Do hydraulics require zddp?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Nov 29, 2009
Messages
7,268
I have a gravely ztr with hydro gear pumps and wheel motors. The manual recommends regular 20w50 motor oil or 15w50 synthetic motor oil, but I don't think it mentions anything about the API rating. I picked up some mobil one 15w50 synthetic oil and it is API SN. Looking on the internet it says hydro gear recommends API-SL 20w50, but I don't know how old that article was. For some reason these don't take actual hydraulic fluid, you will mess them up if you do. I think hydraulic fluid is too thin.
 
ZDDP will be needed if the fluid/parts act above 85C-90C, below that, it won't form the layer or glass film. Some hydraulic systems really need ZDDP as substitute for EP, even though it is AW, helps to protect under pressure a heat. Most hydraulic fluids and atf has the higher P lower Zn ZDDP formulas, but as you said, has low viscosity to some applications.
 
Originally Posted By: Pontual
ZDDP will be needed if the fluid/parts act above 85C-90C, below that, it won't form the layer or glass film. Some hydraulic systems really need ZDDP as substitute for EP, even though it is AW, helps to protect under pressure a heat. Most hydraulic fluids and atf has the higher P lower Zn ZDDP formulas, but as you said, has low viscosity to some applications.


90c is roughly 190 degrees I believe, yes these hydros run a good bit higher than that. So is the latest api SN spec still sufficient? I could go to autozone and get get a motorcycle oil. I believe that is SL rated
 
Your timing is amazing. I was in Orielly's this afternoon, and another gentleman was there. He told the employees there he needed hydraulic fluid. When they asked what kind he needed, he said it was for his mower, and it called for 20W-50. The lady working there walked over to the 5-gallon pails of hydraulic fluid to check. Trying to be helpful, I went with her, and we checked the different pails there. "20W-50," I said, "That's motor oil viscosity, not hydraulic oil."

Went back to the gentleman, and asked if he was looking for engine oil or hydraulic oil. He said it was not for the engine, but for the reservoir on the mower, and that it had 20W-50 stamped right there on the side of it, next to where it was put in. He pulled out a piece of paper, and he had written it down from the manual. 20W-50 calling for CD spec. He said it was for a zero turn mower.

When he asked what he should do, the lady told him to check in the manual and see if they called for synthetic oil or not.

I asked what 20W-50 oil they had that was synthetic, and she said the motorcycle oil. I looked at her and said you think the manufacturer wants to use motorcycle oil in their mowers? She said the synthetic would handle the high heat.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: njohnson
Your timing is amazing. I was in Orielly's this afternoon, and another gentleman was there. He told the employees there he needed hydraulic fluid. When they asked what kind he needed, he said it was for his mower, and it called for 20W-50. The lady working there walked over to the 5-gallon pails of hydraulic fluid to check. Trying to be helpful, I went with her, and we checked the different pails there. "20W-50," I said, "That's motor oil viscosity, not hydraulic oil."

Went back to the gentleman, and asked if he was looking for engine oil or hydraulic oil. He said it was not for the engine, but for the reservoir on the mower, and that it had 20W-50 stamped right there on the side of it, next to where it was put in. He pulled out a piece of paper, and he had written it down from the manual. 20W-50 calling for CD spec. He said it was for a zero turn mower.

When he asked what he should do, the lady told him to check in the manual and see if they called for synthetic oil or not.

I asked what 20W-50 oil they had that was synthetic, and she said the motorcycle oil. I looked at her and said you think the manufacturer wants to use motorcycle oil in their mowers? She said the synthetic would handle the high heat.




CD is an obsolete oil made in the 50's.
 
Mobil 1 15W/50 has a substantial dose of ZDDP......In the analysis I have seen, it is [censored] near identical to their 20W/50 motorcycle oil. If something call for 20W/50, I would not hesitate to use Mobil 1 15W/50.
 
I don't think it matters much in that application. I believe they use the higher viscosity to achieve protection, more than the chemistry.
 
I just went ahead and used it Probably the same stuff that was in it originally anyways. The stuff was pretty dirty, so I'm glad I changed it.
 
I've worked in the fluid power industry for over 30 years, and would like to point out an interesting fact I learned 25 years ago. I got this from a plant which makes the piston pumps/motors and geroter/geroller pump/motors used in many mower applications.

They learned that a "few" hours of operation, loaded, with a 20W50 engine oil dramatically increased the life of the product. There were industrial customers who actually did a full day "break in" with motor oil before switching the motors to a machine running AW hydraulic oil.

They never determined a CERTAIN cause; it was GUESSED that the high moly (or maybe ZDDP) package burnished itself into the surfaces.

MolaKule is our most valuable resource here. His ISO 150 suggestion may be the best. My concern would be with cold startup situations; cavitation does extreme damage if it won't flow through the lines. These probably have charge pumps which are less bothered by otherwise excessive viscosity.

If it were my mower, I think I would use a conventional diesel motor oil, perhaps a synthetic blend in 15W40, Rotella T, Delo 400, or Delvac. Hydraulic systems shear multi-viscosity oils rapidly (in the time frame of industrial hydraulics which often run 24/7/365) and higher VI synthetics don't stay that way long ... maybe 500 hours (?) of operation.
 
Quote:
My concern would be with cold startup situations; cavitation does extreme damage if it won't flow through the lines. These probably have charge pumps which are less bothered by otherwise excessive viscosity.


I would not think it a concern for the Texas environment.

Now maybe in Canada or Alaska???
 
From what I've seen in different service documents, Hydro-Gear has been suggesting synthetic over conventional in a lighter grade to help in cold environments. They still suggest a warm-up before use below freezing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top