Pirelli dealers refusing to honor warranty.
- Thread starter IveBeenRued
- Start date
- Status
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
I guess the lesson learned here is to buy from a reputable tire dealer, such as Discount Tire.
One of my General Altimax RT43s turned out to be defective after almost a year, took it into Discount Tire several times since they were rotating tires all around trying to determine which is the bad one, they ordered me a new one and it cost me $16 for a new warranty.
One of my General Altimax RT43s turned out to be defective after almost a year, took it into Discount Tire several times since they were rotating tires all around trying to determine which is the bad one, they ordered me a new one and it cost me $16 for a new warranty.
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I guess the lesson learned here is to buy from a reputable tire dealer, such as Discount Tire...
That's the lesson I take from it. IME, this situation would have been dealt with in a satisfactory and timely manner had the tires been purchased from DT and subsequently returned there if needed. I'm sure there are other places too but as I only buy from DT now, can only speak to them. My.02
I guess the lesson learned here is to buy from a reputable tire dealer, such as Discount Tire...
That's the lesson I take from it. IME, this situation would have been dealt with in a satisfactory and timely manner had the tires been purchased from DT and subsequently returned there if needed. I'm sure there are other places too but as I only buy from DT now, can only speak to them. My.02
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Which only means they wrote the biggest check.
Which means nothing, because they still get told what to produce and what performance specifications they must meet. Many other tire companies would not be interested in the headaches that go with writing "the biggest check."
Which only means they wrote the biggest check.
Which means nothing, because they still get told what to produce and what performance specifications they must meet. Many other tire companies would not be interested in the headaches that go with writing "the biggest check."
Originally Posted By: Cressida
Most consumers, including myself, would have dismissed the tire problems after the first replacement to be something else and would have just lived with this problem. Perhaps a bad CV axle joint, tire rod end, brake rotor, etc. That would be easy to do since these Pirelli tires have such great reviews on many sites - so "it must just be my car" and why spend more money trying to prove it's really their problem?
After learning of this example back in February, I started focusing on other options besides the Pirelli's and have indeed purchased two sets of tires within the past month. This type of documented problem points to an internal quality control issue at Pirelli so I decided not to chance it myself and just went with another brand instead. I appreciate the OP sharing about this experience.
Exactly this. But even worse is the fact that after getting a second defective tire most shops would then just accuse you of having a bad part. Pirelli tried that with me on the phone. They tried immediately saying that it was probably my wheel (several people on here attempted the same accusation). Luckily the dealer examined the wheel and appeared to have an extreme hatred for Pirelli so they were more than willing to keep going through with a third warranty claim.
I am glad that my horrible experience has helped you in your tire buying decisions.
Most consumers, including myself, would have dismissed the tire problems after the first replacement to be something else and would have just lived with this problem. Perhaps a bad CV axle joint, tire rod end, brake rotor, etc. That would be easy to do since these Pirelli tires have such great reviews on many sites - so "it must just be my car" and why spend more money trying to prove it's really their problem?
After learning of this example back in February, I started focusing on other options besides the Pirelli's and have indeed purchased two sets of tires within the past month. This type of documented problem points to an internal quality control issue at Pirelli so I decided not to chance it myself and just went with another brand instead. I appreciate the OP sharing about this experience.
Exactly this. But even worse is the fact that after getting a second defective tire most shops would then just accuse you of having a bad part. Pirelli tried that with me on the phone. They tried immediately saying that it was probably my wheel (several people on here attempted the same accusation). Luckily the dealer examined the wheel and appeared to have an extreme hatred for Pirelli so they were more than willing to keep going through with a third warranty claim.
I am glad that my horrible experience has helped you in your tire buying decisions.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Which only means they wrote the biggest check.
Which means nothing, because they still get told what to produce and what performance specifications they must meet. Many other tire companies would not be interested in the headaches that go with writing "the biggest check."
Most any company can meet great specs for a high profile product. Its seen as investment and advertisement and generally is allowed a huge budget and rigorous manufacturing and quality standards. How does that compare to the standards they adhere to for everyday consumer products? IMO, it means nothing. I don't think Sunoco gas is the best because it the "official gas of Nascar".
