Ethanol in daily driven 84 Olds - options

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I've done a lot of reading on here but haven't found much of what I'm looking for. I drive an 84 olds with a 76 350 Olds engine, but unlike most people worried about the ethanol in their classic car, this one gets driven almost every single day. It used to be driven about 100 Miles a day but now it's just in town about 10 miles a day and longer trips most weekends. Doing the math it costs more than $10 extra to fill with 91 octane that has no ethanol, while i can buy stabil marine 360 and it cost $3.25/tank added to a regular tank of 87 octane. The car does not require anything higher than 87 so the higher octane is a waste, it's just the only way to get 0% ethanol here in Canada.

The car gets parked for the winter with 91 octane E0 with stabilizer, it's just the summer time im worried about.

I'm wondering if I'm as safe using the additives specifically for ethanol gas, every tank full as opposed to spending $0.53 a gallon extra for premium. Maybe one day when I finally rebuild the engine with higher compression I can take advantage of using premium but for now this engine seems to just keep rolling on.

Last week my carburetor plugged up somewhere and lost almost all power. It's taken apart now and a spare carb is on the car for now, but I have to fix the original. About 2-3 years ago I had a carb problem and there was white buildup inside on the metering rods. Now I'm paranoid. I think the problems started when I no longer had a 100+ mile commute every day.
 
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Originally Posted By: caprice_2nv
every tank full as opposed to spending $0.53 a gallon extra for premium.


Is it .53 higher per liter or per gallon?
 
My experience with MBTE (the additive prior to ethanol in Connecticut) is that the various components, gaskets and sealers were not designed with these additives in mind. It isn't the fuel sitting that is the problem, it is the use of the fuel, period.

My 84 Impala had to have a carb rebuilt and the mechanic (whom i trust) indicated the use of these additives took a toll on older vehicles.

JMO.
 
It's $0.14-0.16 a litre more for premium, I just converted to gallons since most people on this board are more familiar with gallons.
 
Well, FWIW I run E10 in my 1980 Yamaha which was definintely not designed for that. I try to drain the carbs when I don't plan on riding it... but I've been far from perfect on that. I don't know when the carbs were rebuilt last but about 3 or 4 years ago I stripped everything down to find everything except the butterfly shaft seals were doing just fine.
 
Until a few years ago my daily driver was an 1987 Olds Cutlass with the 307 engine, never had any issues attributable to the 10% ethanol fuel here in N.J., nor with any other 307 powered vehicle that I owned over the years.

Not that I had a choice mind you, ethanol free fuel is not available in this area.

A 32 year old carburator is going to need a rebuild sooner or later anyway. Although, those late model Quadra- Jets can run a long time.
 
I had a Ford Festiva. It got great gas milage. One day the silly representatives in Sacramento decided to have MTBE added to Californias fuel. My Festiva went from 38 MPG to 32 MPG. I wasn't paying less for gas at all. I paid progressively more and got less from it. Dr. Wattenburg (for those who know him from KGO) testified before the California legislature it was a bad idea to allow this fuel into California. He was right. It was a bad idea and time proved his warnings to be true. Look at how badly lakes and rivers became polluted with the stuff.
 
I know they need to be rebuilt at some point, but it was rebuilt 9 years ago before the engine was first put in the car. It ran great for a long time until the top had to be taken off a couple years ago, and then it acted up again this year. I already know I've lost about 5 mpg since the ethanol was brought in years ago. I used to be able to get about 27-29mpg in these cars with highway gears and overdrive but now the max is about 22-24.
 
Originally Posted By: caprice_2nv
I've done a lot of reading on here but haven't found much of what I'm looking for. I drive an 84 olds with a 76 350 Olds engine, but unlike most people worried about the ethanol in their classic car, this one gets driven almost every single day. It used to be driven about 100 Miles a day but now it's just in town about 10 miles a day and longer trips most weekends. Doing the math it costs more than $10 extra to fill with 91 octane that has no ethanol, while i can buy stabil marine 360 and it cost $3.25/tank added to a regular tank of 87 octane. The car does not require anything higher than 87 so the higher octane is a waste, it's just the only way to get 0% ethanol here in Canada.

The car gets parked for the winter with 91 octane E0 with stabilizer, it's just the summer time im worried about.

I'm wondering if I'm as safe using the additives specifically for ethanol gas, every tank full as opposed to spending $0.53 a gallon extra for premium. Maybe one day when I finally rebuild the engine with higher compression I can take advantage of using premium but for now this engine seems to just keep rolling on.

Last week my carburetor plugged up somewhere and lost almost all power. It's taken apart now and a spare carb is on the car for now, but I have to fix the original. About 2-3 years ago I had a carb problem and there was white buildup inside on the metering rods. Now I'm paranoid. I think the problems started when I no longer had a 100+ mile commute every day.


I would run the E0 if it is available to you. It is the old adage, pay now or pay later. I can almost guarantee you (at least in my case) that the actual cost per gallon of ethanol due to it's energy loss will be comparable to the E0. A couple pennies either way is not going to be enough to compensate you for the repairs later.
 
Never had a problem with E10 87 octane on older late '70s early '80s Fords. GM might be different.
 
