guidance on additive start up rattle

[NewC-05]

Long story short, I’m trying to shorten the duration of sound on start up without having to resort to Pennzoil/MMO combo. I have M1 0w-40 in it now and would like to add an additive like BG MOA? Liqui-Moly MOS2? Cera Tec? Something else? before trying a thicker oil. And yes, having the dealer actually fix the problem would have been ideal, unfortunately this is the hand I’ve been dealt... thoughts and comments appreciated. thanks,

I’ve done the following so far with regards to oil/oil filters…

(23,750) Ran Pennzoil Ultra full synthetic with a Fram XG-3506 (to help clean any possible sludge)

(28,500) Drained 1qt and added 1qt Marvel Mystery Oil 500 miles before oil change (to further help clean any sludge)

(29,000) Switched to Pennzoil Gold with Fram XG-3506 filter

(30,250) Drained 1qt and added 1qt Marvel Mystery Oil 1000 miles before oil change (Pennzoil Gold and MMO had the best results, it quieted down the rattle to a split second)

(31,000) Ran Pennzoil Gold with Fram XG-3506

(32,000) Switched to Castrol Titanium with a Fram XG-3506.

(33,800) Dealership replaced the cam actuator sprocket only (12589782) cleared P0017 code. changed oil with AcDelco 5w-30 Blend and PF46e filter noise still present !!!

(34,000) 300 miles later drained 1qt and put AcDelco 0w-20 Blend (so a combo of 5w-30 and 0w-20)

(34,100) 100 miles later drained and replaced with Castrol Magnatec 5w-30 with the same dealer acdelco PF46e (which I drained and reinstalled)

(34,200) 100 miles later replaced to the acdelco “classic” PF46 which is about ½” longer and internal cage is metal vs plastic on the “e” (did not add make up oil)

(34,500) 300 miles later drained 1qt and put Castrol Magnatec 0w-20 (so a combo of 5w-30 and 0w-20)

(34,850) 350 miles later switched to Mobile 1 0w-40 with PF46e filter

 

[AZjeff]

Have you tried the OEM filter?

 

[440Magnum]

What vehicle and engine?

If you're getting "start up sound," and its due to air in the lash adjusters or cam phasers, then changing oils or throwing snake oil at it isn't going to help. You need a filter that has a reliable anti-drainback valve that seals fully (silicone rubber, for example.) Or if it doesn't use an ADBV, just live with it because it is actually harmless. Air in the hydraulic lash adjusters may sound obnoxious, but it doesn't hurt anything at all. Some engines just do that no matter what filter you run.

 

[UltrafanUK]

OEM oil filter and read the warranty terms about oil type. If it's out of warranty then try a major brand Synthoil, GTL base or HC synthetic that is recommended in the oil finder page of the web site.

I do use Ceratec, BUT it's unlikely to prevent a cold start rattle issue.

 

[NewC-05]

yes, PF46 and PF46e. just picked up a Fram XG-3506

2012 Chevy Colorado 2.9L Atlas

i should mention once the rattle stops, it turns into a slapping noise above idle until road noise drowns it out.in park with light revving its audible. but with no check engine light = no more warranty work, they consider the sound to be "subjective" since the truck runs fine otherwise.

 

[Donald]

Run a quality synthetic oil of the proper weight and filter with silicone ADBV. Forget additives or changing the oil weight beyond what is in the owners manual (temp adjusted).

Bring it to the dealer and ask them about the rattle. Search for TSB or on vehicle specific forum.

 

[NewC-05]

yes, it was in for the P0017 code. IMO they did not change all components associated with the timing chain while they had the motor apart. i.e. guides and tensioner. after a few more experiments with oils i will bring it back,the warranty runs out in Oct.2016, but in the meantime i was hoping for a miracle

 

[NewC-05]

just a quick update for those interested... so far nothing has helped

(35,200) 350 miles later switched to Fram XG-3506 filter (did not add make up oil)

(35,300) 100 miles later switched to Pennzoil Gold and Fram XG-3506 filter 16oz MMO (noise actually got louder this time)

(35,400) 100 miles later drained add fresh Pennzoil Gold and PF46e filter

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: NewC-05
just a quick update for those interested... so far nothing has helped

(35,200) 350 miles later switched to Fram XG-3506 filter (did not add make up oil)

(35,300) 100 miles later switched to Pennzoil Gold and Fram XG-3506 filter 16oz MMO (noise actually got louder this time)

(35,400) 100 miles later drained add fresh Pennzoil Gold and PF46e filter


Sorry, but if it is a mechanical problem there is no fix but to have it repaired.

 

[NewC-05]

Agreed. After reading so many positive outcomes on the I-net for noisy lifter/timing chain “fixes” just by switching oils weights or different/better filters or supplementing with additives, I was hoping it would have helped with my issue, guess not, but I had to try … my next step is the dealership/GM customer service to see what my options are since its still under warranty until Oct.