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Which only means they wrote the biggest check.
Which means nothing, because they still get told what to produce and what performance specifications they must meet. Many other tire companies would not be interested in the headaches that go with writing "the biggest check."
Most any company can meet great specs for a high profile product. Its seen as investment and advertisement and generally is allowed a huge budget and rigorous manufacturing and quality standards. How does that compare to the standards they adhere to for everyday consumer products? IMO, it means nothing. I don't think Sunoco gas is the best because it the "official gas of Nascar".
Is there any tire development going on in NASCAR? Competition might help there but it seems NASCAR isn't interested in better tires. The cars are undertired as it is and they don't make an exception for size for road races, which is the only aspect I'm interested in. Yes suh, turning BOTH ways, and slowin' down, too.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Is there any tire development going on in NASCAR? Competition might help there but it seems NASCAR isn't interested in better tires. The cars are undertired as it is and they don't make an exception for size for road races, which is the only aspect I'm interested in. Yes suh, turning BOTH ways, and slowin' down, too.
Or, more succinctly
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Is there any development going on in NASCAR?
NASCAR is a spec series, so they dictate the specs of the tire.
They're supposed to be "about the driver and not about the car" so the engineering doesn't matter at all. Remember, it took them until 2012 just to use fuel injection
Is there any tire development going on in NASCAR? Competition might help there but it seems NASCAR isn't interested in better tires. The cars are undertired as it is and they don't make an exception for size for road races, which is the only aspect I'm interested in. Yes suh, turning BOTH ways, and slowin' down, too.
Or, more succinctly
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Is there any development going on in NASCAR?
NASCAR is a spec series, so they dictate the specs of the tire.
They're supposed to be "about the driver and not about the car" so the engineering doesn't matter at all. Remember, it took them until 2012 just to use fuel injection
Originally Posted By: dcf
I think all tires are junk . I have a set of General Altimax RT43s that are down to the wear bars at 21k . Tire warrantys are a joke . Never got the rebate from them either . They said they have no record of it . I'm done with that company.
I don't have experience with General Tire so I have no comment on your problems.
Regarding tire manufacture rebate and tread life warranty my experiences are as follow:
I submitted rebates when I bought tires from AT(America Tires) in So Cal(DT(Discount Tire) elsewhere) online I never had any problem, I received all AT rebates on time(within 5-6 weeks).
I submitted manufacture rebate for Cooper, Kumho, Contnental ... and didn't have any problem either, all rebates came within 4-8 weeks.
Tread life warranty, no problem with AT either. It was a painless process claiming tread life warranty with AT. I think no receipt is needed, AT has all records and they would calculate prorate fairly for me to buy any brand I like.
You may like to change tire store so you may get better service.
I think all tires are junk . I have a set of General Altimax RT43s that are down to the wear bars at 21k . Tire warrantys are a joke . Never got the rebate from them either . They said they have no record of it . I'm done with that company.
I don't have experience with General Tire so I have no comment on your problems.
Regarding tire manufacture rebate and tread life warranty my experiences are as follow:
I submitted rebates when I bought tires from AT(America Tires) in So Cal(DT(Discount Tire) elsewhere) online I never had any problem, I received all AT rebates on time(within 5-6 weeks).
I submitted manufacture rebate for Cooper, Kumho, Contnental ... and didn't have any problem either, all rebates came within 4-8 weeks.
Tread life warranty, no problem with AT either. It was a painless process claiming tread life warranty with AT. I think no receipt is needed, AT has all records and they would calculate prorate fairly for me to buy any brand I like.
You may like to change tire store so you may get better service.
Originally Posted By: dlayman
Most any company can meet great specs for a high profile product. Its seen as investment and advertisement and generally is allowed a huge budget and rigorous manufacturing and quality standards. How does that compare to the standards they adhere to for everyday consumer products? IMO, it means nothing. I don't think Sunoco gas is the best because it the "official gas of Nascar".
I don't mean that Pirelli is the best simply because they provide F1 with tires. I'm just pointing out that doing so requires a huge investment in time, money, R&D, and headaches. Certainly, some tire companies likely wouldn't want to justify it financially, and many others wouldn't want the headache.