My friend who has a fleet of classic GM and Ford, has had much better luck with the quadrajets on all his late 70s, 80s GM's than he has on his Ford's (60s-70s). This has been his year for carb repairs on the Ford's while no issues yet on his quadrajets. I've been running the quadrajet a lot longer than he has though so it may just be my turn. The thing about the quadrajet is we can usually pull them from a junk parts car and they almost always run fine as is even when they've sat for ages, (probably since before ethanol was introduced).

The thing is, using hi higher octane than required also causes loss of fuel mileage, as it burns slower, so the mileage increase from that may not be that much. It's not pennies either it's like $10 a week extra. And repairs are more costly in time than money.
 
example how to figure "actual" cost of E10 on previous thread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4089298/Re:_E30_running_good_in_non_Fl#Post4089298
"How i figure my actual cost of E10 to E0 is to take the E10 price per gallon and divide by the expected yield."
post #4089298

Also, i have always believed that higher octane fuel will give better mileage for the exact reason you list, it burns slower.

If you are using a top tier E0 fuel with higher octane, i would expect everything to be good.
 
I believe it gives lower mpg because it has less energy, and gives less HP given that the vehicle only requires 87 octane. I could be wrong, it's been a long time since I read all that, which was before ethanol came along. I'm not trying to argue or say you're wrong but this is stuff I remember reading a lot of different places when I was young and hoped premium gas would make my 87 cutlass faster. It did in the end only because I was able to crank the timing up way farther on my detonation prone 305. It had 9.3:1 cr while my current 350 rocket only has 8:1 and never ever pings even with timing advanced so far it doesn't want to start.
 
I'm not sure what the difference is in price in the States. I know our gas is insanely more expensive here. Yesterday I filled my tank full at $0.94/Liter because it had dropped 6 cents in 3 days and I was sure it was not going any lower. If I had bought premium it was $1.13/liter. Your gallon is 3.8 x a liter. The car pays me back in lower insurance costs, repair and parts costs and no car payment. So the difference buying gas for this at 20mpg compared to a newer car that I don't like anyway isn't a big deal, but the difference between 87 And 91 octane is huge.
 
The claim before the big price drop was ethanol was cheaper than gas so it lowered the price when blended. Today the wholesale cost of fuel ethanol is $1.52 for August contracts. E0 87 wholesale today is $1.38 a gallon so the ethanol blending actually increase the cost of E10 vs E0. Yet E0 when found around here has a mid grade price to it.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/prices.cfm
 
Originally Posted By: caprice_2nv
I'm not sure what the difference is in price in the States. I know our gas is insanely more expensive here. Yesterday I filled my tank full at $0.94/Liter because it had dropped 6 cents in 3 days and I was sure it was not going any lower. If I had bought premium it was $1.13/liter. Your gallon is 3.8 x a liter. The car pays me back in lower insurance costs, repair and parts costs and no car payment. So the difference buying gas for this at 20mpg compared to a newer car that I don't like anyway isn't a big deal, but the difference between 87 And 91 octane is huge.


In order to figure your actual cost of E10, take the price of $0.94 and divide by your expected yield. Let me give you an example as I don't know your actual loss in mileage, I will use your price per liter with my expected yield for E10. OK, so lets say I go to Canada to visit all my bitog friends up there and I pull into your gas station today. I already know that in my car running E0 I will get 32 miles to the gallon, but on ethanol I will only get 28 miles to the gallon. This is the loss due to the lower energy value of ethanol. So my actual yield is 28 divided by 32=.875

so I take $.94 divide by .875=$1.07 this is my actual cost to run this E10 based on the energy value loss for my vehicle, So compare that to the $1.13 for the E0 on this day at this station, and that is why i said the difference is pennies or in this case 6 cents. Due to this energy loss, you will be coming back sooner to fuel up, and at the end of the year this may add up more for you, it all depends on your actual mileage figures between E0 and E10.

Now here in the states, the spread between E0 and E10 is not that wide, and in my case and for my mileage figures it is almost always better to go with E0, and that is where I am coming from.

The above calculation is how to compare apples to apples, you can't just look at the prices on the pump, one must account for the loss of energy value based on the mileage you know you will lose from running the ethanol.

Hope this helps out.
 
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E10 won't cause any problems and won't make any difference in the fuel consumption that you'll see.
We've had E10 here for decades with E0 unavailable outside of airports and marinas.
No issues I've ever seen, even with old carbureted engines.
Save yourself some money and don't fear using E10. No need for any adds either.
If E10 were really that bad, we'd have seen many problems in older vehicles when E10 became the standard fuel here.
We didn't.
Remember too that the E10 label on the pump indicates that the fuel may contain up to 10% corn liquor. Given the current relative prices of ethanol and gasoline, most E10 is probably closer to E0 anyway.
 
The only people I hear talk like that are people benefiting from the farming for it. I take it you haven't spoken to any small engine repair shops at all about all the business they get from the damage caused by ethanol in small engines that aren't used constantly. Also the loss of fuel economy isn't debatable, it's a fact. In my opinion either e0 or an ethanol additive is needed, I just need to decide on one or the other.
 
I have heard that levels of ethanol are low right now, because of an overabundance of gasoline, so that could be a good reason to stick with the regular and an additive and hope there is very little ethanol in the tanks.
 
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