Appropriate oil for 24 Hours of LeMons

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Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
Glued ... since maximum durability is the key here and this kind of race is a pure torture test, I'm going to say use Red Line racing oil ... straight 30 or 40.

Too pricey? Use Schaeffer's Moly Bond X-200 in straight 30 or 40 weight:

http://www.schaefferoil.com/151_diesel_oil.html

Too hard to find? Try a HDEO (Heavy duty engine oil - for gas and diesel) in straight 30 or 40 weights ... Chevron Delo 400 or Pennzoil Long Life.

I don't think oil analysis will be helpful for this. I'd prep it as best you can for durability/survivability and use a straight 30 or 40 weight oil with high ZDDP, moly and/or boron levels.

Best of luck! Let us know how it turns out.


+1 three good recommendations there depending on price/availability.
 
As the prior owner of a Honda in SCCA racing of similar vintage:

these will work - use a Purolator PureOne or a Honda OEM - the rest have funky valving for this specific app;

Mobil 1 15W-50
Valvoline SynPower 15W-50
Valvoline Racing 20W-50
Pennzoil Platinum/ultra 15W-50
there are others that are more expensive that'll work

the reason being, when the RPMs are high and the radiator gets knocked out, you'll need the heat sink of the oil to stay intact.
 
It gets that rough out there during this event that he should expect to lose his radiator?!?
crazy2.gif
 
Hysterical article. I like this passage:

"So, what to enter? We kicked around the boffo idea of a Chevy Chevette, painted like the Le Mans class-winning Corvette C6.R — Vette wins Le Mans, Vette wins LeMons.

The problem is that so few of the little turds survived into the 21st century that they now have achieved the same sick collector status as clown paintings by John Wayne Gacy."


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Originally Posted By: Glued
I have a high-mileage (127K) Honda CRX that I am preparing for a Lemons race. I've been wondering what would be the most appropriate oil for this engine. I have no idea about it's current oil consumption as I have not driven it much. I've replaced the oil pan gasket and the valve cover gasket as they were somewhat hard and leaky.

Would an oil analysis give any helpful guidance in this regard?

Thank you for reading!


The standard oil for this car is a 10w-40 semi synthetic, however this is the standard oil for standard use. You are going to need something a bit more trick.

I've had a look and 15w-50 and 20w-50 are listed as alternatives for above -15 and -10 respectively and should give a good choice of fully synthetic lubes to choose from

i would look into

Elf
Redline
Motul
Amsoil
Mobil 1
 
Originally Posted By: LSpeed
Since you are running a stock engine configuration, stay away from race oils and high visc oils - they are likely to damage O2 sensors. You don't want the engine thinking it is too lean and dumping more fuel to the engine - bad fuel mileage. Since it is an endurance race minimizing time in the pits is key. The M1 10W-30 HM is a good choice - safe for O2's and low VM content helps shear stability.

O2 sensors only function at light throttle, unless running under the caution, there won't be much part throttle operation... It is racing after all...
 
A few of you said to let you know how we did. Sorry it has taken so long.

In the final standings we were 14 of 28. At the end of the first day, owing to penalties, brake, wheel, and throttle issues, we were in 22nd place so the second day's climb up the standings was gratifying and encouraging.

However, 18 minutes from the end of the 14 hour race we burned up a piston. No checkers for us.

We used Valvoline 10w-40. Oil consumption was a manageable one quart every three hours. Upon tearing down the engine, the bottom end looked amazing. The journals are all still within standard specs and straight as an arrow. The crank was covered in a yellow, waxy film. It came off easy enough in the Safety-Kleen tank.

The top end was another story. Warpage everywhere excessive wear on the cam followers and dark residue on top of the cylinder head.

The engine ran hot under throttle all weekend and I later determined this was due to a vacuum port on the carb not being plugged. When idling the motor cooled off quickly, but get in the throttle and it immediately began heating up. The vacuum port terminated above the throttle blades and it only provided vacuum when the throttle was opened beyond idle. The air flowing through this port did not provide a signal to any of the fuel metering circuits, in fact it likely weakened their signals. This created a lean condition that went undiagnosed all weekend. Then poof. 379 laps, 535 miles of abuse and THEN it burned up. That little Honda is tough.

Tom
 
I've done lemons twice now. one a 24 hour race, the other a 14 (7+7).

Our first motor lived a hard life and honestly none of us expected it to last very long. it managed till about 3AM (12 hours of racing give or take, 3 hours of penalties/repairs to the car). before it spun bearings bad enough that the noise was too much to drive. It never broke a rod but #1 and #2 rod bearings were toast and the oil pressure went away. We were using amsoil 15w40. Seemed to work well, and the engine had been making a "tapping"
noise (the bearings) since about hour number 3 of racing. I think it worked out to around 800 miles covered. We had no oil cooler and I feel strongly that this contributed to the engine failing early. When it came into the pits for the final time my laser temp gauge showed oil temps above 300F, hot enough to melt the paint on the oil pan.


Engine #2 was cherry and beautiful at the start of race #2. It still runs perfectly today and survived 14 hours of gingerman without an issue. We had added an oil cooler from a dodge SRT-4 (water type heat exchanger), and used the amsoil 15w40 again, and hooked up an oil cooler this time. I forgot to record (or even check) oil temps, unfortunately.