 

[virginoil]

Originally Posted By: NewC-05
yes,
i should mention once the rattle stops, it turns into a slapping noise above idle until road noise drowns it out.in park with light revving its audible. but with no check engine light = no more warranty work, they consider the sound to be "subjective" since the truck runs fine otherwise.


It is demonic possession you need an Exorcist.

Go to your local catholic parish and have it assessed.

Immediately like now !!

 

[Fsharp]

Sounds like your oil needs stabilized. There's a product sold specifically for that, but it's slipped my mind.

 

[BrocLuno]

Try and Napa Gold filter (WIX) and see if the noise is diminished... Then switch to Delo400 15W-40. It'll be the same 40 when hot, but at least 15W when cold and that might do it

Delo has been my quiet motor oil for a long time. Will be no mileage hit on the 0W-40 you are running now. May be a whole lot quieter

 

[NewC-05]

Thought I’d post an update. Nothing better or worse to report, the truck runs/drives perfect with no other issues. Since the repair I’ve put 18k miles on it. bottom line, accept the noise and move on lol I've decided to stick with PP Gold and Fram XG-3506 for future OCI's …. I have oil reports, just haven’t had the time to convert and post …

35,281 PP Gold/XG-3506 w/16oz of MMO - no change
35,335 PP Gold/PF46 - no change
38,745 Dealer oil change ACDelco oil/PF46 - no change but surprisingly a very good oil report for a 7kOCI (will post later)
45,728 PP conventional oil/TG3506 w/MOA additive – no change but for the first time I saw a 3/4qt oil consumption for a 3,300 OCI
49,500 PP Euro-L/XG-3506 - no change
52,800 PP Gold w/WIX 5104xp - no change

 

[CT8]

Threw away a chunk of money with no results? Oil is oil and the best thing additives do is nothing harmful.

 

[NewC-05]

That’s one way to look at it. I’ m not sure what is intended with the comment, but I consider the knowledge and learning experiences I picked up as results in my book

 

[Ducked]

IF its due to oil not pumping up your hydraulic tappets and/or not reaching your valve gear quick enough, then "conventional wisdom" would have you go for a thinner oil. Unfortunately thinner oils are generally noisier (and conventional wisdom is probably wrong).

IF the noise continues long after startup (which you seem to say above), it probably isn't due to oil not pumping up your hydraulic tappets and/or not reaching your valve gear quick enough, and you might like thicker oil.

IF your hydraulic tappets might be clogged, you might likr thicker oil with a lot of detergent in it (or you need to clean them)

You might like a 15W/40 HDEO.

IF really motivated, you might like a prelube system (pressurised reservoir) , with a 15W/40 HDEO.

 

[Lubener]

Originally Posted By: Ducked
IF its due to oil not pumping up your hydraulic tappets and/or not reaching your valve gear quick enough, then "conventional wisdom" would have you go for a thinner oil. Unfortunately thinner oils are generally noisier (and conventional wisdom is probably wrong).

IF the noise continues long after startup (which you seem to say above), it probably isn't due to oil not pumping up your hydraulic tappets and/or not reaching your valve gear quick enough, and you might like thicker oil.

IF your hydraulic tappets might be clogged, you might likr thicker oil with a lot of detergent in it (or you need to clean them)



IF really motivated, you might like a prelube system (pressurised reservoir) , with a 15W/40 HDEO.


If the tappets are "clogged", why in the world would you want to use a thicker oil??? Makes no sense. The noise being heard is the amount of time it takes for oil to reach the tappets or they just plain have issues. Heavier oil will take more time to reach that oil and make matters worse. That's physics 101.

 

[Jetronic]

I suppose he wants to prevent the tappets from draining their oil

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Lubener
The noise being heard is the amount of time it takes for oil to reach the tappets or they just plain have issues. Heavier oil will take more time to reach that oil and make matters worse. That's physics 101.


I don't know what the noise being heard is. Neither do you, and neither does the OP, but he seems to say that some unacceptable noise is persistent.

He's exhaustively demonstrated to his own satisfaction the null effect of many, many skinny oils and mystery flushing stuffs.

The next steps seem to be to either to take his hydraulic tappets out and bench clean them (a hassle with no guarantees) or go for a thicker oil which will probably quieten things generally.

I believe the most widely available thick oils are 15W/40 HDEO which are generally high in detergent and often recommended for de-sludging/varnishing, so IF his hydraulic tappets are clogged HDEO MIGHT, over time, free them up, and meantime it'll probably quiet them.

IF heavier oil will pump up the hydraulic tappets more slowly (assuming that's what you meant by "Heavier oil will take more time to reach that oil " which doesn't appear to make any sense) this won't necessarily stop it having a cleaning effect over time.

In the case of clogged hydraulic tappets, where the clearances are unknown and perhaps very narrow, heavier oil might take longer to pressurise them, though this implies they must be clear enough to have drained down.

For valve gear generally, my impression of the general drift of discussions on here is that the "heavier oil gets there more slowly" thing is now pretty much discredited unless the oils pumpability limits are exceeded.