Oil Additive debate - if all are snake oil then...

[cmhj]

Originally Posted By: TheExpectorate
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Riqrat
Called my wife out to the garage and said "babe, you gotta check this out."

LOL! I would have gotten a blank stare if I asked my wife.

That's true love.

Mine would ask if I was sipping it.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Riqrat
What say you?


Have you tried the "hand to manifold" test yet? That test is as equally valid as the rest of your observations.

 

[Vikas]

I am willing to try a test next time.

I have Honda Odyssey too. I will take a glass and fill it up to a mark and then put on the engine while idling. I will video it and we can see how much liquid level vibrates.

I will redo this test after the additive has been added and the vehicle has driven say a week. I have already purchased the additive. Few of the respectable fellow (another) forum members have had great luck with that additive and swear by it. I finally gathered up enough courage to order it and have been saving it until the oil change time which is now due.

I will provide you objective proof one way or other.

 

[Quattro Pete]

How does an additive quiet an engine? By coating internal surfaces? If so, what happens to that coat over time? Does it vanish? Does it turn into some undesirable substance? Other?

 

[UltrafanUK]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
How does an additive quiet an engine? By coating internal surfaces? If so, what happens to that coat over time? Does it vanish? Does it turn into some undesirable substance? Other?



Most cheap oil additives just thicken the oil reducing engine noise to some extent. Ceratec which contains both Moly and a hexagonal form of Boron Nitride does fill in voids in bearings and add a coat of Moly, so some users say that can reduce noise.
All anti wear coatings wear out rather than vanish, although there is no evidence that they turn into anything undersirable .

 

[mbacfp]

Some interesting research on hexagonal boron nitride reducing wear and coefficient of friction. Especially seems to help in high pressure, high temperature environments. I am using in my turbo diesel application...anyone in the lubrication industry wish to comment on the real world implementation vs academic research? Thanks.

 

[southernjeeper]

Originally Posted By: Riqrat
This question has popped into mu head after reading and hearing many people make statements like:

"My engine is clearly quieter than it was."

"It runs much cooler."

"I notice less vibration..." "..my mirrors don't shake as much" "...you can now stand a coin on it and it does not fall."

"The oil is staying cleaner longer with the same filter and oil I've always used."

etc. etc.

Many say you only need to change your oil and filter every x miles and nothing else. If this is true, then why are others noticing the above? And no, this is not placebo.

I have a 2002 Honda Odyssey VTek 3.5 with 177k miles on it. The idling is insanely quiet and smooth for an engine of this miles that has travelled the country and carried large loads at times. This after I tried out an additive. Called my wife out to the garage and said "babe, you gotta check this out." It's her van. Too early to tell how long it will last like this but it clearly runs better right now than with just oil and I use high quality Shaeffer and Amsoil oils on our vehicles.

What say you?



Guess you are talking about me???

My dime. My truck.

I have been told by close friends that are mechanics and also seen my lower end of my engine myself to see how the bearings, and such are in great shape after what I use as my concoction. My mileage and power are great for an already torquey engine.

The really great mechanics that know engines might not being in a site speaking their truth about certain additives that do and do not work because they are making a good living if they are in the right area and shop to take the money like "candy from a baby" to fix your engine failure and other misc issues.

Thanks again for noticing my posts. I'm just letting some people online that it doesn't hurt to try. Trial and error.

What year, what kind of mileage, and where do you buy your low tier cheaper fuel at, ______?


The reason why I got to see my under my engine on a Cherokee was because the 4.0 are known notorious for having the rear main 2piece seal start to leak. When I had mine replaced it was at a bit over 200,000miles. I had the oil pump replaced and it has been a fun ride. Especially since I have had it for awhile since 90,000miles.

Kudos to you.

 

[southernjeeper]

For the Marvel Mystery Oil haters...

The company was founded in 1923. I think the man who founded the company knew something that haters that just do not know. Haha

It's cheap. It can be found just about anywhere. I say the founder and his children know what they are doing. Those were the days before ANY OF US were BORN.

If it worked for the men who fought in WWI and WWII to everything since then that was before most of the hoopla not good products that don't have a great reputation NOWadays for being no good.


I think it's good enough for fuel tanks to everything out of the exhaust pipe. Small engine stuff probably the better.

As for the oil. I would add it a little bit at a time to help with sludge. Then I have to point out that MOTOR FLUSH products that you add a lot of ounces into your crankcase I have heard is bad because it will loosen too much sludge possibly and clog oil passages and such. I messed up 6 years ago with doing just that. The product was the Gunk branded motor flush and I wonder exactly I might have done. But live and learn. I didn't find out til later it was probably a bad idea.

Wouldn't something like a flush be the same as adding the highly detergent of ATF to the oil? Though I have been told, by shade tree mechanics, that it maybe okay and perfectly fine for a neglected engine at SMALL DOSES if you plan on adding a flush type oil within a few 100 miles or more OR at just idling for 15mins or so to do a drain and refill soon after.

