My UOA with Frantz TP Filter

[Jonzobot]

There aren't too many of these floating around so I thought I would contribute something. Here is a link to a UOA I got after installing a toilet paper filter. Particle count is 19/17/14. Wear looks to be very good.

I would have expected the particle count to be a bit better, but I did leave the toilet paper in for 10,000km (6,250 miles). A previous analysis on Castrol Syntec where I changed the TP at 5,000km revealed 18/16/13.

UOA

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I don't think I've ever seen a UOA of a TP filter!

Is that the only filtration you used?

 

[Jonzobot]

The TP filter was used in parallel with the OEM system; I have a Wix filter for the full-flow.

 

[CarbonSteel]

With that silicon reading, you can definitely tell that you had a leak. Have you had another UOA since the leak was fixed?

 

[carock]

Too many miles on the Frantz between filter changes! Try every 3000 miles.

 

[A310]

Please keep the oil reports coming. I recently got a deal on 2 nos Frantz and am planning to install one on my wife's 2007 jeep diesel and see how it compares to other bypass filters.
I agree with Carock, that the TP roll should be changed every 3000-5000 miles. This keeps the rolls fresh and the TBN up in your oil, so you might never have to change the oil again.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: carock
Too many miles on the Frantz between filter changes! Try every 3000 miles.


Originally Posted By: A310
Please keep the oil reports coming. I recently got a deal on 2 nos Frantz and am planning to install one on my wife's 2007 jeep diesel and see how it compares to other bypass filters.
I agree with Carock, that the TP roll should be changed every 3000-5000 miles. This keeps the rolls fresh and the TBN up in your oil, so you might never have to change the oil again.


Are you guys kidding? 3-5K?? That introduces a liter of new oil each time, plus he said his sump capacity was 3L! That means that every 3-5K he's replacing 1/3 to 1/4 of his oil, using expensive Amsoil oil each time. Not only that he's running a full-flow in conjunction with the TP filter. How is this filter doing anything at all with that amount of makeup, the top-shelf oil and the existing great full-flow? That's crazy that he's supposed to change the roll that often.

And "might never have to change the oil again"?? He's changing it every 9000 to 12,000 miles under your recommendation. That Amsoil oil could do that interval with just the Wix and his engine would never wear out.

 

[BrocLuno]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
That Amsoil oil could do that interval with just the Wix and his engine would never wear out.


Now there's a quote I have not heard since the Fair Grounds

 

[Jonzobot]

Yes that was a consideration. With 10,000km tp intervals I could notionally get ~40,000 km on a full cycle, which is pretty amazing (if the oil holds up). Also, this way I'm only using about a litre of oil per 10,000km and saving the other 2 from the environment. I do live in a winter city so my driving is more severe than not. I expect the next 10,000km to be not nearly as kind to the oil or the engine so we'll see what happens.

 

[Jonzobot]

Here's another thing. I feel that the 3000-5000 tp interval is for the typical application; e.g. large diesel trucks.

My small 1.5 litre gasser should produce far less contaminants and should logically go farther. (For instance, the Frantz website says a filter is good for up to an 8 litre sump. Mine is half that).

 

[Harley Anderson]

Jonzobot, I am changing my frantz filter at 5k miles or slightly above to combat makeup oil on a 5.7 litre motor. I am not seeing any reduced flow on the return line after 5k miles either.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Jonzobot
Here's another thing. I feel that the 3000-5000 tp interval is for the typical application; e.g. large diesel trucks.

My small 1.5 litre gasser should produce far less contaminants and should logically go farther. (For instance, the Frantz website says a filter is good for up to an 8 litre sump. Mine is half that).


Exactly, yes. That is why bypass filtration systems are not popular nor are (IMO) beneficial for gasoline engines. Gasoline engines produce far less soot than a diesel engine and have less sulfur in the fuel. My opinion is that it isn't the soot that gets you directly, but instead is the complex sulfur compounds adsorbed on the carbon particulate (along with moisture in the oil) that causes problems. As has been discussed on here before, I agree that by removing the particulate matter from diesel oil (and the attached sulfur compounds) you can indeed extend the life of the oil.

This is becoming less and less important though as the sulfur levels in diesel fuel are lowered. It's even less of a concern at the sulfur levels in gasoline, coupled with the much lower levels of soot.

 

[carock]

Back in the 60's Frantz was recommending filter changes between 2000-3000 miles. This means that you are effectively changing your oil as you drive along. Given what we know about tribology today, this continual oil change may be a big reason for using a bypass filter in your car. The continual oil change does not upset the oil like a fresh change does, and keeps the protective layer on metal surfaces intact. Changing all the oil at one time tends to strip the protective layer out according to the "new" theory of oil addititve protection. In the 60's Frantz had testimonials of gas engines with 300,000-400,000 miles on them. That was quite a bit over the average engine lifespan in those days.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: carock
Back in the 60's Frantz was recommending filter changes between 2000-3000 miles. This means that you are effectively changing your oil as you drive along. Given what we know about tribology today, this continual oil change may be a big reason for using a bypass filter in your car. The continual oil change does not upset the oil like a fresh change does, and keeps the protective layer on metal surfaces intact. Changing all the oil at one time tends to strip the protective layer out according to the "new" theory of oil addititve protection. In the 60's Frantz had testimonials of gas engines with 300,000-400,000 miles on them. That was quite a bit over the average engine lifespan in those days.


If I'm changing out the oil as I drive why do I need a bypass filter? What exactly is the filter doing in your scenario? Why not just drain out a quart every 3000 miles and replace it with fresh oil?

 

[carock]

You use a bypass filter to keep the oil clean. You add oil to a Frantz filter by 3000 miles. Mine takes just over 1/2 quart. Despite what you read elsewhere in these bypass filter threads, the filters really do make your engine last longer, providing nothing else knocks it out first, like a blown head gasket. The bypass filter is not just about making your oil last longer.
The bypass filter effectively makes your oil last longer. It also keeps the oil very clean the entire time you are running it. It also prevents the flush of wear particles that comes from changing all your oil at once. According to the latest tribology and plating theories expounded on this site, changing your oil actually causes more wear than leaving it in. My tests show no measureable increase after changing 15% of your sump oil, therefore the amount of oil added with a bypass filter change is not causing this accelerated wear that comes from adding 100% new oil. Go figure. I am not sure I am on board with this "new oil causes more wear" theory, but there is some convincing evidence behind it.
Anyway. there were older tests performed that showed engine wear is directly attributable to the weight of contaminate particles in the oil. So the more particles you keep out, the less wear you get. Better filtration equals longer life "all other things being equal". The filtration systems sold on cars these days are designed for "long enough life". If you want longer life you do what the big trucks do, you add better filtration and larger sumps.

 

[xtell]

I run Frantz Bypass filters for engine oil and transmission fluid on my landscaping / plow trucks. My trucks outlast other contractors equipment by decades. I attribute this to bypass filtration. If I can get a filter on on a fluid line - I put one on.