I don't think any tire manufacturer in any motorsport gets raked over the coals as much as whomever has the [mis]fortune to supply F1. They make bespoke tires to a specification, and when something goes wrong, regardless of the fault, they get blamed, and they get publicly scrutinized every race, to the point that Paul Hembry is a household name among F1 fans.
dcf: I'd agree that tire warranties aren't worth the paper they're printed on. My Michelins just recently wore out, or close enough. They lasted longer than the warranty indicated, but, to me, that was a good guideline, rather than a warranty. Their warranty actually required rotation every 10,000 km at an approved tire shop. Home rotations would not be considered acceptable. What I saved on shop rotations was worth half the cost of a new set of tires.
I'm not blowing half a morning getting a tire rotation done when I can do it myself, and know that I torqued the lug nuts properly. By the way, do tire shops actually own tire pressure gauges these days? The last three sets of tires I bought, when installed, were all grossly overinflated, and that was at two different shops. How hard is it to read a door placard and grab a tire gauge?
Most any company can meet great specs for a high profile product. Its seen as investment and advertisement and generally is allowed a huge budget and rigorous manufacturing and quality standards. How does that compare to the standards they adhere to for everyday consumer products? IMO, it means nothing. I don't think Sunoco gas is the best because it the "official gas of Nascar".
I don't mean that Pirelli is the best simply because they provide F1 with tires. I'm just pointing out that doing so requires a huge investment in time, money, R&D, and headaches. Certainly, some tire companies likely wouldn't want to justify it financially, and many others wouldn't want the headache.
I don't think any tire manufacturer in any motorsport gets raked over the coals as much as whomever has the [mis]fortune to supply F1. They make bespoke tires to a specification, and when something goes wrong, regardless of the fault, they get blamed, and they get publicly scrutinized every race, to the point that Paul Hembry is a household name among F1 fans.
dcf: I'd agree that tire warranties aren't worth the paper they're printed on. My Michelins just recently wore out, or close enough. They lasted longer than the warranty indicated, but, to me, that was a good guideline, rather than a warranty. Their warranty actually required rotation every 10,000 km at an approved tire shop. Home rotations would not be considered acceptable. What I saved on shop rotations was worth half the cost of a new set of tires.
I'm not blowing half a morning getting a tire rotation done when I can do it myself, and know that I torqued the lug nuts properly. By the way, do tire shops actually own tire pressure gauges these days? The last three sets of tires I bought, when installed, were all grossly overinflated, and that was at two different shops. How hard is it to read a door placard and grab a tire gauge?
Quote:
I think all tires are junk . I have a set of General Altimax RT43s that are down to the wear bars at 21k . Tire warrantys are a joke .....
Looking at your display location this likely does you no good. That said, IME had you purchased said RT43's at Discount Tire and had them regularly rotated/balanced, DT would have given you a nice pro-ration adjustment towards a new set of tires. I've had them do that for me on set of Yoko YK520s that didn't get near their treadwear rating. I think the tire retailer is most responsible for making any treadwear adjustments, so purchasing from a reputable one is important.
As for the noted rotations/balance, I've rarely spent more than 30-45 mins. to get that service done at DT. Plus all lugs torqued to spec is SOP.
I think all tires are junk . I have a set of General Altimax RT43s that are down to the wear bars at 21k . Tire warrantys are a joke .....
Looking at your display location this likely does you no good. That said, IME had you purchased said RT43's at Discount Tire and had them regularly rotated/balanced, DT would have given you a nice pro-ration adjustment towards a new set of tires. I've had them do that for me on set of Yoko YK520s that didn't get near their treadwear rating. I think the tire retailer is most responsible for making any treadwear adjustments, so purchasing from a reputable one is important.
As for the noted rotations/balance, I've rarely spent more than 30-45 mins. to get that service done at DT. Plus all lugs torqued to spec is SOP.
Allow me to explain tire warranties:
1) Tread wear: Most tire wear occurs in the cornering mode. Make more turns per mile than your neighbor and your neighbor will get more miles out of his tires.
