I'm upgrading the ignition points in my car to electronic. any real advantage to an MSD system over a Pertronix style? (other than to drain your wallet) and, with the MSD, I don't see a real advantage to their separate CDI box (like the 6AL) over a new MSD Billet distributor with the built in module. the MSD system costs $500 either way (separate pieces vs all-in-one); the Pertronix is $100 plus the cost of rebuilding my distributor...
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upgrading ignition: Pertronix vs MSD
- Thread starter tomcat27
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why? i would make sure nothing is creating induction problem first ,temperature wise or electricity wise
No, I have used a number of the Pertronix systems and they work very nicely for a decent amount of money. They are of good quality in my experience...
BurrWinder
BurrWinder
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
I'm upgrading the ignition points in my car to electronic. any real advantage to an MSD system over a Pertronix style? (other than to drain your wallet) and, with the MSD, I don't see a real advantage to their separate CDI box (like the 6AL) over a new MSD Billet distributor with the built in module. the MSD system costs $500 either way (separate pieces vs all-in-one); the Pertronix is $100 plus the cost of rebuilding my distributor...
I know a lot of people that are happy with Pertronix, but I worry about electronics in the hot, ozone-filled, harsh environment under a distributor cap. The MSD remote box is big, well-cooled, and can be isolated from EMI sources. I'm hoping mine lasts a long, long time.
FWIW, I was not expecting to notice any performance improvement when I installed an MSD6AL on my '66 Polara. It had already been converted to Mopar factory electronic ignition (70s vintage), and I'd also used GM HEI triggered from the Mopar distributor. Those worked OK, but both are only available aftermarket these days and quality of the parts really seems to be slipping- the last few HEI modules I had only lasted a few years each. But it actually does run (especially idle and at throttle tip-in) noticeably better with the 6AL. The whole multi-spark thing really does have some benefit after all, at least with carbureted engines and moderate-to-big cams. I'm using a stock Chrysler distributor with the electronic reluctor pickup that Chrysler systems use (MSD is compatible with it), and a stock coil. MSD will also use points to trigger it just fine, and points will last essentially forever when they don't have to carry the full current of the coil. The box is the only thing that really has to be bought, unless your distributor is too far gone to use without a big overhaul, or you want the added timing stability of an electronic pickup. The MSD box also has a tach output ready to go, and a shut-down lead that you can hook to a hidden kill switch for security if you want. Its a pretty nice setup, and while expensive I don't think its extreme overkill.
I'm upgrading the ignition points in my car to electronic. any real advantage to an MSD system over a Pertronix style? (other than to drain your wallet) and, with the MSD, I don't see a real advantage to their separate CDI box (like the 6AL) over a new MSD Billet distributor with the built in module. the MSD system costs $500 either way (separate pieces vs all-in-one); the Pertronix is $100 plus the cost of rebuilding my distributor...
I know a lot of people that are happy with Pertronix, but I worry about electronics in the hot, ozone-filled, harsh environment under a distributor cap. The MSD remote box is big, well-cooled, and can be isolated from EMI sources. I'm hoping mine lasts a long, long time.
FWIW, I was not expecting to notice any performance improvement when I installed an MSD6AL on my '66 Polara. It had already been converted to Mopar factory electronic ignition (70s vintage), and I'd also used GM HEI triggered from the Mopar distributor. Those worked OK, but both are only available aftermarket these days and quality of the parts really seems to be slipping- the last few HEI modules I had only lasted a few years each. But it actually does run (especially idle and at throttle tip-in) noticeably better with the 6AL. The whole multi-spark thing really does have some benefit after all, at least with carbureted engines and moderate-to-big cams. I'm using a stock Chrysler distributor with the electronic reluctor pickup that Chrysler systems use (MSD is compatible with it), and a stock coil. MSD will also use points to trigger it just fine, and points will last essentially forever when they don't have to carry the full current of the coil. The box is the only thing that really has to be bought, unless your distributor is too far gone to use without a big overhaul, or you want the added timing stability of an electronic pickup. The MSD box also has a tach output ready to go, and a shut-down lead that you can hook to a hidden kill switch for security if you want. Its a pretty nice setup, and while expensive I don't think its extreme overkill.
tomcat27
Thread starter
why am I upgrading? ignition points don't bother me at all; certainly they are simple and easy to diagnose. but, since I am significantly upgrading the engine, cooling, fuel, exhaust, electrical systems and driveline; it makes sense to me to also address the ignition system.
