Total Quartz Ineo MC3 5W30

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
304
Location
Philadelphia, PA
First UOA done on my V. This is the longest OCI. There were at least six other oil changes including this one (I can dig through receipts to get exact count if important). All units are km (even if it says miles). Also, I sent the sample to two other labs and will post those results once received.

wl839k.jpg


Several concerns:
1. I need oil for summer track days plus normal use. Should I continue this one or change to another one? I was looking at RL 5W30. Should I change after every track event?
2. My mechanic wants to swap the transmission and rear diff fluids at the end of the season. Thoughts?
3. How would I be able to tell if there was any contamination in grabbing the oil samples? I had the mechanic take about 700 mL, then I split that up into 3 x 3oz for sending to three separate labs.
4. I also need to clean the current container for the next sample. How do I do that without adding even more potential contaminants? I was looking at getting a vacuum pump and drawing through the dipstick holder. Thoughts?
5. My mechanic recommends just switching oil every 5k km (3k miles) regardless of UOA. His argument is the cost of any potential contamination is higher than any expected gains from longer OCIs.
6. I've started using Redline SI-1 every fuel up (about 2oz / 10 gal fuel) after two shock doses about 3k km apart before the last oil change. Is there any way to verify it's doing anything? My understanding of everything we do here is that because we have no ability to do controlled samples it's all just a grand delusion.
 
Forgot to mention: for concern #1 above my mechanic recommends Total 10W60 but I'm worried it's too viscous at operating temperature.

Also, the order of oils I've used in this car is: Mobil1 5W30, Dexos1 synth-blend (dealer-provided) 5W30, Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W30, Total Quartz Ineo MC3 5W30
 
Your track days how many hours or laps are you going.
That engine is amazing and I would rather change the oil than risk it.
If you go more than a few laps seriously hard change the oil no track days listen to Black stone don't exceed the GM OCI with no track days.
I have no experience with an engine like that.

10w60 is not necessary.
What does it say in the manual?
In the manual does it only say 5w30?
If Redline has a Dexos1 Cert oil why not, Group V is better for heat breakdown.
If you dont care about warranty try Mobil1 0w40 its used in Super Cars.
Changing transmission and rear diff fluids at the end of the season sounds like a good idea.
 
For track, I was thinking of doing 5-6 sessions at 7 hrs a pop about once a month or so from may to oct plus regular driving.

Manual says dexos1 5w30 for normal, 0w30 if really cold. Redline doesn't have dexos1 cert but I've read (though do not have the ability or knowledge to verify the claims) that it's good in high heat applications like track days. There isn't an oil that can serve double duty on one oil change is there?
 
Originally Posted By: Emperors6
For track, I was thinking of doing 5-6 sessions at 7 hrs a pop about once a month or so from may to oct plus regular driving.

Manual says dexos1 5w30 for normal, 0w30 if really cold. Redline doesn't have dexos1 cert but I've read (though do not have the ability or knowledge to verify the claims) that it's good in high heat applications like track days. There isn't an oil that can serve double duty on one oil change is there?

7 hours of constant high load, I would change the oil every time to be safe and change the Diff and Trans every 2 or 3 sessions.
Im not a Mechanic though.
Heat kills fluids and that would a lot of heat over and over and over.
 
Yah, I'll probably do that. I just need to find the cheapest oil that can do its duty since it won't be in there for long.
 
Hi Emperor6 and thanks for the PM.

Firstly this is not a dexos 1 approved oil but rather a heavier low SAPS dexos 2 oil intended for light duty diesels.

I would start using the lighter dexos 1 oil such as the OEM M1 5W-30 or PP 5W-30 as these will be more suitable for street use especially during the winter months assuming you're driving it now.
IIRC your car had both oil temp' and oil pressure gauges which makes optimizing your oil viscosity easy. Even on a hot summer track day I doubt you'll get the spec 5W-30 too hot necessitating running something heavier. You may be at the track for 7 hours but on track sessions don't usually exceed 20 minutes so a good amount of track time you're waiting for the oil to come up to temperature. As long as your OP doesn't drop below 50 psi at high rev's when the oil's fully hot I wouldn't run anything heavier.
 
I see. What's the advantage of using a lighter oil? Fuel efficiency? If that's all there is, then I would prefer a heavier one if it sticks to the surfaces better. I care most about the life of the engine over fuel costs.
 
There is no lubrication advantage in running an
oil heavier than specified, just disadvantages on start-up/warm-up.
Your engine has been torture tested using M1 5W-30 and has electronic safety management systems in place to deal with exceptionally high oil temp's based on that oil should it happen, very unlikely on a track day here in Canada.

So drive your V as fast as your skill allows during your track days this year in the knowledge that the oil GM spec's is up to the task. All you need do is make sure the oil is at the maximum level mark.
Also take the time to become familiar with the oil temp and oil pressure readings on your gauges. Feel free to PM me what you observe.
 
Thanks. The mechanic I usually go to wanted to go to 20W50 since during large g's the oil system might have pick up problems and a thicker oil will form a thicker film to protect the various surfaces when that happens. He works on many Corvettes and some V's so I have no reason to doubt his advice for now. I'm going to do some more reading since there's still a few months until I have to actually make a decision.

