Need some input...VW 1.8TSI

[surfstar]

I plan on M1 0w40 and also a BITOG throwback to LC20, starting at 10k miles. LC20 should help the oil make it to 10k and *could* help with carbon deposit issues.

I'm also running RLI Bio-Syn at 1oz per tank.

Preventative care for carbon issues that we might not even have, but LC20 and the RLI are quite cheap to run (cheaper than going low SAPs and 5k intervals, as I bought M1 on rebate).

 

[VeeDubb]

Another preventive care against carbon buildup is occasional italian tune-ups. 4000 rpm or higher for about 20 minutes.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: harrydog
Originally Posted By: BobFout
FWIW BTLew81, once my GTI is out of warranty, it's going to be Redline oil all the way.

Will it be the 5W30?


The Euro 5w30 and/or Euro 5w40. I do have some of the 'regular' 5w30 and 5w40 to use too.

 

[BTLew81]

With our fuel quality improving soon, lower saps oils should cause less concern about TBN depletion over longer oci...good news.

 

[VR6OOM]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
.... However, considering sulfur in gas, I would just get Castrol 0W40, at least until 01/01/2017 when EPA will mandate 10ppm of sulfur in gas.


Wouldn't this only matter when fuel is detected in the oil in a UOA?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: VR6OOM
Originally Posted By: edyvw
.... However, considering sulfur in gas, I would just get Castrol 0W40, at least until 01/01/2017 when EPA will mandate 10ppm of sulfur in gas.


Wouldn't this only matter when fuel is detected in the oil in a UOA?

DI engines dilute oil with fuel as part of normal operating procedure.
Small amount of fuel will be washed down by piston rings.

 

[kschachn]

Doesn't it have more to do with the products of combustion, namely the ash?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Doesn't it have more to do with the products of combustion, namely the ash?

Do not understand this? Is this referred to my post?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Doesn't it have more to do with the products of combustion, namely the ash?

Do not understand this? Is this referred to my post?


Yes, sorry. I didn't think the problem with sulfur was because the oil came in contact with the fuel, it was instead due to the products of combustion. It was supposed to be mostly a question.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Doesn't it have more to do with the products of combustion, namely the ash?

Do not understand this? Is this referred to my post?


Yes, sorry. I didn't think the problem with sulfur was because the oil came in contact with the fuel, it was instead due to the products of combustion. It was supposed to be mostly a question.

The problem is that fuel in the U.S. has high level of sulfur (issue digested her numerous times) and it is depleting TBN. This should be solved with new EPA ruling.
So you need High-SAPS oil unless you want to dramatically shorten OCI using current gas. As for SAPS and combustion, yes, it is a problem in DI engines using high-SAPS oil. But that is just one part of the problem. Problem is also city driving regime, VW poorly designed intake manifold etc.

 

[kschachn]

Yeah okay but it's not depleting the TBN by coming in contact with the fuel, is it? It's because it's coming in contact with the products of combustion.

 

[BTLew81]

Right...and less Sulfur in the gas produces fewer of these byproducts that deplete TBN. Look at Low SAPS and Europe.

Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Yeah okay but it's not depleting the TBN by coming in contact with the fuel, is it? It's because it's coming in contact with the products of combustion.

Piston rings will pull some small fraction of fuel down, especially when you do cold start. It is DI, it injects fuel under high pressure directly into chamber. Short trips, where engines do not run some time on operating temperatures to evaporate that fuel, will actually have noticeable amount of fuel in the oil (above 2%). First versions of TFSI engines had that fuel dilution issue. You can find those UOA in UOA section. That is why some people were running Shell T6 etc. that were thicker 5W40 oils to fight that problem. So, we are talking about fuel not combustion products. Diesel have same issue (sometimes if you run a lot in the city, in diesel you can see on dipstick increase in oil level). However, diesel fuel is actually oil (still not good for engine, but much less problems then gas).
EU has different burn (lean burn) compared to stratified burn in the U.S. On top of that in EU gas is up to 10ppm of sulfur for A LONG time. Also, in EU people do much more long driving then in the U.S. (actually BMW engineers explained about this problem as why they see some problems in the U.S. and not in EU).
Solution is not only good oil. It is running car hard and on a long trips to prevent these issues.
If you use car 3 miles to work and back get Toyota Camry.

 

[kschachn]

I guess I'm still confused. In this exchange:

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: VR6OOM
Originally Posted By: edyvw
.... However, considering sulfur in gas, I would just get Castrol 0W40, at least until 01/01/2017 when EPA will mandate 10ppm of sulfur in gas.

Wouldn't this only matter when fuel is detected in the oil in a UOA?

DI engines dilute oil with fuel as part of normal operating procedure.
Small amount of fuel will be washed down by piston rings.


I read it to make a link between fuel dilution and TBN depletion caused by sulfur compounds. I just didn't see how the sulfur in fuel would be active enough to cause an effect as opposed to that which is in the products of combustion (SO2, SO3).