 

[UltrafanUK]

Using an oil flush at idle is far safer than using a drive around oil additive. The main reason is that if you block the oil filter at idle it will not do any significant harm over the 10 or 15 minutes the engine is in use, just before the oil & filter are changed. With a drive around flush it's a whole different story, particularly if the engine has a turbo.
I use Liqui Moly oil additives on occasion and would note that their PDS for their own drive around flush has a specific warning that if the engine is badly sludged, the sump should be removed and the oil pump intake screen cleaned first, also the revs should be kept low.

Any type of flush additive can make existing oil leaks worse for a while (Google false oil seal effect).

 

[SuperSalad]

Well its hard to top that. Once the infighting begins, the party really starts.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Using an oil flush at idle is far safer than using a drive around oil additive. The main reason is that if you block the oil filter at idle it will not do any significant harm over the 10 or 15 minutes the engine is in use, just before the oil & filter are changed. With a drive around flush it's a whole different story, particularly if the engine has a turbo.
I use Liqui Moly oil additives on occasion and would note that their PDS for their own drive around flush has a specific warning that if the engine is badly sludged, the sump should be removed and the oil pump intake screen cleaned first, also the revs should be kept low.


Doesn't a plugged oil filter go into bypass?

And a clogged pickup tube/screen is a whole different problem than a plugged filter.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: southernjeeper
For the Marvel Mystery Oil haters...

The company was founded in 1923. I think the man who founded the company knew something that haters that just do not know. Haha

Without slamming MMO, remember that it was invented at a time when non-detergent motor oils were the only game in town, and the product has remained essentially unchanged since then. It was addressing a problem that no longer exists. If I start running ND 30 in my cars, I may have to order up some MMO. Now, I don't have a lot of need.

ATF has a lot of detergents, does it? I thought this had been addressed here before, several times.

 

[UltrafanUK]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
Using an oil flush at idle is far safer than using a drive around oil additive. The main reason is that if you block the oil filter at idle it will not do any significant harm over the 10 or 15 minutes the engine is in use, just before the oil & filter are changed. With a drive around flush it's a whole different story, particularly if the engine has a turbo.
I use Liqui Moly oil additives on occasion and would note that their PDS for their own drive around flush has a specific warning that if the engine is badly sludged, the sump should be removed and the oil pump intake screen cleaned first, also the revs should be kept low.


Doesn't a plugged oil filter go into bypass?

And a clogged pickup tube/screen is a whole different problem than a plugged filter.


Yes a blocked filter does go into bypass and 15 minutes of unfiltered oil probably will not cause any significant harm, BUT it's a different story if you drive around for thousands of miles with a blocked oil filter that is stuck in bypass.
The same goes for a blocked oil pump intake, if you ran an engine at idle with no oil flow it would not be good in engine wear terms, but most blocks would survive 15 mins without failing. If you block up the oil pump intake after a drive around oil flush dislodges a serious amount of sludge and fail to notice the low oil pressure warning, it could well do some real damage. It's also worth considering that most oil flush additives also thin the oil, so any issues with reduced oil pressure or filtration will be more significant.

 

[Koz1]

Companies like LUBEGARD® make great products.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: Garak

ATF has a lot of detergents, does it? I thought this had been addressed here before, several times.


Used to have a lot of natural dispersency, I suppose... and a bit of detergency aswell

 

[Garak]

Yes, that's what I was getting at.

I remember as a teen, a friend of mine had an old Dodge truck, and someone convinced him to pour a litre of ATF down the carb while it was revving to help clean things out. I don't know how much "cleaning" it actually did, or where it "cleaned," but it was a calm night and a lot of smoke hung around, and he left a nice cloud when driving around to get the smoking cleared out subsequent to pouring it in.

 

[Revving2Redline]

I searched Wikipedia Marvel Mystery Oil and about half way down found a interesting story about the product. Some may laugh,some may cry,some will now buy and others wont try.
I struggle with additives that I like and even the ones I use regularly I use in half dosages for fear of what could happen as Arco has stories that kinda worry me, but also the mindset that if the entire amount works then half will take longer to work/half as good theory. I started with Pennzoil PurePlus and LM Mos2, LM Motor Oil Saver, and at the end Ceratec. These all did something that I feel was positive in some fashion or degree. Right now I am changing filter only at 60-40% OLM on 15 Civic and refilling filter with Lubegard Biotech. I think it has helped,I hope lol. Maybe the only other products I would try would be Archoil,Motul,or the old Valvoline SynPower Engine Treatment/Valvoline SynPower Oil Protectant(moly). I have used Neo Synthetic oil 10w30 in mid 2005 and while it ran well, it was more expensive than Redline Oil and wasnt readily available.