As for reading the sensors I have an OBD2 reader and I was planning to look at the readings exported via the various PIDs and looking at what typical oil pressure and engine coolant readings are while driving. I'm not sure if it uses the oil or coolant as the engine temperature. Once the setup is working, I'll be able to collect all the relevant sensors for whenever I go driving and maybe in the long run build a large enough dataset to infer some things (especially if can control variability for routes, temperature, etc).
 
I couldn't disagree more with your mechanic's suggestion to run a 20W-50 as some sort of protection in the event an oil pick-up problem.
That antiquated grade has no business in your tight modern engine. Your oil pump will be deep in relief reducing oil flow and raising oil temp's. A bad idea that I know a Corvette race engineer would quickly dismiss.

It is prudent to be aware of the possibility of an oil pick-up issue with your wet sumped engine which is why I suggested you keep your oil level at the maximum level at the track. If you have an oil pressure gauge, something I always recommend for any car that's tracked, then you'll know if it's an issue and under what conditions. And you need a gauge to read in real time, data logging after the fact is too late.
I know with some wet sumped older Corvette's overfilling the sump with up to a full quart is recommended especially when running slicks at the track.
Having said that, with your oil level on max' I would be surprised if your CTS-V on street tires would not be able to maintain solid oil pressure while cornering at the limit in both left and right high speed corners.
 
Emperors6,
a couple of points...
* if your oil pump is barely relieving, or "heavily" into relief, there's no difference in oil heating...the heat created via the oil pump is proportional to flow and pressure, regardless of how much is relieved.
* At such point, the galleries are full anyway, and the bearings are drawing off that which they need to replace the side leakage.
* The oil itself is generating most of it's own heat through being sheared in bearing surfaces (like bearings and piston skirts)
* I can get the oil temp in my supercharged 3.8 to 135C simply by holding it in "2" at 65MPH for less than 10 minutes. Type K thermocouple down the dipstick, which indicates that the big ends are carrying serious heat.
* Oil pressure and temperature (bulk) tell you nothing about what's happening at the big end, which operates significantly higher than any of the temperatures that are typically (well more like can be) measured.
* as for starting, if it's a 5W, it meets the cold cranking and MRV specs for a 5W, and regardless of KV100 or HTHS will perform equally adequately at -35C...for more regular temperatures, you'll see zero difference between a Dexos 1, or 2, or even an ACAE A3/B4 in start up performance or wear.

I'm not sure I like your mechanic's suggestions for 10W60, or 20W50. You could go an A3/B4 5W30, or a little higher to a 0W40/5W40 if you want (repeat the UOA process to verify), but unless he's pulled down a lot of these engines and can demonstrate a difference, I wouldn't leap to 50 or 60, nor being in Canada, put in anything with a 20W at the front.
 
In line with the last two posts, take a look at endurance racing. To the best of my knowledge, these engines use something like M1 0w-40 in these applications. If they don't need a 20w-50 or 10w-0 at Le Mans, you probably don't either. As far as I recall, on the Vette side of things, they have, in recent years, recommended the 5w-30 ILSAC, as Caterham notes, with the allowance for a 0w-40 for racing.
 
I see. I need to do more research and collect more data on the track. Would starting with Redline 0W40 and keeping an eye on temperature and oil pressure (vs RPM) be a start?

I also have other fluid recommendations I want to check. Should I use this thread?
 
You probably could use this thread. That's up to you. There's nothing wrong with Red Line 0w-40, but it might have a little higher HTHS than what you'd be wanting. One always has to be a bit cautious when going out of spec under warranty. Most Red Line products have elevated HTHS within grade, so check their specifications before you just choose based upon SAE viscosity.
 
Keep with the indicated viscosity and Dexos spec.
So no 10W-60 or racing oils.

Now you have to track not only your km but also your track time. Maybe the oil is completely shot up after 20 hours at the track but can do 25.000km on the road no problem (random but indicative numbers)
But good GM should have an oil life monitor on your car. Make sure it is on the "variable" setting which tracks temperatures, rpm, km, start-ups etc. to determine when you have to change the oil. Caution because usually there is also a "dump" setting that acts only as a reminder after a set number of kms.
 
Thanks for the recommendations. I'll go with RedLine 5W30. I'll also switch out the ATF and rear diff to RedLine. D6 ATF and 75W90 for the diff works?

Btw, here's a report from another lab on the same sample (WIX is the lab -- I think they use Polaris?):
2qx0uj7.png

Their comments:
"All wear levels appear within acceptable limits for first
sample. Silicon level (dirt/sealant material) satisfactory.
Water content acceptable. Viscosity within specified
operating range.
Action: As oil and filter(s) already changed, resample
at next recommended interval to monitor and establish
wear trend. "

Apparently they have trouble reading my writing since they got the time on oil wrong, and my contact info (not shown here). I think next time I'll just get Blackstone. Still waiting for one more lab.
 
Sorry forgot to mention my OLM. It does appear to have a non-linear response to the mileage, since I have a trip I take regularly that causes a larger drop in the oil life left during the winter.

Once I have my logging setup, I'll be able to track the engine time automatically. I'm also going to see if I can get it to automatically log fuel ups since it should be able to monitor the fuel level gauge, the only question is how accurate it is compared to the fuel pump at the station.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top