel engines and DI gasoline engines.
C30 (VW504.00/507.00) are only tested in 0W30 and 5W30 weight. They have most demanding wear test in W30 applications using Low-SAPS formula. That means that for example Castrol 0W30 that you can find in Auto Zone with Full SAPS formula could provide better protection.
However, if you have direct injection gasoline engine C30 oil is really not for you since the U.S. high sulfur gas would simply destroy TBN too early. Also, if it is not DI engine, and requires hypothetically 5W40 oil, then 5W40 will provide better protection because C30 spec is not even applicable to that weight (Porsche A40 is).
I would stick to what manufacturer of your vehicle recommends (weight) and use full synthetic if you want ultimate protection.
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MB229.52 is not demanding as a specification, its difficult to get it with other specifications though due to the fuel economy requirements.
VW 504 507 is demanding (rebadged as C30 for Porsche and their handbooks)
BMW LL04 and LL01 are cuurently the most demanding specs in the industry. ACEA 2016 and API SP will also be a challenge for many existing products.
VW 504 507 is demanding (rebadged as C30 for Porsche and their handbooks)
BMW LL04 and LL01 are cuurently the most demanding specs in the industry. ACEA 2016 and API SP will also be a challenge for many existing products.
Thanks for the info. Obviously you cannot just go to the lubrizol tool and select what LOOKS to be the best coverage out of all the specs listed. I always use full synthetic. It is choosing "the best" protection based on specs among the synthetics that I am striving for.
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Originally Posted By: pscholte
Thanks for the info. Obviously you cannot just go to the lubrizol tool and select what LOOKS to be the best coverage out of all the specs listed. I always use full synthetic. It is choosing "the best" protection based on specs among the synthetics that I am striving for.
Well, let me tell you one case.
I had a roommate when I was in graduate school. She bought VW Passat with 1.8T engine and 150hp (2001). That engine is notorious for oil sludge if bad oil is used (non synthetic and some synthetics). My friends A4 with that engine had a sludge bomb and he used M1 5W30 (synthetic, but not specified for Euro engines). Anyway, she was totally oblivious about car. I had to check her car since she bought it because it looked good. One day I check oil and dipstick was completely dry. So I switch car to T6, due to thickness to see whether it would prevent some leaks. It did bit better then GC 0W30 that was in, but still she would regularly manage to go down to 2.5qt out of 4.2qt in the sump.
Guess what? Car still drives with 230K!!! So, stick to good synthetic and enjoy the ride.
Thanks for the info. Obviously you cannot just go to the lubrizol tool and select what LOOKS to be the best coverage out of all the specs listed. I always use full synthetic. It is choosing "the best" protection based on specs among the synthetics that I am striving for.
Well, let me tell you one case.
I had a roommate when I was in graduate school. She bought VW Passat with 1.8T engine and 150hp (2001). That engine is notorious for oil sludge if bad oil is used (non synthetic and some synthetics). My friends A4 with that engine had a sludge bomb and he used M1 5W30 (synthetic, but not specified for Euro engines). Anyway, she was totally oblivious about car. I had to check her car since she bought it because it looked good. One day I check oil and dipstick was completely dry. So I switch car to T6, due to thickness to see whether it would prevent some leaks. It did bit better then GC 0W30 that was in, but still she would regularly manage to go down to 2.5qt out of 4.2qt in the sump.
Guess what? Car still drives with 230K!!! So, stick to good synthetic and enjoy the ride.
bobbydavro,
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
BMW LL04 and LL01 are cuurently the most demanding specs in the industry.
Is this is the latest revision of the specs? Or it does not have any revision? On this forum there is a mantra about MB 229.5, so I am surprised that LL01 (which is quite old) is more demanding than MB 229.5 which seems to be updated periodically.
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
BMW LL04 and LL01 are cuurently the most demanding specs in the industry.
Is this is the latest revision of the specs? Or it does not have any revision? On this forum there is a mantra about MB 229.5, so I am surprised that LL01 (which is quite old) is more demanding than MB 229.5 which seems to be updated periodically.
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Originally Posted By: volodymyr
bobbydavro,
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
BMW LL04 and LL01 are cuurently the most demanding specs in the industry.
Is this is the latest revision of the specs? Or it does not have any revision? On this forum there is a mantra about MB 229.5, so I am surprised that LL01 (which is quite old) is more demanding than MB 229.5 which seems to be updated periodically.
Both LL-01 and LL-04 go through constant updates as well as VW 502.00, Porsche A40, etc, etc.
bobbydavro,
Originally Posted By: bobbydavro
BMW LL04 and LL01 are cuurently the most demanding specs in the industry.
Is this is the latest revision of the specs? Or it does not have any revision? On this forum there is a mantra about MB 229.5, so I am surprised that LL01 (which is quite old) is more demanding than MB 229.5 which seems to be updated periodically.
Both LL-01 and LL-04 go through constant updates as well as VW 502.00, Porsche A40, etc, etc.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Thanks for the info. Obviously you cannot just go to the lubrizol tool and select what LOOKS to be the best coverage out of all the specs listed. I always use full synthetic. It is choosing "the best" protection based on specs among the synthetics that I am striving for.
Well, let me tell you one case.
I had a roommate when I was in graduate school. She bought VW Passat with 1.8T engine and 150hp (2001). That engine is notorious for oil sludge if bad oil is used (non synthetic and some synthetics). My friends A4 with that engine had a sludge bomb and he used M1 5W30 (synthetic, but not specified for Euro engines). Anyway, she was totally oblivious about car. I had to check her car since she bought it because it looked good. One day I check oil and dipstick was completely dry. So I switch car to T6, due to thickness to see whether it would prevent some leaks. It did bit better then GC 0W30 that was in, but still she would regularly manage to go down to 2.5qt out of 4.2qt in the sump.