 

[Benedikt]

Same kind of 2016 Passat 1.8TSI, similar question:
I'd been using M1 0w40 (which on the current bottles says "meets VW 502 and 505") in its otherwise identical predecessor, and was planning on using it in this one too (in fact, I just replaced the mystery factory fill with it).

Going to pick up oil for our 2012 TDI (needs 507) from the dealer, I find that instead of Castrol LL03 for $8.something, they now stock M1 ESP 5w30 for 6.80, which I was vaguely aware of but had never seen on a store shelf. On the bottle, it says it also meets VW 504.

So per spec, either one of these would work for the TSI. Southern weather here; the extremes are several months of rare low 100s, and a couple of months with frequent frost but rarely below 20.

The price difference is less than $20, and both are conveniently available without worrying about shipping. Given the always-on turbo setup, I intend to run shorter OCIs.

(Interestingly, the ESP bottles are 1l, labeled in English and German only, and no indication of origin - but they are not VW-labeled like the Castrol was.)

Is one better than the other for this engine?
If they're about the same, does mixing make sense? 5-qt jug of 0w40 from WM and the last 1-1.5 qts from quart bottles of ESP 5w30 would be a convenience compromise between pouring it in the car and pouring old oil back into the bottles.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted By: Benedikt
Same kind of 2016 Passat 1.8TSI, similar question:
I'd been using M1 0w40 (which on the current bottles says "meets VW 502 and 505") in its otherwise identical predecessor, and was planning on using it in this one too (in fact, I just replaced the mystery factory fill with it).

Going to pick up oil for our 2012 TDI (needs 507) from the dealer, I find that instead of Castrol LL03 for $8.something, they now stock M1 ESP 5w30 for 6.80, which I was vaguely aware of but had never seen on a store shelf. On the bottle, it says it also meets VW 504.

So per spec, either one of these would work for the TSI. Southern weather here; the extremes are several months of rare low 100s, and a couple of months with frequent frost but rarely below 20.

The price difference is less than $20, and both are conveniently available without worrying about shipping. Given the always-on turbo setup, I intend to run shorter OCIs.

(Interestingly, the ESP bottles are 1l, labeled in English and German only, and no indication of origin - but they are not VW-labeled like the Castrol was.)

Is one better than the other for this engine?
If they're about the same, does mixing make sense? 5-qt jug of 0w40 from WM and the last 1-1.5 qts from quart bottles of ESP 5w30 would be a convenience compromise between pouring it in the car and pouring old oil back into the bottles.



I would keep using the 0W-40 on the 10k/1yr interval that VW specifies.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Benedikt
Same kind of 2016 Passat 1.8TSI, similar question:
I'd been using M1 0w40 (which on the current bottles says "meets VW 502 and 505") in its otherwise identical predecessor, and was planning on using it in this one too (in fact, I just replaced the mystery factory fill with it).

Going to pick up oil for our 2012 TDI (needs 507) from the dealer, I find that instead of Castrol LL03 for $8.something, they now stock M1 ESP 5w30 for 6.80, which I was vaguely aware of but had never seen on a store shelf. On the bottle, it says it also meets VW 504.

So per spec, either one of these would work for the TSI. Southern weather here; the extremes are several months of rare low 100s, and a couple of months with frequent frost but rarely below 20.

The price difference is less than $20, and both are conveniently available without worrying about shipping. Given the always-on turbo setup, I intend to run shorter OCIs.

(Interestingly, the ESP bottles are 1l, labeled in English and German only, and no indication of origin - but they are not VW-labeled like the Castrol was.)

Is one better than the other for this engine?
If they're about the same, does mixing make sense? 5-qt jug of 0w40 from WM and the last 1-1.5 qts from quart bottles of ESP 5w30 would be a convenience compromise between pouring it in the car and pouring old oil back into the bottles.


Keep using M1 0W40 FS although my preference would be Castrol 0W40 in 1.8TSI
M1 5W30 ESP is really good oil, but until we move to Ultra low sulphur gas apparently on 01/01/2017, I would stay away from VW 504.00/507.00 oils.
I sue that oil primarily in my BMW diesel (Now use Valvoline just to try) and it is really good, but it is performing good in diesels in the U.S> since diesel fuel is low sulfur. I tried M1 5W30 ESP in my VW CC I had, and by 3K TBN was almost gone.
As for country of origin. Back label on the bottle can be pealed off (low right corner has marking that says to peel off) and will give you several sheets and languages such as Spanish, Polish, Croatian, Belgium, Italian, Dutch etc. Oil is packed for EU and it is Made either in France or Finland and imported in the U.S.

