F1 oil ?

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is the engine oil used in Formula 1 cars anything like the oil we run in our everyday cars or is it totally different? would it be thick or thin viscosity?
 
No matter what the oil used you can't compare an F1 engine anything to a passenger engine.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
No matter what the oil used you can't compare an F1 engine anything to a passenger engine.


I have a naturally aspirated pushrod inline 6 that red lines at 5000rpm , though!
 
I haven't kept track of the differences in displacement, power density, boost and turbo charging of F1 vs. IndyCar...but... some IndyCar engines use off-the-shelf Mobil 1 0w40 or Pennzoil 0w40.
 
additionally an f1 car is hooked to auxiliary systems and a complicated startup procedure

the engine is prewarmed and circulated in external pumps to get up to temp the engine and car can't start on its own from room temps.

so there's no need for Multigrade or low temperature performance
 
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What counts more beyond car oils, IMO, is temperature stability, foam stability and pressure stability (specially not dieseling), so to run a thin viscosity, they need a very high VI, maybe MPAO, part Ester base, grade kind of 10w20, max.
 
I'd assume the oil is something pretty exotic given the specific output(500hp/L) and the limited number of engines available for a season without penalties.
Also I believe there is no regulations on what they can use, so to a big F1 team, that's one area where they can pump in some cubic dollars... WAG but I'd think MB spends enough on fluids run a decent indycar team.
 
It's very light, proprietary and secret.

The AMG/Petronas hybrid power unit (don't call them engines any more it seems) used by Mercedes uses an engine oil that defies the laws of physics according to Andy Holmes, Petronas director of research and technology in the UK. At high temperatures it stops thinning out and actually "expands to give more protection".

Some how I doubt the Petronas Syntium brand of oil sold to the public uses the same technology.
 
Originally Posted By: Camprunner
is the engine oil used in Formula 1 cars anything like the oil we run in our everyday cars or is it totally different? would it be thick or thin viscosity?


You would have to be an actual F1 team member, or engineer to know the answer to that question with any certainty. No one here is. So all you're going to get is a bunch of assumptions, guessing and opinions.
 
Mobile did a segment on the F1 broadcast some years ago. And they basically said yes exact formulation is secret but in essence it is the same Mobile 1 you buy at the store. There is no magic unicorn essence molecule that I ever heard of but Maybe Petronas has discovered it!
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Pontual
... very high VI, maybe MPAO, part Ester base, grade kind of 10w20, max.

I trust that was a typo and you meant a 0W-20!


Nope, no typo. There's no need to zero W. There's no short driven, cold climate cranking problems in general at GP. Could even be even stout straight 20 high VI, no need to 0w20, that would decrease VI performance with such high temperatures encountered. The whole thing is mostly considered at racing conditions, not cold starts. That's my guess.
 
Quote:
At high temperatures it stops thinning out and actually "expands to give more protection".
confused2.gif


VII's do that as well and most fluids increase in volume when they get hot.
 
There are labs at the race sites and they are always scrambling around doing stuff. They take frequent samples. The oil is preheated before being pumped into the oil reservoir on the car and with some teams it's topped off while the engine is running. There are adjustments made during this process, thought to be bleed valves. It's very possible that adjustments are made to the components that make up the oil for who knows what reason.

My neighbor travels the season with one of the teams and helps to maintain both one of the race cars and one of the development cars. He works about 10 months of the year with 4 breaks, one of them also for a month. He said the coolant is also a highly guarded secret along with the brake fluid and the fluid that keeps some of the electronics cool. The cooling jobs are all segregated with their own systems.

My neighbor has never divulged anything useful about the details of what's really going on in these more modern cars. He's been in the business since about 1970 when he graduated with a masters degree in engineering. His retirement is going to be the memorabilia he's collected over the years, car parts, numbers, wings, wheels and tires and other stuff. Much of body parts are signed by the drivers and others. Others laughed at him at the time for crating up this stuff during the season and shipping it home but I think he's going to get the last laugh.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
At high temperatures it stops thinning out and actually "expands to give more protection".
confused2.gif


VII's do that as well and most fluids increase in volume when they get hot.


CATERHAM is (and has) claimed that F1 oils actually increase in viscosity when they get hot.

Never has he provided the actual quote, but this is the third or fourth time that I've heard it.

edit...here's the actual quote.

http://www.racer.com/more/racer-magazine-excerpts/item/110857-hybrid-hierarchy

It doesn't state that the viscosity increases at high temperatures.
 
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Originally Posted By: Pontual
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Pontual
... very high VI, maybe MPAO, part Ester base, grade kind of 10w20, max.

I trust that was a typo and you meant a 0W-20!


Nope, no typo. There's no need to zero W. There's no short driven, cold climate cranking problems in general at GP. Could even be even stout straight 20 high VI, no need to 0w20, that would decrease VI performance with such high temperatures encountered. The whole thing is mostly considered at racing conditions, not cold starts. That's my guess.

This^.
Why running 0W when you have auxiliary system that will warm up oil? I am not sure whether it is W20 or W30 or W40, but there is no need to go multigrade.
 
I've read that racing oils all become 0W "by accident" as a result of their having high VIs and superior basestocks.

In this case it's an absolute guess, as they would never bother actually TESTING the MRV and CCS at -40C and -35C respectively...for all we know, it may not even be fluid at freezing temps.
 
All F1 lubes (and fuels) are bespoke by their petroleum partners. There are numerous references to this, such as at the F1 Dictionary, the Autosport and Motosport official magazine sites, oil companies' sites, and likely even team sites. One can even look at the technical regulations for some insight into fuels.

Shell's relationship with Ferrari is fairly long standing. Esso/Mobil deal with McLaren and has for many years. Total deals with Renault and Red Bull. It would be nice if Castrol would get back into the game. The F1 Dictionary gives a partial list of various petroleum companies' involvements in the sport.

Unlike a few other motorsports, what the teams use is what is provided to them by their petroleum partner, since the petroleum partner is required to create those lubes and fuels for them as part of the sponsorship deal.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
All F1 lubes (and fuels) are bespoke by their petroleum partners. There are numerous references to this, such as at the F1 Dictionary, the Autosport and Motosport official magazine sites, oil companies' sites, and likely even team sites. One can even look at the technical regulations for some insight into fuels.

Shell's relationship with Ferrari is fairly long standing. Esso/Mobil deal with McLaren and has for many years. Total deals with Renault and Red Bull. It would be nice if Castrol would get back into the game. The F1 Dictionary gives a partial list of various petroleum companies' involvements in the sport.

Unlike a few other motorsports, what the teams use is what is provided to them by their petroleum partner, since the petroleum partner is required to create those lubes and fuels for them as part of the sponsorship deal.

It would be beneficial for Castrol to go back, since we know that participating in F1 always makes products better. Bridgestone benefited tremendously from participation in F1, as well as Michelin. GY pulled out when they were in war with Bridgestone, and you can see their products deteriorating with time. I was reading article where Michelin still trickles down acquired know-how from F1 days to new products. Pirelli is now doing same. There is no doubt that Mobil1, Shell, Petronas are doing same. I bet all GTL came out from F1.
 
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