Guess what? Car still drives with 230K!!! So, stick to good synthetic and enjoy the ride.
edyvw,
It sounds from your example that not only the "quality" is important but matching specs to the car is REALLY important. I can't resist. Am I right in thinking that even if an oil is SN or whatever the current North American standard is I REALLY want it to also have some "nice" ACEA and Euro manufacturers ratings too?
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Thanks for the info. Obviously you cannot just go to the lubrizol tool and select what LOOKS to be the best coverage out of all the specs listed. I always use full synthetic. It is choosing "the best" protection based on specs among the synthetics that I am striving for.
Well, let me tell you one case.
I had a roommate when I was in graduate school. She bought VW Passat with 1.8T engine and 150hp (2001). That engine is notorious for oil sludge if bad oil is used (non synthetic and some synthetics). My friends A4 with that engine had a sludge bomb and he used M1 5W30 (synthetic, but not specified for Euro engines). Anyway, she was totally oblivious about car. I had to check her car since she bought it because it looked good. One day I check oil and dipstick was completely dry. So I switch car to T6, due to thickness to see whether it would prevent some leaks. It did bit better then GC 0W30 that was in, but still she would regularly manage to go down to 2.5qt out of 4.2qt in the sump.
Guess what? Car still drives with 230K!!! So, stick to good synthetic and enjoy the ride.
edyvw,
It sounds from your example that not only the "quality" is important but matching specs to the car is REALLY important. I can't resist. Am I right in thinking that even if an oil is SN or whatever the current North American standard is I REALLY want it to also have some "nice" ACEA and Euro manufacturers ratings too?
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Originally Posted By: pscholte
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Thanks for the info. Obviously you cannot just go to the lubrizol tool and select what LOOKS to be the best coverage out of all the specs listed. I always use full synthetic. It is choosing "the best" protection based on specs among the synthetics that I am striving for.
Well, let me tell you one case.
I had a roommate when I was in graduate school. She bought VW Passat with 1.8T engine and 150hp (2001). That engine is notorious for oil sludge if bad oil is used (non synthetic and some synthetics). My friends A4 with that engine had a sludge bomb and he used M1 5W30 (synthetic, but not specified for Euro engines). Anyway, she was totally oblivious about car. I had to check her car since she bought it because it looked good. One day I check oil and dipstick was completely dry. So I switch car to T6, due to thickness to see whether it would prevent some leaks. It did bit better then GC 0W30 that was in, but still she would regularly manage to go down to 2.5qt out of 4.2qt in the sump.
Guess what? Car still drives with 230K!!! So, stick to good synthetic and enjoy the ride.
edyvw,
It sounds from your example that not only the "quality" is important but matching specs to the car is REALLY important. I can't resist. Am I right in thinking that even if an oil is SN or whatever the current North American standard is I REALLY want it to also have some "nice" ACEA and Euro manufacturers ratings too?
Again, it depends whether you car call for it. For us Euro owners API rating does not mean anything and to certain extent even ACEA. What really matters for me in this case is what VW and BMW say.
If your car calls for API SN, let's say 0W20, putting 0W40 ACEA A3/B3 B4 might create issues, increase MPG etc.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: pscholte
Thanks for the info. Obviously you cannot just go to the lubrizol tool and select what LOOKS to be the best coverage out of all the specs listed. I always use full synthetic. It is choosing "the best" protection based on specs among the synthetics that I am striving for.
Well, let me tell you one case.
I had a roommate when I was in graduate school. She bought VW Passat with 1.8T engine and 150hp (2001). That engine is notorious for oil sludge if bad oil is used (non synthetic and some synthetics). My friends A4 with that engine had a sludge bomb and he used M1 5W30 (synthetic, but not specified for Euro engines). Anyway, she was totally oblivious about car. I had to check her car since she bought it because it looked good. One day I check oil and dipstick was completely dry. So I switch car to T6, due to thickness to see whether it would prevent some leaks. It did bit better then GC 0W30 that was in, but still she would regularly manage to go down to 2.5qt out of 4.2qt in the sump.
Guess what? Car still drives with 230K!!! So, stick to good synthetic and enjoy the ride.
edyvw,
It sounds from your example that not only the "quality" is important but matching specs to the car is REALLY important. I can't resist. Am I right in thinking that even if an oil is SN or whatever the current North American standard is I REALLY want it to also have some "nice" ACEA and Euro manufacturers ratings too?
Again, it depends whether you car call for it. For us Euro owners API rating does not mean anything and to certain extent even ACEA. What really matters for me in this case is what VW and BMW say.
If your car calls for API SN, let's say 0W20, putting 0W40 ACEA A3/B3 B4 might create issues, increase MPG etc.
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If you stick to Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4, I hardly think you'll have a problem.
Originally Posted By: Garak
If you stick to Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4, I hardly think you'll have a problem.
0W40 is same formula just bit heavier.
I am waiting day when Castrol brings 0W30 LL-04 to the States.
If you stick to Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4, I hardly think you'll have a problem.
0W40 is same formula just bit heavier.
I am waiting day when Castrol brings 0W30 LL-04 to the States.
He's been using the 0w-30 for forever and a day, so that's what I was teasing him about.
That way, at least, you have little reason to change. The 0w-40, however, is at least in more cost effective container sizes. But, at one time here, too, there were no A3/B4 lubes in jugs, all in one litre bottles, and GC was the easiest too find. Heck, it still is the easiest to find.
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