0w20 and the itch to stay with 5w30

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: Sayjac
New Toyota under manufacturers warranty, 'if' vehicle specs 0w20 'only', you use 5w30, you do so at your own peril. In other words, should something major happen to the engine no matter how unlikely, you assume the risk of defending the oil choice if the manufacturer refuses to pay. You might win, but it will be your time and money to battle them in court, a fight which could be drawn out.

So use 5w30 if choose to assume the risk. Or, use 0w20 while under warranty, then use what you want later. Your call.

All that said, if OM says 5w30 also acceptable then no problem.


Exactly. Fortunately this go round I have the text stating in the OM that 5W30 is OK. At Bitog many of us obsess about using the "best of everything," then feel we have our hands tied behind our backs when the OM states one and only one viscosity or else....... Many want to use a viscosity for our engine based on climate or how we plan on using the vehicle, and want to do so from day one not when the warranty is up.


I "tow and run hard" my Corolla 100% of the time so my 5w30 is "justified"....I haven't run a 20wt since 375mi or 600 kms on the odo. I am out of warranty at 187,500mi or 300,000km and just tried 5w40. OOoo scary...still within guidelines of the world Corolla OM. Wouldn't you know it...my fuel economy didn't change a bit. I just had my 3rd tank of 42mpgUS or 50mpgIMP 5.6L/100km.

Eat it CAFE !


And I used 5-20 in 1978 in my engine calling for 10-40. My MPG did improve, and the engine performed very well, in fact much better in extreme cold temps.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
And I used 5-20 in 1978 in my engine calling for 10-40. My MPG did improve, and the engine performed very well, in fact much better in extreme cold temps.


Again...that M1 most likely had an HTHS of 2.9, much like Redline does today being totally synthetic without VIIs...it was (to quote aehass and CATERHAM) "really a 30" (in today's usage of HTHS minimums)

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
And I used 5-20 in 1978 in my engine calling for 10-40. My MPG did improve, and the engine performed very well, in fact much better in extreme cold temps.


Again...that M1 most likely had an HTHS of 2.9, much like Redline does today being totally synthetic without VIIs...it was (to quote aehass and CATERHAM) "really a 30" (in today's usage of HTHS minimums)


"Most likely"? Well the can said 5-20 and I'm stickin to that, and the engine did perform much better.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: tig1
"Most likely"? Well the can said 5-20 and I'm stickin to that, and the engine did perform much better.


5W20 back in that day didn't have high shear viscometry in the specification, so had no HTHS minimum...it was and probably would still be a 5W20.

Since high shear viscometry was introduced, the MINIMUM for 20 is 2.6, which is where the industry is now targetting the (economy) 20s, 2.6 and 2.7.

A pure synthetic 5W20, like Redline is, and what M1 was purported by mobil (VI free) would have had an HTHS of 2.9, which is where the ILSAC GF oils target 2.9 to 3.0 typically.

When High Shear viscometry WAS introduced, the 0W, 5W, and 10W 40 grades were allowed to have a 2.9HTHS as well.

So when Mobil stated that their 5W20 "protected" as well as a 10W40, I beleive them.

Now I agree, it's still 5W20...CATERHAM and AEHAAS insist that these "thick" (HTHS wise) 20s are "really 30s"...it's a different animal entirely to M1 5W20 these days.

 

[12V71]

Have you guys seen how tight Toyota puts together an 0w-20 engine? I was skeptical of xw-20 oils delivering durability when I bought my Sienna in '12. Then I saw the specs on the bearing clearances. Under .001 for the "just right" clearance, just over .001 was too much. I stuck with TGMO and M1 0w-20 for the first 30k then went to RP HPS 5w-20 for added peace of mind.

 

[Shannow]

Is that different to their clearances on the same engine in other places ?

 

[pscholte]

I am so confused!

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: tig1
"Most likely"? Well the can said 5-20 and I'm stickin to that, and the engine did perform much better.


5W20 back in that day didn't have high shear viscometry in the specification, so had no HTHS minimum...it was and probably would still be a 5W20.

Since high shear viscometry was introduced, the MINIMUM for 20 is 2.6, which is where the industry is now targetting the (economy) 20s, 2.6 and 2.7.

