20/50 Oil in an Evo? Partially Explained

[Turbofig]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: CBRE
I've learned my lesson, only Brad Penn 20w50 or Amsoil Dominator 15w50, been through countless oil pumps and motors trying to get away with thin oils looking for every last HP.


If thats the case and your driving an Evo 8/9 then you should check out the link from UNDUMMY up above.

If you are talking 600whp+ Drag car, or track dedicated car ONLY then I can see running a 20/50. That dense oil is not needed for a DD car with stock internals (bottom end) IMO, especially if your running a high HTHS oil like Redline. Their 30w is better than most 40w's on the market (correct me if im wrong please) needing a thicker HTHS than 3.8 with stock internals makes no sense to me, especially since OEM recommends M1 10/30 which has a HTHS of 3.2. I AutoX on ocasion, and if I ever get my Evo up at Willow Springs, or Chuckawalla Raceway, I will run RL 10/40. Since the car goes to work and back and I drive within the legal limits (kinda of hehe) I really think the 5/30 RL should be all I need.

Any Other Opinions? They are much appreciated.


Jeff


Your and evo guy and dont know who Curt Brown is? I have read a bunch of your post and I think your stressing a little much on this. Everyone will have an opinion and who's is right is anyones guess. What I take away from all these responses is good luck finding two people to agree and I see a bunch of EVO's running around so mabye there is no right or wrong answer. My old ride made over twice factory power and went 100000 mile on factory fill 5-30, the tranny, and pistons went well before anything oil related. Good luck

 

[Banjupboy]

I own an evo 9 and have found a few problems with the 4g63 motor,the first is the sump is too small and not baffled enough,the second is the oil thermostat letting lots of oil through to cooler at the wrong times,the 30 weight oil is to thin ,when the evo is changing dirrections rapidly,,no baffles ,it can take in air to the oil,if it hits the oil pump at the right moment eg,wot,it can blow the pump,i am a mechanic ,on my own car i tested the oil levels at idle,2000rpm,3000rpm,no serrios problems,so it would seem that its it racing the car,i solved my issues my fitting a tomei thermostat killer ,so the oil runs all the time to the cooler,oil in the rocker cover is no worse than other motors ,i run valvoline 5/40 i over filled sump by 1litre and checked it on several runs that its ok,my car runs 25 psi at idle and a 100psi the rest of the time,when i do a motor upgrade i will fit a bigger baffled sump,with the oils ,mobil 1 is not suitable for worked motors,and i agree with fp oil tests and do not dismiss zddp its used a lot in race motors,

 

[forcedtalon]

I would only go 1/2 quart over full as anything more the crankshaft will start airating the oil and this is not good as well. Stick with a high zinc oil and a heaver oil like your using. On my DSM I see 22 psi hot idle pressure and 84 psi hot at 8k. I would try to get that 100 psi down some as thats not good.

 

[kyoo]

I know this is an old thread, but enjoyed the read through lol. not sure if much has changed over the 3 years or so, but I'm definitely going to be running 5w30 on my near stock evo.

oil starvation etc.. totally different story. running a kiggly hla, may get the stock oil pan baffled though

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: kyoo
I know this is an old thread, but enjoyed the read through lol. not sure if much has changed over the 3 years or so, but I'm definitely going to be running 5w30 on my near stock evo.

oil starvation etc.. totally different story. running a kiggly hla, may get the stock oil pan baffled though


I had an EVO VIII and Ralliart Turbo AWD (4B11). The Evo got everything from PYB to Royal Purple, 5w30 and 10w30. Ran strong with GreddyPro-fec E and full exhaust for well over 250K miles before it was sold. Never had any issues.

 

[kyoo]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: kyoo
I know this is an old thread, but enjoyed the read through lol. not sure if much has changed over the 3 years or so, but I'm definitely going to be running 5w30 on my near stock evo.

oil starvation etc.. totally different story. running a kiggly hla, may get the stock oil pan baffled though


I had an EVO VIII and Ralliart Turbo AWD (4B11). The Evo got everything from PYB to Royal Purple, 5w30 and 10w30. Ran strong with GreddyPro-fec E and full exhaust for well over 250K miles before it was sold. Never had any issues.


what driving conditions? road racing is a LOT different than solo & daily driving & pulls on street or even drag racing

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: kyoo
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: kyoo
I know this is an old thread, but enjoyed the read through lol. not sure if much has changed over the 3 years or so, but I'm definitely going to be running 5w30 on my near stock evo.

oil starvation etc.. totally different story. running a kiggly hla, may get the stock oil pan baffled though


I had an EVO VIII and Ralliart Turbo AWD (4B11). The Evo got everything from PYB to Royal Purple, 5w30 and 10w30. Ran strong with GreddyPro-fec E and full exhaust for well over 250K miles before it was sold. Never had any issues.


what driving conditions? road racing is a LOT different than solo & daily driving & pulls on street or even drag racing


Very true. It was auto crossed maybe once a year and dynoed twice per year. Mostly a DD.

 

[kyoo]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Almost certainly poor oil control with aeration.

Pump is geared to push volume up top to all that valve gear, probably can't drizzle back down quick enough at high rpm.

There were many old school racers who overfilled their sumps to protect against this. I bet an extra quart (if no crank contact) would be cheap insurance.



Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I read the page you linked to at Magnus Motorsports, and they talk about all the issues relating to oil control at high speed and boost pressures that we have been talking around. They seem to have an engineered system to deal with the issues. They don't say what oil grade to use. Do you know what they recommend? If the dry-sump system gives them the oil control they claim, then I doubt they would be advocating Xw50.

The $5000 dry-sump system I don't think is something you need for your car. It sounds as though this system is designed for 10,000+ rpm and 40+ psi boost pressures. They do make it clear that the stock 4g63 oil pump shouldn't be run over 8000 rpm, and that the cylnder head doesn't have enough oil drains. To me the basic problem sounds like oil starvation due to poor drainage from the top of the engine. If the pump runs dry at high speed, it will seize.

The tuners' solution of running Xw50 oil buys a second or two more of safe operation after the oil pickup sucks air before the thicker oil film burns away, leading to metal-metal contact between the gear bushing and shaft.

So what can you do with your mildly modified engine for reasonable cost to protect the oil pump? Some brainstorm ideas:
1. Add an auxiliary oil drain hose from the head back to the sump.
2. Add volume to the oil pan via deeper sump or wings.
3. Add an Accusump to the oil system.
4. Use a vacuum pump to keep crankcase pressure down and improve cylinder head drainage.
5. Decrease the oil pressure setting at the pump regulator valve so oil doesn't get pumped from the pan as quickly.
6. Put some low-friction, self-lubricating coating on the oil pump gear bushings to make them more tolerant of running dry.
7. Use Xw50 oil.

Sad to say, but the Xw50 oil option is the only one that comes at no additional charge, given that you do have to put oil in the engine.


wanted to revisit this topic because I think you guys hit the nail on the head here. evo has massive oil pressure problems, especially right handers + high rpm = no oil near the oil pump, period. it is not the power, it's high sustained g's in right handers

fixes, which I mentioned before, include Kiggly HLA, crank scraper, baffled pan -- don't even need to go too crazy with the pan unless it's pretty much a race car on race tires. Kiggly HLA regulates how much oil goes to the head, leaves more in the pan which solves the head drainage issues. rest is self explanatory.

 

[dailydriver]

^^^How much coin are the multi-stage dry sump systems for those engines??

 

[kyoo]

several thousand