I agree with 440Mag. they are nice.. just depends on how much $ U want to spend/get out of your setup... A way better than stock style/no maint. system or what he said...
BurrWinder
BurrWinder
Originally Posted By: tomcat27
I'm upgrading the ignition points in my car to electronic. any real advantage to an MSD system over a Pertronix style? (other than to drain your wallet) and, with the MSD, I don't see a real advantage to their separate CDI box (like the 6AL) over a new MSD Billet distributor with the built in module. the MSD system costs $500 either way (separate pieces vs all-in-one); the Pertronix is $100 plus the cost of rebuilding my distributor...
I've used both the billet msd and the seperate box msd box style for racing. Either works great. For a street or street/strip car the billet is more than enough. Heck a tuned HEI is plenty too. Up to you but I don't think you will see much benefit using a 6AL or similar unless you want to easily change out rev limit chips.
Last billet msd I bought was $300 something. Been about 5-7 years though, but $500 is a big price jump.
I'm upgrading the ignition points in my car to electronic. any real advantage to an MSD system over a Pertronix style? (other than to drain your wallet) and, with the MSD, I don't see a real advantage to their separate CDI box (like the 6AL) over a new MSD Billet distributor with the built in module. the MSD system costs $500 either way (separate pieces vs all-in-one); the Pertronix is $100 plus the cost of rebuilding my distributor...
I've used both the billet msd and the seperate box msd box style for racing. Either works great. For a street or street/strip car the billet is more than enough. Heck a tuned HEI is plenty too. Up to you but I don't think you will see much benefit using a 6AL or similar unless you want to easily change out rev limit chips.
Last billet msd I bought was $300 something. Been about 5-7 years though, but $500 is a big price jump.
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I dont know anything about Petronix. Never used them. As to the MSD boxes, they do work excellently. MSD stands for Multi Spark Discharge, meaning multiple sparks emitted which helps burn all the fuel in the cylinder. That might be one advantage over the Petronix box, if they dont have that feature.
Regular coils have multiple cycles too -That oscillation tail. Only the first spark that ignites the fuel does anything. everything else is a waste of current. Ive never had luck with " street" aftermarket igniotion junk. Proper OEM does best or go to a crank triggered system.
Tomcat:
I have installed and used MSD distributors and the MSD 6 series ignition controllers for about the last 20 years. All of my experience is in building performance Chevrolet engines.
The 6 series controller will always give a much better start and idle sequence than any standard static controller such as points or a simple electronic module. I think its well worth it for that alone.
Once you are off idle, the MSD distributors timing advance setup is super reliable, repeatable and adjustable. There really is no competitor.
The bearing and bushing setup in the billet distributors is super tight and smooth, really nice. On a Chevy the shaft endplay and wobble is important, and the MSD has none. Not sure about your application. The MSD dist also has oil gallery o-rings to retain oil and pressure. Your application likely doesn't have/need this.
Not going with a MSD distributor and box/coil of your choice is never going to perform as well. But budgets are a concern.
For a simple setup, I would look at a Davis Unified distributor setup, if they have one for your application. It's just a HEI setup for non-GM engines. At least then you will have a setup with an excellent working advance curve and new bushings. He used to spin my distributors on his distributor dyno back in the 80s in his garage. Great folks.
I have installed and used MSD distributors and the MSD 6 series ignition controllers for about the last 20 years. All of my experience is in building performance Chevrolet engines.
The 6 series controller will always give a much better start and idle sequence than any standard static controller such as points or a simple electronic module. I think its well worth it for that alone.
Once you are off idle, the MSD distributors timing advance setup is super reliable, repeatable and adjustable. There really is no competitor.
The bearing and bushing setup in the billet distributors is super tight and smooth, really nice. On a Chevy the shaft endplay and wobble is important, and the MSD has none. Not sure about your application. The MSD dist also has oil gallery o-rings to retain oil and pressure. Your application likely doesn't have/need this.
