New engine breakin high ZDDP oil.

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1977c10phxdriver

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And here we go again! LoL
Just finished building yet another SBC engine for my '77 Silverado. Its a 406, 4 bolt, Scat crank and rods, Comp flat tappet bumpy stick and Edelbrock aluminum heads. My machinist wants me to use either a "breakin oil" or a very high content ZDDP oil.
I'm not at all concerned with today's oils but he kinda sorts is. We both still build non-roller engines with not one cam failure between us yet. But the "so called horror stories" abound.

But anyway, are there any "OTC" oils that meet the ZDDP requirement everyone seems to want? Or a start-up breakin oil that's not $200 a quart? He uses Joe Gibbs oil but is currently out.
Thanks
Mark
 
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http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=518855&highlight=

Quote of a quote, but, 4WIW

“Mobil Delvac MX 15W40 diesel engine oil is remaining at the previous CI-4 Plus API level and will have the higher zinc and phosphorus levels (1200-1500ppm) used in previous years. This is a premium diesel mineral oil and not synthetic.”

Best info I could find on Delvac MX 15W40. Mobil didn't seem to publish anything and didn't respond to queries on their website.

Encouraging as far as it goes, though the forum post is dated Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:50 am. , and CI-4 Plus is formulated to deal with especially high soot loadings, so will presumably have especially high detergent/dispersent levels, which might be antagonistic to zinc and P action.
 
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Thanks ducked. Things change so fast these days, oil may not be close to what it was last week!
I've been using the buck 99 Wallymart in my current 355 oil burner for many years. But with what my new one cost to build, im looking at a better oil for a while at least.
 
Valvoline VR1 conventional (silver bottle) 10w30 has zddp concentration that is similar to what would have been in oils in the 1970's.

Or buy a bottle of Redline oil supplement or ZDDPlus and dose up whatever SN oil you want to use.

I agree with your machinist that Joe Gibbs Driven has a good system of break-in lubes. But they are expensive.
 
Make sure the valve spring seat pressure is less than 120 pounds. This is what kills new camshafts, and yes I have camshafts ruined in the first 5 minutes after first start up.
 
In my experience neither Comp nor Lucas break-in oil are worth a hoot. Lots of lost lifters with both ...

So what are the valve spring specs as installed?

If you want to chance a multi-grade, I've had good luck with Chevron Supreme 10W-30. But in today's world, I wouldn't do it...

The last few engines I broke in were on Valvoline VR-1 straight 30.

http://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-VV223-6PK-VR1-Racing-Motor/dp/B00DJ4FOFA

Order two cases and get free shipping. No VII's to shear down. All the Add-pak you can ask for, etc.
smile.gif


But the big deal is to double check that all the pushrods are spinning as they should on fire up. If it's on the engine stand, fine, just fill the float bowl and light it for a moment with the valve covers off and watch those push rods. If one is not turning, shut it off immediately and find out why...

You can fill with water and double back a long old radiator hose from in to out. I fire dry as I know I'm shutting off in less than a minute, but some folks are not comfortable dry firing ...

I lay old towels on the exhaust to catch most of the oil from the rockers. Use oil clips if you have them. It's a bit of a chore to clean afterward, but not bad.

You can do the single spring thing too. But that means air and a top spring retainer tool and a change. It's up to you... But even with single springs, if you have one pushrod not turning, you'll waste the cam/lifter in a few moments...

Install a magnetic drain plug. Run that first oil fill for a 100 miles or so. Pull the magnet and dump the oil. If the magnet is covered with sharp shards, you have a cam/lifter going... If only little iron fuzz, your OK as that's wear metal from the cylinder and rings, etc.

Second fill of same oil, new filter. Run 500 to 1,000 miles and then move on to your selected normal running oil like Rotella T5, or VR-1 multi-grade, or M1, or whatever...
 
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Motorcycle or ATV oil. Its a 40 grade and usually conforms to obsolete API SF/SG. If you uuse some assy lube there will be enough moly in there floating around.

