Japan taking over the motorcycle industry

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
I remember well riding my '65 BSA Lightning on a nice long stretch of highway one afternoon in 1966.
I had my chin on the gas-cap and the throttle wrung out.....

The next thing a heard was a ringing in my ear and the smell of Castrol as my buddy, Neil, went by me on his new X6 Hustler.

I saw the future at that moment .


You've got my attention...what was an X6 Hustler?

 

[Shrubitup]

Shouldn't this have been posted sometime around my birth year.... round about 1971?

 

[Koop]

Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
I remember well riding my '65 BSA Lightning on a nice long stretch of highway one afternoon in 1966.
I had my chin on the gas-cap and the throttle wrung out.....

The next thing a heard was a ringing in my ear and the smell of Castrol as my buddy, Neil, went by me on his new X6 Hustler.

I saw the future at that moment .


You've got my attention...what was an X6 Hustler?

It was a two stroke Suzuki 250 cc road bike. Suzuki stole a lot of two stroke technology from the eastern Europenas and produced some rockets in the 60s.

 

[Jrp267]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy



We also have the Polaris brand in the USA, Indian and Victory but despite the love affair the press has had with them, they are still a very small segment of the market, tops 5%.
Indian seems to be onto something but Victory is still having an identification crisis. It seems they may be moving more towards the sport segment. This is fact, both brands have been told by Polaris board of directors to get their act together and start showing profits or else.

By heavy weights, we are talking 1700 cc class, not 1300 or 1400.

Back to Harley, no matter the talk, in the USA, its still king of the heavy weights, in fact, in sales it sells over 50% of ALL motorcycles in the USA over 601cc's then ALL other makers combined. Other companies have been struggling to compete and be profitable in the HEAVY weight segment.

So ends today ... ummm ... whatever but anyone can verify what I typed. I am in NO way taking any sides, I like ALL bikes but there seems to be so much [censored] out there, thought I would type my thoughts... ) I do not think Japan rules the market, not in the USA. They build some great bikes and wow, at great prices too, but in that segment there is also some respectable competition from Germany and Italy and also very good bikes.
The good news is, in the USA, we can buy whatever bike that floats our boat, their all good, its about the ride, pride of ownership, not one brand over the other.



Don't know where you are getting your info, but victory was profitable year 1. And has been ever since. Indian was profitable year 2 and has been since. Polaris knows how to make money on a smaller scale of production. Their motorcycle division had a 154% growth 3rd quarter 2015 over 3rd quarter 2014. And record first quarter as well. Both brands are doing extremely well.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Jrp267
Originally Posted By: alarmguy



We also have the Polaris brand in the USA, Indian and Victory but despite the love affair the press has had with them, they are still a very small segment of the market, tops 5%.
Indian seems to be onto something but Victory is still having an identification crisis. It seems they may be moving more towards the sport segment. This is fact, both brands have been told by Polaris board of directors to get their act together and start showing profits or else.



Don't know where you are getting your info, but victory was profitable year 1. And has been ever since. Indian was profitable year 2 and has been since. Polaris knows how to make money on a smaller scale of production. Their motorcycle division had a 154% growth 3rd quarter 2015 over 3rd quarter 2014. And record first quarter as well. Both brands are doing extremely well.


You are wrong, as I typed above, anyone can verify, GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND.
Victory has struggled for FIFTEEN YEARS, Polaris brass was threatening to pull the plug on the entire motorcycle line if they didnt get their act together. Fifteen years and they barely got 2% of the motorcycle market in the USA, maybe, maybe 3%.
The Victory and Indian Motorcycles are to the Polaris Brand a minor thing, Victory was such a failure they were about to get out of motorcycles just a few years back when the Indian name came up for sale. It was a good move on their part and MAYBE they will get it right this time. Keep in mind Polaris is a HUGE corporation and motorcycles make up less then TEN PERCENT of their products. Now with Indian maybe that will grow.

As far as your post SALE GROWTH, well, ummm, yes of course, massive motorcycle sales growth, do you know why? Because Polaris came out with a NEW BRAND IN 2013. So of course sales growth is huge, they started at 0 and every time they sell another it goes to 1, then 2 then 3.
So its easy when you didnt sell a product for sales to go when you do!

Im just trying to put into perspective this whole Polaris thing. Bottom line is, for every 1000 Harleys sold in the USA Polaris two motorcycle brands, Indian and Victory combines sell maybe 40.