Not going with a MSD distributor and box/coil of your choice is never going to perform as well. But budgets are a concern.
For a simple setup, I would look at a Davis Unified distributor setup, if they have one for your application. It's just a HEI setup for non-GM engines. At least then you will have a setup with an excellent working advance curve and new bushings. He used to spin my distributors on his distributor dyno back in the 80s in his garage. Great folks.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Regular coils have multiple cycles too -That oscillation tail.
MSD has multiple pulses, each with its own oscillation tail. Only effective from idle up to about 2500 RPM, and it reduces the number of pulses as RPM increases until it finally drops to one per combustion cycle. Its a noticeable help when the mixture isn't perfect, when there's a lot of cam overlap, etc.
Originally Posted By: Srt20
Heck a tuned HEI is plenty too. Up to you but I don't think you will see much benefit using a 6AL or similar unless you want to easily change out rev limit chips.
The current generation MSD6AL doesn't have "chips" you have to swap anymore. There's a covered pair of switches that you turn with a small screwdriver to set the rev limit in 100 RPM increments- VERY much better. The box is also about 30% smaller than the old MSD6AL.
Regular coils have multiple cycles too -That oscillation tail.
MSD has multiple pulses, each with its own oscillation tail. Only effective from idle up to about 2500 RPM, and it reduces the number of pulses as RPM increases until it finally drops to one per combustion cycle. Its a noticeable help when the mixture isn't perfect, when there's a lot of cam overlap, etc.
Originally Posted By: Srt20
Heck a tuned HEI is plenty too. Up to you but I don't think you will see much benefit using a 6AL or similar unless you want to easily change out rev limit chips.
The current generation MSD6AL doesn't have "chips" you have to swap anymore. There's a covered pair of switches that you turn with a small screwdriver to set the rev limit in 100 RPM increments- VERY much better. The box is also about 30% smaller than the old MSD6AL.
I had a 6-AL and then an Ignitor II for the Bug, back when it had a distributor. The MSD box failed and stranded me. The Pertronix never missed a beat and still runs today in one of Dad's Bugs.
I think Pertronix ignition components are just fine.
Going distributorless is even better and actually much simpler in the long run, imho.
edit: Pertronix sells a multispark box, too, if that's a concern. They also have the Ignitor III now if you want even more control.
I think Pertronix ignition components are just fine.
Going distributorless is even better and actually much simpler in the long run, imho.
edit: Pertronix sells a multispark box, too, if that's a concern. They also have the Ignitor III now if you want even more control.
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Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
But it actually does run (especially idle and at throttle tip-in) noticeably better with the 6AL. The whole multi-spark thing really does have some benefit after all, at least with carbureted engines and moderate-to-big cams... MSD will also use points to trigger it just fine, and points will last essentially forever when they don't have to carry the full current of the coil. The box is the only thing that really has to be bought, unless your distributor is too far gone to use without a big overhaul, or you want the added timing stability of an electronic pickup.
I had the exact same experience as 440Magnum with the MSD 6AL on a stock, high-mileage '87 Caprice. That was a carbureted 350 with the external-coil HEI. I also used MSD on a street-strip Pontiac 400, triggered by a new point-type distributor.
Neither ever gave any trouble. The benefit of using the MSD box with a stock setup is that you can just unplug a few wires and drive home if the box fails.
But it actually does run (especially idle and at throttle tip-in) noticeably better with the 6AL. The whole multi-spark thing really does have some benefit after all, at least with carbureted engines and moderate-to-big cams... MSD will also use points to trigger it just fine, and points will last essentially forever when they don't have to carry the full current of the coil. The box is the only thing that really has to be bought, unless your distributor is too far gone to use without a big overhaul, or you want the added timing stability of an electronic pickup.
I had the exact same experience as 440Magnum with the MSD 6AL on a stock, high-mileage '87 Caprice. That was a carbureted 350 with the external-coil HEI. I also used MSD on a street-strip Pontiac 400, triggered by a new point-type distributor.
Neither ever gave any trouble. The benefit of using the MSD box with a stock setup is that you can just unplug a few wires and drive home if the box fails.
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