2005 Mercedes S600 V-12 (M275) Mobil 1 0W40

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Astro14

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Annual oil change on the S600 (twin-turbo V-12 M275 engine). Not a lot of miles this year. Car saw repairs on the hydraulic suspension (known as Active Body Control) that included line replacement, valve block rebuilding, accumulator replacement and fluid flush. It also saw some suspension repairs: ball joints, lower front control arms, and a strut. It saw an intercooler pump replacement and secondary cooling system vacuum bleed and flush. Finally, there were repairs on the ignition system, which included repairing a coil pack (new packs are about $1,500, I am not making this up, the V-12 is an expensive beast) and new spark plugs. While I was in there, I replaced the valve cover gaskets that were just beginning to weep. That's the repair to which Blackstone is referring. I mentioned to them that I had the valve covers off, and used bronze wool, after scraping with a gasket scraper, to clean both the magnesium covers and the aluminum cylinder heads where the gasket material had adhered. Glad to have the beast back on the road...and after the ignition and intercooler work...it feels even faster!




Cheers,
Astro
 
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Driver side cylinder head with valve cover off:


Passenger side cylinder head with valve cover off:
 
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
How is it only 5.5 liters with 12 cylinders? Kind of a waste of efficiency right?


Seriously?

Those 12 cylinders allow for exceptional smoothness. The roughly 500cc per cylinder allows for good flame spreading, and very efficient combustion, particularly under boost. It handles boost very well. Stock, from the factory, on the dyno, this engine puts about 470 BHP to the wheels...through an automatic transmission, that translates to about 540 BHP at the crank.

A lot more efficient, and powerful, than almost any other 5.5 liter engine out there...there may be a few from Italy that get close...

How is it that you have a 6.7 liter turbodiesel, with turbocharging and all that compression, but you only make a tiny bit more torque and half the horsepower?

In an engine that weighs almost twice as much as the M275?

Twice the weight, similar torque, but half the RPM, and only half the power....and with those kind of numbers, you're going to ping on the efficiency of the V-12?

Why do you think Pagani chose this V-12 for the Huayra?

Why do you think Packard, Lamborghini, and Ferrari all used V-12 in their very best cars?
 
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Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
How is it only 5.5 liters with 12 cylinders? Kind of a waste of efficiency right?


Lol, what? A V12 is inherently balanced, right off the top of my head. There are also performance advantages ignition-wise.

Are you saying you would have designed it better than Mercedes-Benz?
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
How is it only 5.5 liters with 12 cylinders? Kind of a waste of efficiency right?


Seriously?

Those 12 cylinders allow for exceptional smoothness. The roughly 500cc per cylinder allows for good flame spreading, and very efficient combustion, particularly under boost. It handles boost very well. Stock, from the factory, on the dyno, this engine puts about 470 BHP to the wheels...through an automatic transmission, that translates to about 540 BHP at the crank.

A lot more efficient, and powerful, than almost any other 5.5 liter engine out there...there may be a few from Italy that get close...

How is it that you have a 6.7 liter turbodiesel, with turbocharging and all that compression, but you only make a tiny bit more torque and half the horsepower?

In an engine that weighs almost twice as much as the M275?

Twice the weight, similar torque, but half the RPM, and only half the power....and with those kind of numbers, you're going to ping on the efficiency of the V-12?

Why do you think Pagani chose this V-12 for the Huayra?

Why do you think Packard, Lamborghini, and Ferrari all used V-12 in their very best cars?


Don't forget Lincoln, BMW, Jaguar, and Aston Martin!

A V12 is simply THE PERFECT layout, IMHO.
 
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There is a fairly clean, black, 125k, N/A S600 on Craigslist that the guy can not give away. He switched from $3000 to make an offer. So tempting.
 
Thanks for sharing. Id love one of those, but the pics under the valve cover scare me... I think Id rather wrench on an LM2500...
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Thanks for sharing. Id love one of those, but the pics under the valve cover scare me... I think Id rather wrench on an LM2500...


they were the ones that I was playing performance engineer with straight after Uni...the starter motor was a V12-71.

As to the merc, I know a guy who just bought a used W12 Bentley...THAT's scary.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Thanks for sharing. Id love one of those, but the pics under the valve cover scare me... I think Id rather wrench on an LM2500...


Under the valve covers, this car is straightforward. Everything outside the valve covers might give you pause...

The M275 engine is known for its incredible torque curve: 590 ft lbs from 1800 - 5500 RPM as well as the ease with which it can be tuned/tweaked. Lots of folks have 650 hp kits for it. Some folks have pushed it to 1,000 hp. All with the concomitant increase in boost and torque. Interestingly, MB limits the AMG versions of this engine to 1,000NM of torque for drivetrain reasons. That's about 730 ft lbs...arbitrarily imposed as a limit to save the driveline.

But all this power comes at a bit of a price...just to take an example: to change spark plugs requires about 6 hours. There is a good chance you'll break a coil pack. Each coil pack retails for about $1,400. https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mercedes-benz-ignition-coil-cassette-2751500780 One for each cylinder bank. The V-12 is stuffed in there so tight that in order to replace the serpentine belt requires draining the cooling system, so you can remove the hoses and electric fan, to gain enough room to get a wrench on the front of the engine.

The suspension is awesome - the car corners absolutely flat and is very smooth all the time. Rides like a limo, corners like a Prorsche. Very impressive for a luxury car of nearly two tons. But the ABC system requires periodic hose replacement. I had one hose rebuilt for $150, replaced one for $300. And the latter (the pulse damper hose) required lifting the engine a few inches to get it out. ABC Struts retail for $1,200 and I had to replace one for an internal sensor failure. The system is filtered and fluid must be changed.

Maintenance on the car requires STAR/DAS - a computer system that allows you to talk to the computers, which are on a fiber optic network. An OBD II code reader is basically useless on this car.

The maintenance challenge is why I was able to buy a car that sold for $135,000 in 2005 for only $22,000 in 2013. It's the most incredible car I've ever seen - absolute luxury, but incredible performance. Heated, power adjustable seats...in the back... And a 12.7 1/4 mile time.

Every car guy should own a V-12. It's the pinnacle of internal combustion architecture. A twin turbo V-12 is even better...But this one presents challenges...
 
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
There is a fairly clean, black, 125k, N/A S600 on Craigslist that the guy can not give away. He switched from $3000 to make an offer. So tempting.


The W220 is a great car, but see my comments on the ABC. The M137 is a cool engine, but not without issues. Same ignition cassettes, same risks there. Make certain that it doesn't leak oil. The oil cooler on that engine is in the cylinder valley and takes 10 hours to replace if it is leaking...
 
Originally Posted By: Gasbuggy
Not sure why every company over complicates these V12s. Some guys made a cheap and reliable one in their shop. http://www.lsxmag.com/news/the-ls12-the-inside-scoop-on-the-v12-ls-engine/


That engine has yet to run...has yet to pass emissions...or manufacturer reliability tests....

And won't fit under the hood of any production car.

Pretty hard to take it seriously.
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Driver side cylinder head with valve cover off:


Passenger side cylinder head with valve cover off:



Wish it looked that good under the valve covers on my 99 M112 V6 3.2L. Had a lot of varnish and a little sludge forming. Would like to get a grip on the throat of the previous owner. Poor maintenance or incorrect oil caused that.
Using extra short OCIs and flush products to try to slowly dissolve the varnish. At least you don't have to deal with that!



Would love to drive one of the S600 V-12s! Enjoy it.
 
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