15W40 seems to be a reasonable weight to run, but I am guessing it really depends on what the bearing clearances and etc are before the race begins. I noticed you didn't post what weight oil you ended up using?
 
Seems like Brad Penn 20w50 would be an appropriate choice for this kind of racing, where a lot of protection for a little money is the important thing. I think it costs about $4.50/qt. Yeah, I know it's motor mud, but it will protect in situations where the oil pressure gets marginal and the engine may be overheating. The high viscosity may lose some power, but the important thing in Lemons endurance racing is to keep making laps.
 
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Its a honda, its gonna burn oil. I'd run a 10-40 or a 15-40 dino in it and hope for the best. If it really smokes at idle run a 2-50 super tech mud. Racing is ment too be fun, you dont need too drop 150 bucks just on oil.
 
I'd run a straight 40 Wt racing oil like BRAD PENN® PENN-GRADE 1®
SAE 40 HIGH PERFORMANCE OIL
This heavy viscosity straight-grade motor oil is designed to provide excellent protection for street and competition engines. The increased ZDDP provides outstanding antiwear/antiscuffing protection for engines with older style push rods as well as those employing flat tappet cams. Excellent option for vintage car lubricant and air-cooled applications where a mono-grade viscosity is preferred.
 
I know this is an old thread, but I thought I'd update things a bit. The engine was rebuilt using all stock parts. It seems to run fine. Installed an oil cooler to pull as much heat out of it as possible. Did a track day a few weeks back and noticed the engine coolant stayed steady at 212° and OP stayedat 55 psi or above. Both better and steadier numbers than before. Overfilled the oil to keep OP up in sustained turns. Seems to have worked. Wish I had OT gauge. For this test I used 10W40 conventional. Next race is likely on a hot day so will be testing beforehand with Brad Penn® 50W to see what it does to oil pressures. I'm using a rather large oil filter from a Ford V8 engine. Hoping extra media area will filter more junk and not restrict oil until I can change it at the end of the first day.
 
I would likely just use whatever 15W40 HDEO is on sale. I think you can usually find it around $11-$12 a gallon on sale.

Good Luck with the race!
 
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One more update, and what I learned about selecting an oil.

I had not raced the CRX since 2010, but this year I decided to make it to the Colorado race. In the past several years I continued to work on and test the car. Since the engine at least partly had a cooling issue I worked on that. I added: an oil cooler, air baffling to the radiator inside the nose, worked out how the car wanted to have its bypass coolant routed, and settled on a thermostat. I also made sure there were no vacuum leaks. All together, those efforts paid off. Temps never went over 200F after that.

Within the rules I did what I could to the suspension. Junkyard rear springs from a heavier car, stock rear shocks from another brand of Japanese car. I'm being vague here, because, well, I consider the specifics of these things secret. They took time and money to figure out. The front struts were wiped out and leaking so I just bought new OEM Monroe ones. No secrets on the front suspension except homemade upper strut mounts to get more negative camber. New parts are pretty cheap for this car, and performance parts for it are pretty scarce that fits well with the rule set.

While not specifically performance changes, I made arrangements for a second seat and harnesses to train drivers, and I put the battery, (previously in the passenger's place,) under the car ahead of the rear axle.

Oh, and I experimented with oils. Both the type and volume of oils. I knew I needed something thicker since the OP would drop a lot after the engine was fully up to temp. I'd been using some variation of 40 weight oil, either xW-40 or straight 40. Hot pressures would decay quite a bit to 40-50psi, so something heavier seemed a clear direction to go in. Straight 50 worked great when hot, but startup pressures were pretty high and likely getting bypassed at the pump and filter when cold even if not, 80+psi cold was making me uncomfy. 20W-50 seemed to keep oil pressures at both ends pretty steady. 70psi cold, 60psi hot. That'll work.

I needed to address one other thing with the oil. In sustained turns, like turn 5 at my local track, oil pressure would drop to 20psi under throttle. I didn't know if that was entirely due to oil slosh or oil slosh AND slow drain back from the top end. For a number of reasons, I suspected both. I added another quart to the crankcase and the problem seemed to go away. But, knowing that this might create a windage problem, I used 20W-50 racing oil with anti-foaming properties to head off any problems there. During the race, the pressures were pretty steady. They would only occasionally drop below 60.

The motor is still together and it seems unhurt by the abuse it endured. We lost our tachometer early in the first day, as well as our temperature gauge, AFR meter, and volt gauge. The only gauge we had was our oil pressure gauge. We were forced to let our oil pressure gauge fill in for our temperature gauge. Since high temps open up clearances and make the oil pressure drop, we kept a close eye on the oil pressure. It couldn't fill in for the tach, and I know the engine was routinely over revved for the entire race. I was likely the biggest offender there. But it still idles pretty smoothly at 600 rpm. I was only able to make one jet change before the AFR meter left the building, so I have no idea if we were spot on or a little rich. Rich is my bet. It ran pretty well though. Fuel slosh is a problem with these carbs and it's just something we have to live with.

Just thought some of the posters to this thread might be interested in an update.
 
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