2013 Sportster 1200 5000 miles Red Line MC 20w-50

[shanneba]

Here is my latest UOA on my 2013 Sportster - 5000 miles on the oil/filter, 15000 total miles on the engine.

Copper is finally coming down! Lead and tin are down.

I also had Blackstone do a particle count. This UOA was with the Harley Sportster Oil filter, 63805-80A. (20 micron standard filter)
The next UOA I will also get a particle count, that will be with the Mobil 1 M1MC-131 filter rated at 99.9% efficiency at 10 microns.

At about 1000 miles on this run I checked my plugs. The Front plug was gapped at 0.045 and the rear was at 0.035. I cleaned off a little corrosion from the top of the plugs and set the gap to 0.040.

The bike ran much smoother with the old plugs gapped at the proper 0.040" and it has improved even more with the new NGK DCPR7EIX Iridium IX plugs.

 

[shanneba]

The oils used were:

1022 miles was the HD360 20w-50 factory fill.
4080 miles was HD SYN3 20w-50.
All the others are Red line MC 20w-50.

All UOAs have been with the HD filters -

 

[Ausfahrt]

Nice.

Summer is just around the corner, ride that Sporty like you stole it and don't look back!

 

[DrDave]

Just out of curiosity why did you change the filter? It appears to be just starting to filter at just 5k miles.

Dave

 

[shanneba]

The Mobil 1 filter has a better rating at 99% at 10 microns. (I called the tech hotline to get that info) I also considered using the Harley twin cam 5 micron filter, it is assumed to be 50% at 5 microns (from their rating being considered "nominal") since they will not provide info on the efficiency.

I want to compare the particle counts at 5000 miles to see if it shows any better filtration.

 

[DrDave]

That sounds reasonable. It is my experience with the multiple vehicles I have been monitoring that the particle counts are very high for the first 7500-10k miles. They really become filters after about 15k miles. I'm at 40k+ miles on two of my cars with the same filter. The particle count numbers are quite impressive. I'd share if I knew how.

Dave

 

[CCI]

"They really become filters after about 15k miles. "

Question -- the older HDs use drop-in pleated paper filters rather than spin-on, one layer, cheap, made in Taiwan.

Do you think these would work better over extended intervals, or should they be changed every time?

 

[DrDave]

My objective data shows a clear pattern of increased efficiency over time in use. I have two motors that are 40k+ miles on their filters. The UOA particle counts show amazingly good numbers. I would not hesitate to go several oil change intervals keeping the same filter in place. This may be a unique opinion. However, I have the data to support my opinion. There has been no catastrophic events or international incidents as some would have you believe.

I you make three runs with the same filter and do particle count at each change a pattern should become evident. Most motorcycle engines get their oil changed more frequently than the automotive counterpart. You will likely need to have the filter in service for more miles to identify the trend of increased efficiency. I think it's worth the wait.

I'll post some numbers tonight.

Dave

 

[DrDave]

I went back to my UOA reports with particle count. These are for a Toyota Tacoma with the 2.4L.

>4u
11,383 miles 102
7507 miles 435
7453 miles 4500
6966 miles 113,507

>6u
11,383 miles 55
7507 miles 237
7453 miles 2451
6966 miles 13,710

These are cumulative miles without changing the filter. It appears that the filter really starts to look good at about 15k miles. The top numbers are the most recent particle count. I wish I knew how to post the actual report.

Dave

 

[Shannow]

DrDave,
that's really interesting and useful infomation, thankyou for doing the experiment and the testing.

How long are you going to run it ?

Until you see evidence of filter going into bypass ?

 

[DrDave]

Thank you:

On the report I just got a couple of days ago the numbers actually started coming back up. The >4u number jumped to 435 particles. That is the level I saw at the 20k mile point. I'm thinking that I am running in the partial bypass mode. It's time to change the filter. The filter is at the 41k mile point. I'm going to send the filter off for analysis. I'll share those when they come back.

Dave

 

[Shannow]

DrDave,
again, good information.

Former member Sinky Petersen (RIP) did a whole heap of VOAs of new oil and found extreme particulate contamination (20,000+ 5um) in brand new jugs of oil...(as an aside, we found the same in hydraulic oils and filter it into our systems).

Your filter tests would suggest that for the cleanest oil, you should change the oil with the old filter in place, run a couple weeks then change the filter...that way you take the new particulate out early.

(plus get some of the already activated AW additives in the oil early).

 

[Silk]

I've often wondered if oil filters, like air filters, need to be loaded before gaining efficiency. I'm not committed to my theory and fluctuate on filter changes. With the Airhead which holds 2.5 litres, I'm getting 5 litre containers and using one filter for that jug....because I'll probably change brand next time anyway, and it's such a pain to change the filter....let alone the $2,000 O ring problem.

 

[DrDave]

Hi again, Your are pretty close to my technique. When I change oil with no filter change I drain the oil and put in about a quart of fresh oil. This technique is restricted to motorcycle and small capacity motors. I then idle the motor for about a minute and then drain the oil again. This flushes out the oil galley's and the filter. I then refill the crankcase and off I go. I do the same thing for an oil change with filter change. I just change the filter after I have flushed the system.

As for the VOA particle count I have done that as well. The >4u of the oil was 35,500 particles. As an independent data point Aeroshell W65 aviation oil was 243 particles >4u. This represents exceptional filtering of the aviation product.

Dave

 

[DrDave]

I did six consecutive UOA's with particle count while maintaining the same filter. There were five oil changes during the life of the filter. The particle count dropped by a factor of 25 initially and then by a factor of 10. After 22k miles the filter really started doing it's job. At 7500 miles it was merely a screen.

Dave

 

[CharlieBauer]

DrDave, thanks for performing these fascinating tests and sharing the information.

I recall reading a thread here about the efficiency over time of the Pure One filter and a Purolator engineer stated the efficiency drops from the initial 99.9% immediately and then rises during the FCI. I think they said it will approach 99.9% again right at the point it gets too loaded.

I also think he said the reason for an initial drop in efficiency is to do with the media pores being expanded by the initial use.

Makes me think that different media will behave differently during a FCI.

 

[DrDave]

I think it would be fun to be able to post the UOA report, unfortunately I have no idea how to do it. I'm not going back to college to learn.

DN

 

[Jetronic]

what's the filter size on such a tacoma?

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: DrDave
I think it would be fun to be able to post the UOA report, unfortunately I have no idea how to do it. I'm not going back to college to learn.

DN


Send me a .PDF and I will post it for you.

 

[DrDave]

It is the Amsoil Ea15k51. It is a small filter. I don't have any exact dimensions or media area.

Dave