After seeing how bad kelly clarkson did on saturday night live, I believe alot of singers must use electronics to "enhance" their voice while cutting an album. She sounds excellent on the radio altough. I dont know much about the music industry, but I think there is so much manipulation that can be done with singers voices, they could make pee wee herman sound good. Anyone who knows how they make singers sound good, fill me in.
How do music producers make singers sound good?
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There are tools like Antares Autotune that allow producers to "correct" the pitch of the vocalist's voice. Thing is, vocals processed in this manner sound really synthetic and phony - like that "Believe" song by Cher, or any song by Shania Twain or Ashlee Simpson. Many female pop vocals are so pitch-processed that they don't even sound like people singing anymore.
I don't know how people can buy records that sound that bad.
m
I don't know how people can buy records that sound that bad.
m
Also remember that multitrack recording allows you to punch in and out 1 phrase at a time. I used to do quite a few recording sessions in my earlier days. It was not uncommon to work on a tougher section and cut 50 or 60 times until it was just right. Another method is called stacking the vocals. You do several complete takes and blend from there. Just a tidbit from my traveling days...
Acoustics play a big part in sound quality. I didn't hear her on SNL, but it wouldn't surprise me if her sound people didn't take the time to set up properly. A different venue can have a dramatically different sound.
Micro editing at the digital level, compilation of many takes into one, pitch correction, multiple compression and limiting processing audio chains, many chances to get 'it' right.
Live... soundcheck and one shot at the performance,
Although autotune can still be used on live dates as well.
Auto tune sounds 'reedy' on a voice. It only kicks in when it detects a note out of tolerance and 'bends it back in.
The Cher 'Believe' vocal effect was a vocoder not autotune.
Live... soundcheck and one shot at the performance,
Although autotune can still be used on live dates as well.
Auto tune sounds 'reedy' on a voice. It only kicks in when it detects a note out of tolerance and 'bends it back in.
The Cher 'Believe' vocal effect was a vocoder not autotune.
But we have yet to invent what will make Britney sound like Céline...
A "doctored up" CD will sound better on a cheap stereo/radio than on a really good stereo. The reason is that a good stereo will "reveal" all of the flaws that are transparent on a lessor system.
I have found that the music from true "artists" (Pink Floyd, Bill Joel, Stacey Kent, Diana Krall, Michael Buble, etc.) sounds so much better than the music from artists who are "manufactured" by the marketing gurus.
American Idol is a brilliant marketing idea. People watch the show, get hooked, then buy the CD. Kelly Clarkson, or any of the other Idols, would never have made it any other way.
I have found that the music from true "artists" (Pink Floyd, Bill Joel, Stacey Kent, Diana Krall, Michael Buble, etc.) sounds so much better than the music from artists who are "manufactured" by the marketing gurus.
American Idol is a brilliant marketing idea. People watch the show, get hooked, then buy the CD. Kelly Clarkson, or any of the other Idols, would never have made it any other way.
That big giant board has a lot to do with how a persons voice "sounds". If they sing out of tune, well it will be out of tune. But the tamber or their voice can be enhanced greatly with the right mix.
Same goes with bands. If you go out and listen to live music much you can tell who knows how to operate the board and who doesn't.
True singers/muscians will sound good without any mixing. Think of stuff like opera where there are no microphones, only the voice.
Most of todays singers will never be able to release an unplugged album becuase they suck to bad.
Look at the difference between ashley and jessica. Jessica Simpson can hold a tune without any backup. Ashley couldn't sing her way out of a paperbag.
[ April 24, 2005, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: msparks ]
Same goes with bands. If you go out and listen to live music much you can tell who knows how to operate the board and who doesn't.
True singers/muscians will sound good without any mixing. Think of stuff like opera where there are no microphones, only the voice.
Most of todays singers will never be able to release an unplugged album becuase they suck to bad.
Look at the difference between ashley and jessica. Jessica Simpson can hold a tune without any backup. Ashley couldn't sing her way out of a paperbag.
[ April 24, 2005, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: msparks ]
There are 2 things that are significant.
One is that the groups you highlighted usually record analogue (using tape) instead of a digital workstation, and it makes a big difference sonically. If you have a record and a CD of the same album you can compare for yourself.
The second thing is the propensity of mastering engineers to brickwall limit all the dynamics out of the music so it sounds persistantly 'loud' in the car and on headphones so the music is always over the environmental noise of the road or outdoors.
This type of mastering kills a lot of enjoyability of music making it aggressive sounding.
This abusive mastering technique started about 10 years ago and had gotten much worse as time went on, till all the sounds and the feel of the music feel splattered like a bug on the windsheild.
Remember when you would buy an album, then go see the band live and the band was better?
Thats because the band could perform together and catch a vibe.
Modern production rarely sees the whole band in the studio at one time, as parts are recorded in layers into digital workstations then each instrument are mirco edited to be in time on a grid perfectly... or is it.
In time and intune does not sound and feel perfect, it feels clinical.
Can you imagine if they microedited James Brown to be perfectly in time... would the funk be enhanced? Certainly not.
Same goes for every other style of music.
They are all enhanced - either live or recorded.
[Unless you hear a singer with no microphone]
Filters and digital trickery are universally used for 'talking head' news reporters and anchormen.
[Unless you hear a singer with no microphone]
Filters and digital trickery are universally used for 'talking head' news reporters and anchormen.
I watched her on SNL and said the exact same to my wife - how come she is singing a half note lower than the band? It was very, very, very bad.
As others have mentioned, pitch shifting, editing and echo can manufacture Kelly into a singer that can sell CD's. She is not alone in needing an electronic processing boost. That's how Britney and Ashlee and a whole string of mediocre vocal talents do it.
Lest we mention the abusive beginning of this practice... the spice girls.
Kelly can actually sing, so her being out of key is more of a monitoring problem... she probably couldn't hear herself.
I can't figure out why Shania has to stoop to such trickery... her first album and tour, she sang great without the use of autotune (I can spot it a mile away), then her last album had it all over it.
BTW, you can have the best equipment in the world but if someone doesn't have any emotion in their performance, there isn't a anything that can make it soulful.... yet!
Kelly can actually sing, so her being out of key is more of a monitoring problem... she probably couldn't hear herself.
I can't figure out why Shania has to stoop to such trickery... her first album and tour, she sang great without the use of autotune (I can spot it a mile away), then her last album had it all over it.
BTW, you can have the best equipment in the world but if someone doesn't have any emotion in their performance, there isn't a anything that can make it soulful.... yet!
MolaKule
Staff member
Mike has a good point. Too much hype and marketing and little to no voice training. Does she look good? Who cares about her voice, we can "doctor" her up or give the guy a spike.
Voice training is needed by many so-called artists. Too many times, the artist attacks the song by too much volume and not enough resonance and timbre, pretending that he or she has some emotion.
The only female country music artist that has both and can sing well is Martina McBride, IMHO.
I hear too many artists breathing into a close-mike setup when he or she should be feeling the song and letting the board man do his job.
And that telephone sound on records passing through that stupid bandpass filter? Who needs it?
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