A pure synthetic 5W20, like Redline is, and what M1 was purported by mobil (VI free) would have had an HTHS of 2.9, which is where the ILSAC GF oils target 2.9 to 3.0 typically.

When High Shear viscometry WAS introduced, the 0W, 5W, and 10W 40 grades were allowed to have a 2.9HTHS as well.

So when Mobil stated that their 5W20 "protected" as well as a 10W40, I beleive them.

Now I agree, it's still 5W20...CATERHAM and AEHAAS insist that these "thick" (HTHS wise) 20s are "really 30s"...it's a different animal entirely to M1 5W20 these days.


M1 20 wt oils today are much different than the 20 wt I used 38 years ago. But what is the same is the outstanding performance both oils have giving me.

 

[pscholte]

I find that I am rapidly losing interest in the oil company hype and in anecdotal information on this board that says oil x is bad no oil x is good it makes my car loud it makes my car quiet it makes my car run rough it makes my car run smoothly. In my estimation, Car and owner and driving conditions combinations are unique and therefore a sample of one. Not to be treated as universally true. Whatever. I am getting to the point that a reputable brand synthetic or conventional at 5000 mile OCI lets me sleep at night. I still enjoy reading the threads but they no longer affect my behavior.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Smokescreen
I "tow and run hard" my Corolla 100% of the time so my 5w30 is "justified"....I haven't run a 20wt since 375mi or 600 kms on the odo. I am out of warranty at 187,500mi or 300,000km and just tried 5w40. OOoo scary...still within guidelines of the world Corolla OM. Wouldn't you know it...my fuel economy didn't change a bit. I just had my 3rd tank of 42mpgUS or 50mpgIMP 5.6L/100km.
Eat it CAFE !

And I used 5-20 in 1978 in my engine calling for 10-40. My MPG did improve, and the engine performed very well, in fact much better in extreme cold temps.

I would speculate that both are right, with ........
one drives like a teen and the other drives like a granny.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: 12V71
Have you guys seen how tight Toyota puts together an 0w-20 engine? I was skeptical of xw-20 oils delivering durability when I bought my Sienna in '12. Then I saw the specs on the bearing clearances. Under .001 for the "just right" clearance, just over .001 was too much. I stuck with TGMO and M1 0w-20 for the first 30k then went to RP HPS 5w-20 for added peace of mind.



you just said how tight the clearances were on the 2GR-FE. but then decided to switch to 5W20 anyway? why?

 

[12V71]

The owners manual says that 0w-20 or 5W-20 can be used. 20F is about the coldest it gets here every couple of years and I use a block heater to get the heater working faster below 45F. The biggest reason to go with 5w-20 is that it is the thinnest Royal Purple HPS. I also wanted the added zinc and phosphorus in HPS vs API SN oils. The engine doesn't burn any oil, so the added zinc and phosphorus shouldn't hurt the catalytic converters.

 

[12V71]

I don't know about this engine other countries. I suppose if Toyota in a specific country recommends 0w or 5w-20 the clearances are pretty tight in order to maintain oil pressure at idle at operating temp.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: 12V71
I don't know about this engine other countries. I suppose if Toyota in a specific country recommends 0w or 5w-20 the clearances are pretty tight in order to maintain oil pressure at idle at operating temp.


You might suppose that they are different...but they aren't.

 

[GreasyGrace]

Originally Posted By: pscholte
I find that I am rapidly losing interest in the oil company hype and in anecdotal information on this board that says oil x is bad no oil x is good it makes my car loud it makes my car quiet it makes my car run rough it makes my car run smoothly. In my estimation, Car and owner and driving conditions combinations are unique and therefore a sample of one. Not to be treated as universally true. Whatever. I am getting to the point that a reputable brand synthetic or conventional at 5000 mile OCI lets me sleep at night. I still enjoy reading the threads but they no longer affect my behavior.


I'm with you. Those anecdotal observations are absolutely the worst input board members can provide about using oil A, B, C, etc.

I prefer to see a virgin oil sample of said oil, along with pushing the oil to its limit (say a 10k interval) and following it with a UOA.

People need to dig deeper into what's actually in the said oil, if the data is available.

 

[Doog]

Yeah, I am going to stick with M1 0w20 or QSUD 0w20 and a 5000 OCI.