1 Year of UOAs 2003 Jetta TDI 310,000 miles

[outoforder]

Oil Analyzers...........Blackstone............Blackstone............Blackstone
Mobil 1 TDT 5w40.....Rotella T6 5w40......Rotella T6 5w40......Rotella T6
08-06-16 @3000mi..10-02-15 @ 2029mi....07-27-15 @7044mi....05-02-15 @8039mi


Iron.........77...................64.....................80......................94
Chromium...3....................2......................3........................3
Nickel........1....................1......................2........................3
Aluminum...13...................4......................4........................6
Copper.......6....................5......................3........................4
Lead.........1.....................1......................3........................2
Silicon.......8.....................6......................5........................6
Sodium......5....................11......................8........................9
Potassium...4....................27....................16.......................13
Moly.........29...................69.....................62......................71
Boron.......100..................38.....................30.......................33
Magnesium.681...............1369..................1243....................1103
Calcium...1747.................904....................855....................937
Phosphorus.1018..............1199..................1028..................1095
Zinc.........1269...............1384..................1250..................1274
Soot 0.9%

Viscosity 100C 15.6............23.57................32.22...................12.57


Viscosity has varied greatly over the last year. Potassium was trending up then dropped off suddenly. Could it be the oil or calibration at specific testing facility? The iron is still reading high so I suppose this is just something I will have to live with. Curious as to other thoughts/opinions.

 

[Jetronic]

no soot levels from the previous fills?

 

[outoforder]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
no soot levels from the previous fills?


No, Blackstone does not quantify soot. That is the reason I went to Oil Analyzers

 

[Chris B.]

Holy smokes that iron is through the roof!!!!!

 

[CharlieBauer]

Umm ..... What's up with Viscosity?!

Was there something mechanical going on in 2015?

Was someone else changing your oil for you?

Did you ask Blackstone to confirm the numbers?

 

[Popsy]

What could be the cause of so much iron ?

The viscosity readings are just wrong or what ???

 

[Ohle_Manezzini]

0.9% of soot in 3k miles run. Kind of high. That gives 3% in previous near 10k runs. Viscosity increases from soot. Always on syn oils or recent?
Toilleit paper candidate?

 

[bullwinkle]

Is this a Pump Duese (not sure sp?) engine? Al is coming up too, something bad is happening here, those T6 100C viscosity numbers are CRAZY!

 

[SatinSilver]

No comments from Blacktone, maybe they were speechless. Well at least it has 310k miles on it. Maybe contact Terry Dyson for his analysis.

 

[Ohle_Manezzini]

Varnish dissolving makes viscosity high. But as a Diesel... could be high blowby, the culprit.

 

[Chris B.]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
No comments from Blacktone, maybe they were speechless. Well at least it has 310k miles on it. Maybe contact Terry Dyson for his analysis.



Wasn't Terry Dyson ran off the forum for posting loads of bull? I know he was posting tons of contradicting information and many members questioned his knowledge and integrity but this was 10 years ago.

 

[outoforder]

Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Umm ..... What's up with Viscosity?!

Was there something mechanical going on in 2015?

Was someone else changing your oil for you?

Did you ask Blackstone to confirm the numbers?


Nothing mechanical going on. The dual mass fly wheel in the clutch was starting to come apart last month and I had that replaced, but can't imagine that would have anything to do with the engine oil. I changed the cam shaft and lifters this past winter thinking that was contributing to high iron levels, but obviously that wasn't the issue. I do my own oil changes and run mostly Rosella T6 with an occasional Mobil 1 TDT OCI. No, I haven't spoken with Blackstone about their numbers but I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to call them.

 

[outoforder]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Is this a Pump Duese (not sure sp?) engine? Al is coming up too, something bad is happening here, those T6 100C viscosity numbers are CRAZY!


No, this is the ALH engine.

 

[outoforder]

Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
No comments from Blacktone, maybe they were speechless. Well at least it has 310k miles on it. Maybe contact Terry Dyson for his analysis.



Comments from Blackstone

05-02-15: We don't quantify the amount of soot in a sample as part of the standard analysis, but there was enough soot in this sample to prevent us from obtaining an insolubles reading. Excess soot can show a combustion issue, but we're not sure if that's the case since that typically comes with a high viscosity as well. Iron is on the high side of average, showing more steel wear than normal. Other wear metals are in good shape compared to universal averages, which shows typical wear with oil run ~8,400 miles. The TBN was strong, but run ~4K miles and check back on iron.

07-27-15: Something caused this oil to thicken up a lot while it was in service. The viscosity was higher than any diesel engine oil. That can be caused by soot from a combustion issue, and the lab did note an excess amount of soot. We're also seeing some potassium, which can show coolant, and coolant can also cause the oil to thicken like this. We know these engines can suffer from poor cam wear, which will cause high iron like you have so that would be one possibility. How are things on your end? Are you losing coolant or experiencing any mechanical issues?

10-02-15: There are still several potential issues on the table for your Jetta. We're finding more potassium than before and there's some sodium too so coolant is one possibility. Also, something is still making the oil read way thick for 5W/40, and no additives like Lucas were noted. Maybe residual oil from the previous fill caused it to read thick. Poor combustion or excess heat would be another possibility. Steel wear is better, but that's likely from the short oil change interval. Any issues on your end?

 

[Popsy]

Do you still have EGR?

 

[UltrafanUK]

The first Al figure is rather high which is odd. The other figures seem to indicate a slight HG leak and blowby issues. I would keep the OCI real short, perhaps 3K miles, try a fuel injection system cleaner and a can of stop leak in the coolant system to see if the figures improve.
I think nearly all TDI engines made after about 2001 have an EGR fitted, but they don't need cleaning very often (About every 50K miles plus) and cause minimal additinal wear. It's unlikely an EGR issue would be noticed in a UOA. Gummed up injectors and a worn top end causing deposits in the cylinders would be.

 

[Garak]

This is where we start going down a rabbit hole of no return. Yes, at first glance 77 ppm seems high for such a short OCI. But, it's been trending that way for a little while, and without further UOA history, we have no idea, really.

In the grand scheme of things, what can you really do here? Are you going to tear into a 310,000 mile engine just because UOA numbers are alarming? Or, are you going to play around with viscosities and brands to throw the minimal trending we have out the window altogether, which is already tenuous with a lab switch and an oil brand switch?

There might be something terribly wrong. There might be nothing wrong at all. I would say don't sweat it, because nothing good can come out of worrying about this.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Garak
This is where we start going down a rabbit hole of no return. Yes, at first glance 77 ppm seems high for such a short OCI. But, it's been trending that way for a little while, and without further UOA history, we have no idea, really.

In the grand scheme of things, what can you really do here? Are you going to tear into a 310,000 mile engine just because UOA numbers are alarming? Or, are you going to play around with viscosities and brands to throw the minimal trending we have out the window altogether, which is already tenuous with a lab switch and an oil brand switch?

There might be something terribly wrong. There might be nothing wrong at all. I would say don't sweat it, because nothing good can come out of worrying about this.


That sounds like an argument against getting UOA's done.

On BITOG.

Surely not.

Call me picky but time going L <- R is weird, in a not good way.

 

[Garak]

Well, it's an argument for using UOAs the way they were intended. We can't say anything here other than we don't like a couple of the numbers. That isn't exactly helpful.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Well, it's an argument for using UOAs the way they were intended. We can't say anything here other than we don't like a couple of the numbers. That isn't exactly helpful.
+1 on all the postings Garak! What is causing the numbers? Is the Shell oil the proper rated oil?