Pennzoil PP+, 5w30, 09 Luxus ES 350, High Copper

[MikeySoft]

Pennzoil PP+, 5w30, 09 Luxus ES 350, High Copper

This Lexus was only driven 1680 miles in over 28 months. It is mostly driven less than 2 miles at a time. It also sits without being driven for periods of time. It was driven about 25 miles before this oil change.

I am concern about the high copper

Latest UOA is on the right.
Code:


+--------------+----------+------------------

Unit Miles: 40,123 41,803

Oil Miles: 859 1,680

Oil Months: 13.5 28.25

Date: 04/22/14 07/03/2016

Code:


Aluminum(Al): 2 3

Chromium(Cr): 0 0

Iron(Fe): 5 6

Copper(Cu): 10 18

Lead(Pb): 0 0

Tin(Sn): 0 0

Moly(Mo): 38 48

Nickel(Ni): 0 0

Manganese 0 0

Silver(Ag): 0 0

Titanium(Ti): 0 0

Potassium(K): 2 1

Boron(B): 4 2

Silicon(Si): 8 9

Sodium(Na): 2 4

CalciumCa) 2083 2106

Magnesium(Mg): 18 12

Phosphorus(P): 636 637

Zinc(Zn) 741 735

Barium(Ba): 0 0



SUS Vis @210F: 51.9 56.5

cSt Vis @100C: 7.85 9.21

Flashpoint F: 392 420

Fuel %:
Antifreeze: 0.0 0.0

Water: 0.0 0.0

Insolubles % 0.1 TR

TBN ? 5.1

All comments are welcome.

 

[CT8]

Conventional oil probably would be a wiser oil choice, The car is always in the highest wear operating cycle. Sell the car,

 

[MikeySoft]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Conventional oil probably would be a wiser oil choice, The car is always in the highest wear operating cycle. Sell the car,

It is my wife's car and she doesn't want to sell it.
Also, why do you suggest to sell it as so litle miles are put on it. A new car will have the saving driving condictions?
Thanks

 

[Brybo86]

2 miles? How about walk, or ride a bike. At least in nicer weather.

In the winter take the long route.

 

[MikeySoft]

Originally Posted By: Brybo86
2 miles? How about walk, or ride a bike. At least in nicer weather.

In the winter take the long route.

We do all of that. My wife drives to her mom which is sbout 2 or so miles each way and often comes back after dark.

 

[mctmatt]

Spend a month putting some good hwy miles on that car try to get at least 1000 miles maybe even 2,000 then do another UOA. Try some Castrol Magnetic as the short trips with just starting the engine and driving just a few miles is much harder on an engine than people realize.

 

[PolarisX]

I'd take the car once a week on the highway and beat the snot out of it.

Two mile trips, and extended sitting is going to rip any oil to shreds. Maybe you need to take the car a few days a week.

Even the iron wear for that interval is poor.

 

[DeafBrad]

The simplest solution is use conventional oil and change it a few times a year. If you change it yourself and buy oil on sale, etc, you are talking $35. Your engine will thank you.

 

[MikeySoft]

Actually I do change mine & my wife's oil. For the Lexus, I believe it cost a little less then $35. I got the Pennzoil PP+ at WM. I got the filter cartridge at a local Toyota dealer which is cheaper then at WM & a lot cheaper then from a Lexus dealer. If I change her oil about twice a year, it would only have about 400 miles which I would consider a waste, even using dino oil.

She had a Honda Accord and lived near the ocean before we married. Her driving was similar back then but had to park outside & drove a little more. The brake disks use to get all rusted. She also would sit in the car to warm it up during winters. I told her she should drive slowly to warm the car and she should drive at least once a week to keep rust off the brake disks.

Her reply was:
Her car is to serve her, not for her to serve her car.