The effect is dramatic! When I was testing tires in fleets, I've seen some tires not deliver 10K miles and the same tire deliver over 100K! It all depends on how much cornering is done.
So why have wear warranties? Because tire dealers need to have some basis of comparison.
For some reason that I don't understand, the average guy won't get the miles the treadwear warranty says. This is not to say there aren't people who will get that mileage - It's just that those folks are rare.
Plus, treadwear is affected by vehicle alignment. If a vehicle with a perfect alignment will get X miles before the tire wear out, one that is only slightly out (but within tolerance) might only get 75% of that!
Not to mention, that the front tires on a FWD wear 2 1/2 times faster than the rear tires.
2) Vibration - the subject of this thread: That part of the warranty only applies to new tires - because it is possible to wear a vibration into a tire through misalignment.
3) Cracking: There is generally a time limit on the order of 4 years for cracking - since cracking is used as a gauge of how well the tire is aging - even though thise isn't reliable for some tire manufacturers.
4) Road hazards: Some tire manufacturers offer RH warranties, some don't. Some dealers offer RH warranties, either free or at extra cost - some don't. It's not always obvious who is offering the warranty.
5) Structural integrity: Generally until the tire is worn out.
6) Dealers: The way dealers handle warranty is all over the map. If you read from the beginning of this thread, the problem was that the tire were ordered over the internet, so the dealer who had to deal with the warranty wasn't inclined to help the OP. Tire manufacturers can't force a dealer to handle a warranty claim.
Discount Tire / America's Tire see warranty work as an opportunity to impress a customer, and they generally will bend over backwards to help. Most tire dealers don't see things that way.
So some customers will get a break from a tire dealer and those customers may think they got warranty coverage when in reality, the dealer did some "customer satisfaction".
This particular thread is about an unfortunate situation that could have been handled much better than it was (and if I am reading this correctly, still hasn't quite reached the finishline!)
1) Tread wear: Most tire wear occurs in the cornering mode. Make more turns per mile than your neighbor and your neighbor will get more miles out of his tires.
The effect is dramatic! When I was testing tires in fleets, I've seen some tires not deliver 10K miles and the same tire deliver over 100K! It all depends on how much cornering is done.
So why have wear warranties? Because tire dealers need to have some basis of comparison.
For some reason that I don't understand, the average guy won't get the miles the treadwear warranty says. This is not to say there aren't people who will get that mileage - It's just that those folks are rare.
Plus, treadwear is affected by vehicle alignment. If a vehicle with a perfect alignment will get X miles before the tire wear out, one that is only slightly out (but within tolerance) might only get 75% of that!
Not to mention, that the front tires on a FWD wear 2 1/2 times faster than the rear tires.
2) Vibration - the subject of this thread: That part of the warranty only applies to new tires - because it is possible to wear a vibration into a tire through misalignment.
3) Cracking: There is generally a time limit on the order of 4 years for cracking - since cracking is used as a gauge of how well the tire is aging - even though thise isn't reliable for some tire manufacturers.
4) Road hazards: Some tire manufacturers offer RH warranties, some don't. Some dealers offer RH warranties, either free or at extra cost - some don't. It's not always obvious who is offering the warranty.
5) Structural integrity: Generally until the tire is worn out.
6) Dealers: The way dealers handle warranty is all over the map. If you read from the beginning of this thread, the problem was that the tire were ordered over the internet, so the dealer who had to deal with the warranty wasn't inclined to help the OP. Tire manufacturers can't force a dealer to handle a warranty claim.
Discount Tire / America's Tire see warranty work as an opportunity to impress a customer, and they generally will bend over backwards to help. Most tire dealers don't see things that way.
So some customers will get a break from a tire dealer and those customers may think they got warranty coverage when in reality, the dealer did some "customer satisfaction".
This particular thread is about an unfortunate situation that could have been handled much better than it was (and if I am reading this correctly, still hasn't quite reached the finishline!)
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
Allow me to explain tire warranties:
1) Tread wear: Most tire wear occurs in the cornering mode. Make more turns per mile than your neighbor and your neighbor will get more miles out of his tires.