Another fact, Polaris sales in motorcycles = less then 10% of Polaris Industries Products of Snowmobiles and ATVs etc.
Another fact, unlike Harley Davidson, the company that makes nothing but motorcycles and does not have the war chest that Polaris does. Polaris does not break down sales by country, meaning, their motorcycle sales growth? Who knows where is comes from, did you know, they just increased their dealerships 100% in India? See how numbers can be skewed, 100% increase in dealers in India, from 6 to 12.
Bottom line, after 15 years, it looks like, with the new Indian Brand name, that they are on a move and MAYBE, MAYBE start selling COMBINED sales of their Victory Models and Indian Brand Models in the USA to as many as 50 for every 1000 Harleys.

Before anyone misreads my post, read my original post, I like all bikes, whatever floats your boat, just trying to keep a level playing field for the little company that is still a great American success story, Harley Davidson. Always battling MEGA, MEGA, MEGA size corporations. Im rooting for them and honestly, this is my first Harley. I am impressed.
I will agree competition is good, I will always give my money to the company that treats me right and provides me with a world class product.

 

[alarmguy]

Pretty much, Indian saved the life of Polaris staying in the motorcycle game and thats ok, I just hate to see unbalanced and out of proportion coverage on a company that is still a tiny fraction in sales of HD, yet the parent company itself is HUGE compared to HD. Polaris has bottomless pockets as it proved by keeping Victory alive all these years.

No matter the company, ill never cheer for a small American speciality company like HD to be overrun by a huge American owned international conglomerant, as long as the small company provides a product to fit my wants and needs. Dont misunderstand me, my money comes first, unlike it may sound i am in no way defending Harley, just get tired of seeing overblown hype from Polaris Industries.

Direct quote at the time Polaris bought Indian name...
. NUMBERS. Victory generates only 4 percent of total Polaris revenues. “If their motorcycle division were a separate company, they (sic) would have been out of business years ago," Hanlon said: “Including its four year development timeframe, they have 17 years invested in [motorcycles] and it has been profitable one year and is 4 percent of sales. … From a numbers perspective, they are disappointing and below expectations.”
click here for source

 

[Panzerman]

90% of people own a Harley because it's a Harley and they crave the image. Being here in Daytona Beach, I can tell you the bikers are starting to shift. I am seeing alot more Japanese Sport Bikes. I know when I bought a big motorcycle, I didn't want a Harley, because everybody has one here. I ended up buying a Triumph. Believe it or not, I get alot of nasty looks on main Street. But, I am also seeing more and more Victories now that they are going more of a retro rat bike look. I don't think the futuristic look sold well, even though they were probably comfortable. Most people that buy bikes( not all) are posers.

 

[BigCahuna]

Another informed opinion from a guy that doesn't own a Harley, never has, but knows why everyone buys one.Bought a triumph, rides thru Harley land, and can't understand why nobody will talk to him.,,,

 

[alarmguy]

Ill have to agree, many people who buy cruisers dont cruise very much and why sport bikes are selling fast but lets not forget, most sport bikes cost 25 to 50% less then some HD cruisers and with economy now getting close to that of Greece I think we will see much more of that, my kids or grand kids will never even be able to dream about affording a bike like a Harley Or Indian.

You are wrong on one point. Crave the image means you are prejudice against HD for some reason, I guess because everyone has one, as you say. I like all bikes, then in your statement you say how sport bikes are the big thing now, well, I guess they crave the image too? Sorry, doesnt hold water on the image thing. Harley is an awesome LITTLE specialty company that has taken on international corporations TEN times their size and HD still beats them HD still selling 50% of all motorcycles sold in the USA over 600cc..

I have a cruiser because I do cruise, 50% (maybe more like 70%) of my riding is 75 to 85 MPH interstate.
My first Harley, the Rushmore Road King is rock solid stable, performance awesome, no cruiser from Japan can beat it and why over the last couple years Japan has have been drastically cutting back their line up in the USA. Heck, Im not so sure they sell any 1700 cc cruisers anymore, or almost none.

Based on your post, for some reason you feel like your not part of the crowd with your Triumph. All I know here in SC I would not feel that way.
BTW - IF I ever own another cruiser, it will be (so far) a Harley OR a TRIUMPH THUNDERBIRD LT. I love the idea of a parallel twin. Love the reviews on it too. Currently no dealers within an hours ride from my home and why I discounted it. Im glad I did for now, enjoying my Road King.

 

[jeffmc]

ag, I have a 2008 Yamaha Royal Star Touring Deluxe that I will put up against your Road King for solid crusing.

The V4 on it cant be beat.