 

[VR6OOM]

Originally Posted By: BTLew81
Car is in my signature. I've got M1 0w40 in it now, but from some light reading, it looks like MAYBE the new formula is not as "strong" as it once was. So, I am considering some other possible options:

-Castrol 0w40 - Seems like it is well regarded here, but has higher SAPS like M1, which I would like to get away from
-Valvoline 5w40 MST - Like the lower SAPS, and should be fine, as I am running a 5k interval
-Kendall Euro 5w40 - Again, lower SAPS, good price

I'm also open to suggestions. Want to run an approved oil for the time being (warr), but perhaps I'll reconsider down the road.

Thanks for the input.


I just completed a 7700 mile OCI on mid saps total thats 502/505.01. They state I can take it out to 10k miles. UOA here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4186177#Post4186177

 

[Benedikt]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Benedikt
Same kind of 2016 Passat 1.8TSI, similar question:
I'd been using M1 0w40 (which on the current bottles says "meets VW 502 and 505") in its otherwise identical predecessor, and was planning on using it in this one too (in fact, I just replaced the mystery factory fill with it).

Going to pick up oil for our 2012 TDI (needs 507) from the dealer, I find that instead of Castrol LL03 for $8.something, they now stock M1 ESP 5w30 for 6.80, which I was vaguely aware of but had never seen on a store shelf. On the bottle, it says it also meets VW 504.

So per spec, either one of these would work for the TSI. Southern weather here; the extremes are several months of rare low 100s, and a couple of months with frequent frost but rarely below 20.

The price difference is less than $20, and both are conveniently available without worrying about shipping. Given the always-on turbo setup, I intend to run shorter OCIs.

(Interestingly, the ESP bottles are 1l, labeled in English and German only, and no indication of origin - but they are not VW-labeled like the Castrol was.)

Is one better than the other for this engine?
If they're about the same, does mixing make sense? 5-qt jug of 0w40 from WM and the last 1-1.5 qts from quart bottles of ESP 5w30 would be a convenience compromise between pouring it in the car and pouring old oil back into the bottles.


Keep using M1 0W40 FS although my preference would be Castrol 0W40 in 1.8TSI
M1 5W30 ESP is really good oil, but until we move to Ultra low sulphur gas apparently on 01/01/2017, I would stay away from VW 504.00/507.00 oils.
I sue that oil primarily in my BMW diesel (Now use Valvoline just to try) and it is really good, but it is performing good in diesels in the U.S. since diesel fuel is low sulfur. I tried M1 5W30 ESP in my VW CC I had, and by 3K TBN was almost gone.


Thanks. But do I understand correctly that at the cost of a 3k OCI (which I intend to do until 10k anyway, and two OCIs would last well past the ULS fuel introduction), M1 5W30 ESP would minimize carbon deposits?

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Benedikt
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Benedikt
Same kind of 2016 Passat 1.8TSI, similar question:
I'd been using M1 0w40 (which on the current bottles says "meets VW 502 and 505") in its otherwise identical predecessor, and was planning on using it in this one too (in fact, I just replaced the mystery factory fill with it).

Going to pick up oil for our 2012 TDI (needs 507) from the dealer, I find that instead of Castrol LL03 for $8.something, they now stock M1 ESP 5w30 for 6.80, which I was vaguely aware of but had never seen on a store shelf. On the bottle, it says it also meets VW 504.

So per spec, either one of these would work for the TSI. Southern weather here; the extremes are several months of rare low 100s, and a couple of months with frequent frost but rarely below 20.

The price difference is less than $20, and both are conveniently available without worrying about shipping. Given the always-on turbo setup, I intend to run shorter OCIs.

(Interestingly, the ESP bottles are 1l, labeled in English and German only, and no indication of origin - but they are not VW-labeled like the Castrol was.)

Is one better than the other for this engine?
If they're about the same, does mixing make sense? 5-qt jug of 0w40 from WM and the last 1-1.5 qts from quart bottles of ESP 5w30 would be a convenience compromise between pouring it in the car and pouring old oil back into the bottles.


Keep using M1 0W40 FS although my preference would be Castrol 0W40 in 1.8TSI
M1 5W30 ESP is really good oil, but until we move to Ultra low sulphur gas apparently on 01/01/2017, I would stay away from VW 504.00/507.00 oils.
I sue that oil primarily in my BMW diesel (Now use Valvoline just to try) and it is really good, but it is performing good in diesels in the U.S. since diesel fuel is low sulfur. I tried M1 5W30 ESP in my VW CC I had, and by 3K TBN was almost gone.


Thanks. But do I understand correctly that at the cost of a 3k OCI (which I intend to do until 10k anyway, and two OCIs would last well past the ULS fuel introduction), M1 5W30 ESP would minimize carbon deposits?

It should minimize carbon deposits, but there is more to it. Hard driving helps, Low NOACK helps (and M1 5W30 ESP apparently has ridiculously low NOACK). Also, it has to do with composition of additives, and I think Castrol is better there when it comes to depositions (NOT Castrol 5W40).