And yes - run in with light valve springs if you are more than xxx lbs over the nose.

Sounds like your engine builder guy read too many Super Chevy magazines
smile.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: Toaster_Jer
Only maybe because he recommends ideas that differ from yours. There's more than one way to do things thus the Bitog.


You know better than that, or at least you should. You've posted the link before in previous discussions but apparently you don't remember the points that were made which discredit the site. Even if there was or is some applicability to an engine, the testing methodology and complete lack of error analysis renders any "results" meaningless.

But some people like the visceral feel of seeing a screeching and smoking state-fair apparatus over ASTM standards, so from that standpoint I guess you got me there.
 
Well time will tell. The site continues to grow. If the information proves fallible over time then we shall see. No one has proved to me that his facts are wrong any more than yours are right. I prefer his suggestions over just guessing and winging it. No disrespect, just my unbiased opinion. I have no oil brand loyalty and nothing to gain.
 
No disrespect here either.

My BMW uses oil that meets Longlife-01, should I ignore that spec and go by what that site tells me is the best oil?

I mean, am I winging it by choosing an oil that meets a certain spec such as LL-01? What about when I chose an SN oil for my other cars, such as for my old Sienna. Is that winging it too? I didn't realize I was doing all this guessing by choosing oils that meet specifications.

What property of the oil is being demonstrated by that site's test that is relevant to the performance of an oil in my engine?

Originally Posted By: Toaster_Jer
Well time will tell. The site continues to grow. If the information proves fallible over time then we shall see. No one has proved to me that his facts are wrong any more than yours are right. I prefer his suggestions over just guessing and winging it. No disrespect, just my unbiased opinion. I have no oil brand loyalty and nothing to gain.
 
I fully understand. I don't think everyone who looks at the Blog, reads it fully. Rat instructs ones to scroll down the list until they find one that meets their oil spec. If one was looking for a diesel oil for instance, scroll down the list till one comes up. I know many are needing like a 5w-40 oil and their particular oil of choice may be way down the list. I understand that. Right now their is one at #16. 5W40 Mag 1, FMX, European Formula, API SN, ACEA C3-08, synthetic, for gas and diesel engines that may work for some, I don't know the particulars their. Their is also suggestions on #29. Eliminating BMW M3/M5 Rod Bearing Failures. Maybe all this is just misunderstandings. I think the Blog is increasingly becoming helpful. I appreciate your comments.
 
Originally Posted By: Toaster_Jer
Well time will tell. The site continues to grow.

Where is his error analysis, though? No one can prove that his facts are wrong because he doesn't release methodology or an error analysis. We are expected to have faith in him, I guess. I can't even verify that his results are repeatable or reproducible, much less correct.
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno


The last few engines I broke in were on Valvoline VR-1 straight 30......No VII's to shear down.



Sure its good stuff, but why is the lack of VII shearing a particular advantage for a break-in oil?

I'd have thought it was more likely to be an advantage long-term, in general use.

(I'd certainly use it here long term if I could get it, and it wasn't too expensive, which is probably unlikely.)
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Toaster_Jer
Well time will tell. The site continues to grow.

Where is his error analysis, though? No one can prove that his facts are wrong because he doesn't release methodology or an error analysis. We are expected to have faith in him, I guess. I can't even verify that his results are repeatable or reproducible, much less correct.


A fatal problem that is always ignored or not addressed.
 
The boogeyman of shear in regards to the use of VII is overplayed IMO. It is going to be engine dependent and also dependent on the type of VII used. Blanket assumptions that "OMG it uses VII and it's going to shear!" are just that, blanket assumptions with no regard to the specific application nor oil.

Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
The last few engines I broke in were on Valvoline VR-1 straight 30......No VII's to shear down.

Sure its good stuff, but why is the lack of VII shearing a particular advantage for a break-in oil?

I'd have thought it was more likely to be an advantage long-term, in general use.

(I'd certainly use it here long term if I could get it, and it wasn't too expensive, which is probably unlikely.)
 
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