FCA MS-11106

[pb379]

The rumor on the street in Detroit is that FCA will soon be changing the recommended oil spec for the EcoDiesel in the NA market from MS-11106 to full synthetic 5W40 CJ-4 oil. This is in response to to the engine failures under warranty.

http://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/ram-1...e-failures.html

http://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/ram-1500-diesel-mechanical/9493-poll-catastrophic-failures.html

Do you oil experts think this is a good thing or FCA shifting blame?

Thanks

 

[Jimzz]

So it seems the oil cooler is not working well so they want to spec a more robust engine oil to handle the extra load? If so all that does is kick the can down the road I am guessing far enough to get them out of warranty?

Nissan did this when the Titan first came out. The diffs had so many issues they switched to a aluminum diff cover with fins and required 75w140 syn gear oil.

 

[901Memphis]

Interesting I haven't heard about these issues until I read the thread you posted.

 

[Bandito440]

That's fine by me!

Mine sees light duty, but I wouldn't mind filling it with T6.

 

[xxch4osxx]

I wonder how many of them blew up due to some people tuning them way above the power level they were designed to run at trying to get them to "roll coal"

 

[pb379]

Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
I wonder how many of them blew up due to some people tuning them way above the power level they were designed to run at trying to get them to "roll coal"


I don't think that type of delete/tuning it is that prevalent. I'm sure they would have lots of issues getting a deleted and tuned blown engine replaced under warranty.

 

[pb379]

In all fairness to FCA and VM Motori, there are thousands of these little diesels on the road without any issues. Some have over 150,000 miles.

http://www.ram1500diesel.com/forum/ram-1...ecodiesels.html

I'm sceptical that these issues with early failure are due to the oil spec.

 

[Bandito440]

I agree. There doesn't seem to be more than a small percentage of failures of unknown cause.

Still, if the opportunity presented itself, I'd strip it of emissions equipment and fill it with something full SAPS. Perhaps after the 80k emissions warranty is over.

 

[pb379]

The recommended oil for the EcoDiesels changed today.

We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as MOPAR or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 or ACEA E9/E7 or ACEA A3/B4 engine oil category is required.

 

[Bandito440]

Hooray! Is there a TSB or press release that you could link to?

 

[pb379]

I guess there is a TSB, but I couldn't find it. What I posted above is from the diesel supplement for my truck.

Yours should also be updated. Check the Jeep download area.

 

[Fraser434]

Turns out what dodge/jeep/fca did was update the owners manuals - diesel supplement to say 3.0 Diesel engine is to use SAE 5W-40 Synthetic/ API CJ4.

No TSB, feel free to check any given owners manual for yourself.
http://www.jeep.com/en/owners/manuals/
https://www.moparownerconnect.com/Pages/global.aspx

Apparently the change was made because of consistent errors people/dealers putting in regular pennzoil 5W30 or putting in Rotella T6 because thats whats specified for Ram 2500 "diesel". But its large enough that all Ram's at FCA now are waiting for oil changes, so they must see an issue with C3/MS11106 oil. Apparently engine failures were attributed to it. As I suspected C3/MS11106 oil is not without flaws.

 

[pb379]

So, what is the MS-10902 spec? Is it just reference to CJ-4? I've not seen it on any PDS for T6, Delvac 1 or DELO.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
I agree. There doesn't seem to be more than a small percentage of failures of unknown cause.

Still, if the opportunity presented itself, I'd strip it of emissions equipment and fill it with something full SAPS. Perhaps after the 80k emissions warranty is over.


Or just use full saps and remove the emissions aquipment when and IF needed.

 

[loneryder]

So they are recommending a full saps oil instead of a low saps oil?? What about the Dpf's?

 

[edyvw]

I would then use Mid-SAPS 5W40, something like Castrol 5W40 Turbo Diesel, Valvoline 5W40 MST, Motul X-Clean 5W40, etc.

 

[pb379]

CJ-4 oil would be mid SAPS, I believe. 1.0

 

[pb379]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
I would then use Mid-SAPS 5W40, something like Castrol 5W40 Turbo Diesel, Valvoline 5W40 MST, Motul X-Clean 5W40, etc.


Wouldn't Delvac 1 ESP 5W40, Rotella T6 or DELO 5W40 be a better choice?

How about Valvoline SynPower HST 5W40 or SynPower 0W40, both of those are ACEA A3/B4

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: pb379
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I would then use Mid-SAPS 5W40, something like Castrol 5W40 Turbo Diesel, Valvoline 5W40 MST, Motul X-Clean 5W40, etc.


Wouldn't Delvac 1 ESP 5W40, Rotella T6 or DELO 5W40 be a better choice?

How about Valvoline SynPower HST 5W40 or SynPower 0W40, both of those are ACEA A3/B4

Problem is DPF and other stuff (CBU)
First, T6 has high NOACK of 12.6%. SA is at 1.0, similar issues with Delvac. Those are truck rated ESP numbers, which means SA at 1.0.
Valvoline HST is no different then MST when it comes to performance (HTHS at 3.7), NOACK at 10%, but MST has SA level at 0.76.
Also, Valvoline 5W40 MST is ACEA A3/B3 B4, C3, BMW LL-04, MB 229.51, Porsche A40, VW 502.00, VW 505.01.
You can get it at NAPA when it is sale for $4.99 (like I did).

 

[pb379]

Edyvw,
I'm looking at this-
http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/synpower.pdf

The oils I see that are ACEA A3/B4 are the Valvoline SynPower HST 5W40 and 0W40 as I posted above.

Here are the requirements from the updated diesel engine supplement-

"Engine Oil
Engine Oil Selection
For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer recom- mends engine oils that meet the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-10902, and that are API CJ-4 certified and meet the requirements of FCA LLC.

We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as MOPAR or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 or ACEA E9/E7 or ACEA A3/B4 engine oil category is required.

We recommend you use 5W-40 synthetic engine oil such as MOPAR or Shell Rotella that meets FCA Material Standard MS-10902 and the API CJ-4 engine oil category is required."

Before the change it was-
"Engine Oil
Engine Oil Selection
For best performance and maximum protection under all types of operating conditions, the manufacturer recom- mends engine oils that meet the requirements of FCA US Material Standard MS-11106, and that are approved to ACEA C3.

Only use ACEA C3 SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Low Ash engine oil meeting FCA US Material Standard MS-11106 or Pennzoil Ultra Euro L full synthetic 5W-30 motor oil, which is recommended for all operating temperatures. This engine oil improves low temperature starting and vehicle fuel economy.

Only use ACEA C3 5W-30 Synthetic Low Ash engine oil meeting FCA US Material Standard MS-11106 or Pennzoil Ultra Euro L full synthetic 5W-30 motor oil."

My truck is still in warranty, so I want to use the best oil that meets the updated requirements.