I diddin UOA on her Accord back then. The report was better then excellent, it was actually "incredible" to quote Patman.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb..._95_#Post231109

Sorry for being a little off topic but it is interesting to compare her old Accord UOA with her present Lexus.

 

[Popsy]

Just a theory, fuel contaminated oil (because of short trips) induces some copper corrosion somewhere. There's no lead so that's good, maybe some oil cooler?
The fuel was ok on the report so probably just a silly idea.

Maybe change to Maxlife 5W30 next time ?

 

[zeng]

Oil has sheared to 20w.

 

[Colt45ws]

My experience with fuel dilution is my old job where I was running 2 miles to work and back. Most of it is on 50MPH roads, so you can ride a bike or walk if you want, but I never had the guts to do that.
I had high copper as well, every UOA. I now take high copper as a sign of long term fuel dilution happening. Not sure why, maybe there is some corrosion happening, or maybe its just a softer metal. Most engines these days have aluminum main and rod bearings, so not really sure where its coming from in them. Thats also why you won't see elevated lead readings.
I would change the oil more often, even if its only 500 miles on the change. The length of time in the crankcase is certainly not helping things. If you are hesitant to go to a conventional, you might do what I do with my Mom's car and buffer the PP with a quart of Rotella 5W40, to bring the viscosity and TBN and AW additives up.
Also, try to line up your change out with spring, so right after its been running in the cold all winter and had crazy fuel dilute. Your last change in April was perfect.
I'd short change your next one in about next April, and then do it again at least every year.

 

[MikeySoft]

The first UOA, the one on the left, was about a year after the dealer's complimentary free oil change. I assume it was 5w30 as on the manual & oil cap. All the dealer told us was the oil was a Pennzoil blend. Then the UAO had a low viscosity with an elevated copper. So I was thinking maybe the dealer used a Xw20 oil. Maybe because new Lexus use lighter oil and I think I read Lexus/Toyota said it was ok to use lighter oil on the 2009? I can not find now where I read that.

I put in the PPPP 5W30 myself for the second oil change and while the UAO is a little light, the viscosity is in the range of a 5w30 given by Blackstone labs.

Both times the car was driven about 25 miles on the highway to a place I could change the oil. Could that drive heat out any fuel dilution which is why it does not show up in the UAOs?

 

[Colt45ws]

Maybe, along with the way the Blackstone does their fuel test because they extrapolate from flashpoint rather than actually test for fuel. The flashpoint IS abnormally high to have fuel in it, but the viscosity is down to a 20 grade regardless of what it says on the report. The viscosity along with the driving style you outlined does make me think there is fuel. And like, I noted, I always saw high copper in my own engines from fuel dilute running similar drive cycles.

 

[MikeySoft]

I just went to Pennzoil website for the oil.

Link to Spec for Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 oil.

The flash point is listed as: 224C per ASTM D93. 224C = 435.2F which is higher then the lab's report of 420F.

The Kinematic Viscosity @ 100 C cSt is listed as: 10.3 per ASTM D445. 10.3 is higher then the lab report of 9.21.

Is the above additional evidence for fuel in the oil or is it just normal variations?

 

[zeng]

There may be variations, both in manufacturer virgin KV@100*C and Blackstone figures ...... but undoubtedly there is viscosity drop issue .... to be taken note of.

 

[PolarisX]

Originally Posted By: MikeySoft

Her reply was:
Her car is to serve her, not for her to serve her car.


You are gonna serve it a lot of your wallet eventually...

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: MikeySoft
Originally Posted By: CT8
Conventional oil probably would be a wiser oil choice, The car is always in the highest wear operating cycle. Sell the car,

It is my wife's car and she doesn't want to sell it.
Also, why do you suggest to sell it as so litle miles are put on it. A new car will have the saving driving condictions?
Thanks
Because you are worried about the wear that is probable caused by the operating conditions. Try Magnetec and do a uoa. post it. Probably the car will age out before it wears out. The sell it part was because you seemed worried ,