 

[Panzerman]

I have ridden with many Harley's and I have rode them. From the 80s to the 2000s. I wouldn't want one. My very good friend loves to ride and his wife wouldn't ride with him unless he bought a Harley. He bought one, he absolutely hates it. He kept the Honda, he point blank said, the Harley is a piece of..of course this is coming from a guy that actually knows what he is looking at and what makes things tick. But he wants his wife to ride with him, wear her $400 Harley jacket and play pretend. That is the image I talk about Craving. Posers. Most Harley riders at bike week couldn't even change their own oil. I would consider myself more a biker than most. I also think the sport bikes are popular for the performance. They are literally rockets. As far as riding my Triumph in Harley country, I change my own oil, my own brake pads and I doubt the Triumph will ever see a dealership unless I have a catastrophic failure. That's more than I can say for the " average" Harley rider.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Papa Bear
I remember well riding my '65 BSA Lightning on a nice long stretch of highway one afternoon in 1966.
I had my chin on the gas-cap and the throttle wrung out.....

The next thing a heard was a ringing in my ear and the smell of Castrol as my buddy, Neil, went by me on his new X6 Hustler.

I saw the future at that moment .
The X6 hustler was a most incredible motorcycle.

 

[CT8]

I have owned many Japanese motorcycles over the years but I love the look of a Harley though.

 

[CT8]

Harleys aren't motorcycles they are Harleys. I have never owned a Harley but I like the way they look.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Posers. Most Harley riders at bike week couldn't even change their own oil. I would consider myself more a biker than most. I also think the sport bikes are popular for the performance. They are literally rockets. As far as riding my Triumph in Harley country, I change my own oil, my own brake pads and I doubt the Triumph will ever see a dealership unless I have a catastrophic failure. That's more than I can say for the " average" Harley rider.


Laughable statement you made. You certainly hate riders of other bikes that you do not own.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Harleys aren't motorcycles they are Harleys. I have never owned a Harley but I like the way they look.


Hey, yes, I never owned a Harley until the summer of 2014 when we bought our Road King while we were on vacation! I never thought I would own one ... but read on *L*

My metric bikes were great and I love looking at bikes, reading about them etc. ALL KINDS of bikes.
We always rode to Harley and Metric dealers just to look around when nothing to do. Of course reading about the new Rushmore bikes got me more interested and I knew when my daughter graduated college in 2016 I would most like check out the Road King.
Loved going into the dealers and admiring the fit, finish, quality of materials right down to the brake line hoses calipers, cables etc.

Anyway, while two states away on Vacation in TN, riding our Vstar 1300 tourer, on the last day we traded it in at Smoky Mountain Harley, Pigeon Forge TN and rode home on the new 14 Road King, talk about an adventure! POURING rain outside, got soaked going to the dealer on the vstar, as they prepped the new Road King I was buying a Rain Suit at the dealer!

Left the dealer riding the new Road King, NEVER rode the bike before, never rode a Harley before, mountain roads, pouring rain, luggage and my wife on the back, man it was scary, for a while and got to admit, I would most likely do it all over again, ahh... memories.

Now 8,500 miles later, bike still runs awesome, hasnt needed a repair yet, I will bring it in before the warranty expires, so far, after almost 2 years only thing I will want done is the front spark plug wire replaced, it was rubbing under the gas tank and got a little chaffed.

 

[gman2304]

'My very good friend loves to ride and his wife wouldn't ride with him unless he bought a Harley. He bought one'


^ Ain't love grand? ^

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Another informed opinion from a guy that doesn't own a Harley, never has, but knows why everyone buys one.Bought a triumph, rides thru Harley land, and can't understand why nobody will talk to him.,,,


Harley land? Just goes to show what egos a lot of Harley riders have...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I have ridden with many Harley's and I have rode them. From the 80s to the 2000s. I wouldn't want one. My very good friend loves to ride and his wife wouldn't ride with him unless he bought a Harley. He bought one, he absolutely hates it. He kept the Honda, he point blank said, the Harley is a piece of..of course this is coming from a guy that actually knows what he is looking at and what makes things tick. But he wants his wife to ride with him, wear her $400 Harley jacket and play pretend. That is the image I talk about Craving. Posers. Most Harley riders at bike week couldn't even change their own oil. I would consider myself more a biker than most. I also think the sport bikes are popular for the performance. They are literally rockets. As far as riding my Triumph in Harley country, I change my own oil, my own brake pads and I doubt the Triumph will ever see a dealership unless I have a catastrophic failure. That's more than I can say for the " average" Harley rider.


What do you expect from a motorcycle made by a clothing company?

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: gman2304
'My very good friend loves to ride and his wife wouldn't ride with him unless he bought a Harley. He bought one'


^ Ain't love grand? ^




Ugh, even the women are brainwashed these days...