The effect is dramatic! When I was testing tires in fleets, I've seen some tires not deliver 10K miles and the same tire deliver over 100K! It all depends on how much cornering is done.
So why have wear warranties? Because tire dealers need to have some basis of comparison.
For some reason that I don't understand, the average guy won't get the miles the treadwear warranty says. This is not to say there aren't people who will get that mileage - It's just that those folks are rare.
Plus, treadwear is affected by vehicle alignment. If a vehicle with a perfect alignment will get X miles before the tire wear out, one that is only slightly out (but within tolerance) might only get 75% of that!
Not to mention, that the front tires on a FWD wear 2 1/2 times faster than the rear tires.
For some reason, I've always found the treadwear warranty to be pretty close to what I get on tires. I take them down to about 3/32" though. A lot of people won't do that. And I've always driven fairly light cars (Honda civic, etc). I never go crazy on rotations either, 10k is usually the shortest interval I'll do, and I've often gone double or triple that mileage. I don't do alignements with installation, only if I bump a curb or something else suggests a problem. Even my OEM Firestones on my Civic (which apparently don't have a treadwear warranty as OEM, but have a 50,000 mile warranty as an aftermarket tire) are going to make it to right about 50k. I've also had 90k Michelins actually make it to 90k. I drive mainly highway miles, so I probably do less cornering than most.
Allow me to explain tire warranties:
1) Tread wear: Most tire wear occurs in the cornering mode. Make more turns per mile than your neighbor and your neighbor will get more miles out of his tires.
The effect is dramatic! When I was testing tires in fleets, I've seen some tires not deliver 10K miles and the same tire deliver over 100K! It all depends on how much cornering is done.
So why have wear warranties? Because tire dealers need to have some basis of comparison.
For some reason that I don't understand, the average guy won't get the miles the treadwear warranty says. This is not to say there aren't people who will get that mileage - It's just that those folks are rare.
Plus, treadwear is affected by vehicle alignment. If a vehicle with a perfect alignment will get X miles before the tire wear out, one that is only slightly out (but within tolerance) might only get 75% of that!
Not to mention, that the front tires on a FWD wear 2 1/2 times faster than the rear tires.
For some reason, I've always found the treadwear warranty to be pretty close to what I get on tires. I take them down to about 3/32" though. A lot of people won't do that. And I've always driven fairly light cars (Honda civic, etc). I never go crazy on rotations either, 10k is usually the shortest interval I'll do, and I've often gone double or triple that mileage. I don't do alignements with installation, only if I bump a curb or something else suggests a problem. Even my OEM Firestones on my Civic (which apparently don't have a treadwear warranty as OEM, but have a 50,000 mile warranty as an aftermarket tire) are going to make it to right about 50k. I've also had 90k Michelins actually make it to 90k. I drive mainly highway miles, so I probably do less cornering than most.
Originally Posted By: dcf
I think all tires are junk . I have a set of General Altimax RT43s that are down to the wear bars at 21k . Tire warrantys are a joke . Never got the rebate from them either . They said they have no record of it . I'm done with that company.
Really curious to know your rotation schedule on those as the RT43 is the tire I'm considering. I've never had to make a tire warranty claim.. saw a new Roadtour tire from Hercules that has a 85K mile warranty which really surprises me. I'm considering it despite there being no reviews for it yet.
I think all tires are junk . I have a set of General Altimax RT43s that are down to the wear bars at 21k . Tire warrantys are a joke . Never got the rebate from them either . They said they have no record of it . I'm done with that company.
Really curious to know your rotation schedule on those as the RT43 is the tire I'm considering. I've never had to make a tire warranty claim.. saw a new Roadtour tire from Hercules that has a 85K mile warranty which really surprises me. I'm considering it despite there being no reviews for it yet.
Originally Posted By: SR20DE
I've never had to make a tire warranty claim.. saw a new Roadtour tire from Hercules that has a 85K mile warranty which really surprises me. I'm considering it despite there being no reviews for it yet.
