Particulate Filters and Ash

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If most of the new diesels released in 2016 require low ash rated motor oil and if most of them have particulate filters and require AdBlu, etc.....

What the heck is the difference?

One vehicle demands 0.7 ash or lower....and other is fine on Rotella 5w40.....1.0.

Are the differences enough that it will cause system failure...using Rotella?
 
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
If most of the new diesels released in 2016 require low ash rated motor oil and if most of them have particulate filters and require AdBlu, etc.....

What the heck is the difference?

One vehicle demands 0.7 ash or lower....and other is fine on Rotella 5w40.....1.0.

Are the differences enough that it will cause system failure...using Rotella?

Difference is in EGR, DPF itself and regeneration process. BMW and Mercedes are usually OK with higher ash levels, and require Mid-SAPS oils. VW is very strict on ash level. This is not 2016 models, low ash oils are present in diesels last 10 years. Most commercial engines require Mid-SAPS oils.
SO what happens if you use Rotella T6 in engine that requires lower ash content? Nothing immediately, but DPF will get clogged faster, meaning regeneration will occur more often and will not be able to clean DPF as well as before. On top of that, your mpg will get worse bcs of more often regeneration and bcs DPF is getting clogged.
For example, my BMW requires BMW LL-04 spec which is Mid-SAPS specification. I use M1 5W30 ESP which has lowest SAPS level of any C3 oil available on the US market. Actually, I saw increase in MPG compare to OEM oil, probably because regeneration is not as often as before.
 
Be sure to stick to the manufacturer specs-because if the DPF fails (clogs) prematurely-the first thing tested is going to be engine oil. I would also keep receipts for any oil you put in, as well. This is why my Ram is the newest diesel I'll ever own-unless it's emission system deleted.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Actually, I saw increase in MPG compare to OEM oil, probably because regeneration is not as often as before.


No wonder, it`s also ACEA C2
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: DS9
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Actually, I saw increase in MPG compare to OEM oil, probably because regeneration is not as often as before.


No wonder, it`s also ACEA C2

Nope, Mobil1 5W30 is ACEA C3.
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Nope, dual rated, acea C2,C3.

Meets the fuel saving requirements of C2.

Yeah that is true, but it has HTHS above 3.5cp, so would not call it energy saver.
It is still C3 oil, and heavy 5W30 oil.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Nope, dual rated, acea C2,C3.

Meets the fuel saving requirements of C2.

Yeah that is true, but it has HTHS above 3.5cp...


Then it doesn't "...meet or exceed the requirements of..." ACEA C2. HTHS of 2.9cP maximum is a fundamental requirement of ACEA C2. Yet another example of playing fast and loose with specification 'claims'. And they can't spell "phosphorus". I'm out.
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Nope, dual rated, acea C2,C3.

Meets the fuel saving requirements of C2.

Yeah that is true, but it has HTHS above 3.5cp...


Then it doesn't "...meet or exceed the requirements of..." ACEA C2. HTHS of 2.9cP maximum is a fundamental requirement of ACEA C2. Yet another example of playing fast and loose with specification 'claims'. And they can't spell "phosphorus". I'm out.


C2 HTHS requirment is 2.9 minimum, no maximum.
 
Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Nope, dual rated, acea C2,C3.

Meets the fuel saving requirements of C2.

Yeah that is true, but it has HTHS above 3.5cp...


Then it doesn't "...meet or exceed the requirements of..." ACEA C2. HTHS of 2.9cP maximum is a fundamental requirement of ACEA C2. Yet another example of playing fast and loose with specification 'claims'. And they can't spell "phosphorus". I'm out.

Nope, C2-10: Equal or greater then 2.9cp.
Lubrizol ACEA C2-10
 
Sorry, my bad - been a long day!

Forget I spoke.
blush.gif


Although I stand by the phosphorus thing... blaggards!!!
 
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Originally Posted By: Olas
Remove the filter and use whatever oil you like
Why? Like to breathe clean air much?
 
Pulling this one back up, as I just learned that Dodge Ram has now relaxed their low SAPS requirement. They are now allowing mid SAPS, Rosella T6 5w40. Interesting change on their part, but I suspect there was a lot of EcoDiesels purchased for commercial use and the companies were not interested in stocking another oil....and an oil that is $10 a quart.
 
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Pulling this one back up, as I just learned that Dodge Ram has now relaxed their low SAPS requirement. They are now allowing mid SAPS, Rosella T6 5w40. Interesting change on their part, but I suspect there was a lot of EcoDiesels purchased for commercial use and the companies were not interested in stocking another oil....and an oil that is $10 a quart.

Since when Rotella T6 is Mid-SAPS? It is Mid-SAPS for its applications (trucks) but not for engines made for personal vehicles. T6 has SA level of 1, and Valvoline that I use in BMW (Mid-SAPS) has SA level of 0.76.
FC is trying to resolve problem here with thicker oil.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Pulling this one back up, as I just learned that Dodge Ram has now relaxed their low SAPS requirement. They are now allowing mid SAPS, Rosella T6 5w40. Interesting change on their part, but I suspect there was a lot of EcoDiesels purchased for commercial use and the companies were not interested in stocking another oil....and an oil that is $10 a quart.

Since when Rotella T6 is Mid-SAPS? It is Mid-SAPS for its applications (trucks) but not for engines made for personal vehicles. T6 has SA level of 1, and Valvoline that I use in BMW (Mid-SAPS) has SA level of 0.76.
FC is trying to resolve problem here with thicker oil.



It is my understanding that standard SAPS is around 1.2 to 1.3 and with the new Rotella formulation the last couples of years, moved to 1.0. Low SAPS is 0.8 or lower, right?

A SAPS of 1.0 seems to be a Mid-SAPS.

Also.....there is no difference in the EcoDiesel engine and exhaust, whether it is in a commercial or personal application.


......
 
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: BigJohn
Pulling this one back up, as I just learned that Dodge Ram has now relaxed their low SAPS requirement. They are now allowing mid SAPS, Rosella T6 5w40. Interesting change on their part, but I suspect there was a lot of EcoDiesels purchased for commercial use and the companies were not interested in stocking another oil....and an oil that is $10 a quart.

Since when Rotella T6 is Mid-SAPS? It is Mid-SAPS for its applications (trucks) but not for engines made for personal vehicles. T6 has SA level of 1, and Valvoline that I use in BMW (Mid-SAPS) has SA level of 0.76.
FC is trying to resolve problem here with thicker oil.



It is my understanding that standard SAPS is around 1.2 to 1.3 and with the new Rotella formulation the last couples of years, moved to 1.0. Low SAPS is 0.8 or lower, right?

A SAPS of 1.0 seems to be a Mid-SAPS.

Also.....there is no difference in the EcoDiesel engine and exhaust, whether it is in a commercial or personal application.


......

High SAPS is above 1. I know T6 is 1.00, so it is right on border.
As for V6 FIAT engine, it is made primarily for personal vehicles. Of course it could be used in small commercial vehicles, but it is typical car V6 diesel.
I would go with Valvoline 5W40 MST since it has also much better NOACK then T6.
 
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