My experience with the Hercules Roadtour tire was less than ideal and the dealer wouldn't stand behind the product. Perhaps they have updated this tire line but I doubt I will use them again
See the picture here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3698536/Re:_Hercules_Tour_4.0_Plus_rev#Post3698536
I've never had to make a tire warranty claim.. saw a new Roadtour tire from Hercules that has a 85K mile warranty which really surprises me. I'm considering it despite there being no reviews for it yet.
My experience with the Hercules Roadtour tire was less than ideal and the dealer wouldn't stand behind the product. Perhaps they have updated this tire line but I doubt I will use them again
See the picture here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3698536/Re:_Hercules_Tour_4.0_Plus_rev#Post3698536
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
For some reason that I don't understand, the average guy won't get the miles the treadwear warranty says. This is not to say there aren't people who will get that mileage - It's just that those folks are rare.
Well, that fits my experience. Much of my driving is in a straight line, with very little done within the city and involving a bunch of turning (especially compared to the taxi days). And, I do pay attention to my alignment. The Michelins exceeded their tread wear warranty, so I cannot complain.
I'm red faced though, because the Infiniti dealer put nitrogen in my tires. At least they didn't use the green caps and they don't charge for it, which I think is a first for Canada. Had they charged, I would have tore them a new one. Instead of investing in a nitrogen machine, though, they should get a few tire pressure gauges to check pressures after installs.
Anecdotally, at least here, I notice that RH warranties are less common than they used to be. When I was a kid buying blems, the tire dealer would offer RH warranty as a matter of course. Clearly, that would be a dealer issue rather than something from the tire manufacturer. These days, it just seems rarer, and I have no RH warranty on my new set of Yokohamas.
For some reason that I don't understand, the average guy won't get the miles the treadwear warranty says. This is not to say there aren't people who will get that mileage - It's just that those folks are rare.
Well, that fits my experience. Much of my driving is in a straight line, with very little done within the city and involving a bunch of turning (especially compared to the taxi days). And, I do pay attention to my alignment. The Michelins exceeded their tread wear warranty, so I cannot complain.
I'm red faced though, because the Infiniti dealer put nitrogen in my tires. At least they didn't use the green caps and they don't charge for it, which I think is a first for Canada. Had they charged, I would have tore them a new one. Instead of investing in a nitrogen machine, though, they should get a few tire pressure gauges to check pressures after installs.
Anecdotally, at least here, I notice that RH warranties are less common than they used to be. When I was a kid buying blems, the tire dealer would offer RH warranty as a matter of course. Clearly, that would be a dealer issue rather than something from the tire manufacturer. These days, it just seems rarer, and I have no RH warranty on my new set of Yokohamas.
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
For some reason that I don't understand, the average guy won't get the miles the treadwear warranty says. This is not to say there aren't people who will get that mileage - It's just that those folks are rare.
These cars are known to murder tires in no time: All 4 corners of MB E430, Rear tires of Acura NSX and Honda S2000.
My E430 killed a set in less than 20k miles with 5-6k miles rotation, the OEM was Goodyear Eagle F1 gone in less than 14k miles.
The rear tire of my S2000 is gone in between 8k miles and 12k miles. Even with 30-40k miles tread life warranty tires.
I hear NSX rear tires didn't lasted more than 5-6k miles.
For some reason that I don't understand, the average guy won't get the miles the treadwear warranty says. This is not to say there aren't people who will get that mileage - It's just that those folks are rare.
These cars are known to murder tires in no time: All 4 corners of MB E430, Rear tires of Acura NSX and Honda S2000.
My E430 killed a set in less than 20k miles with 5-6k miles rotation, the OEM was Goodyear Eagle F1 gone in less than 14k miles.
The rear tire of my S2000 is gone in between 8k miles and 12k miles. Even with 30-40k miles tread life warranty tires.
I hear NSX rear tires didn't lasted more than 5-6k miles.
There is no way I would ever, ever, ever go through that amount of [censored] and phone calls and all that for the cost of 1 tire. I'd cut my losses and move on. Crazy.
As long as they make it in the size I need, Michelin will be getting my money till the day my kids take my license.
As long as they make it in the size I need, Michelin will be getting my money till the day my kids take my license.
Last edited:
- Status
