Oil for Honda CBR 600 F4i: JASO MA or JASO MA2?

[volodymyr]

BusyLittleShop,

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Honda only recommends API ratings which sets minimum for performance
standards for lubricants... there is nothing in those early API SE SG
SH ratings that are motorcycle specific... SE SG SH are now obsolete
and although suitable for some older vehicles are more than 10 years
old they do not provide the same level of performance or protection as
the more up to date SL and SM specifications. so Mr.RC45's Mobil 1
0w30 is SM rated which according to the manual is an API oil that
"meets and exceeds" those old obsolete API standards... is your oil up
to date???


Yes, I went through the list of all API specifications here: http://www.oilspecifications.org/api_eolcs.php before I started writing my first post in this thread.

In fact, most of the motorcycle oils seem to support outdated API specs when they are targeting JASO MA. Some of well-known oils are only mentioning JASO MA as, for example, Yamalube: https://www.yamahapartsandaccessories.com/shop/product/details/15w-30-racing-full-synthetic-with-ester?b=Engine+Oils&d=30|30&dealernumber=

I did not find that many oils with API SN and JASO MA or JASO MA2 and I guess the reason for this is that if oil targets latest API spec it will have a slippery clutch and will fail to pass JASO MA or MA2.

 

[volodymyr]

BusyLittleShop,

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
I don't believe you need a 40 or 50 weight to meet and exceed your
mileage expectations... there's mounting evidence that no one is wearing out their
engines despite running the free flowing 30wt...

The choice is yours but choosing a 30wt over a 40wt or 50wt is smarter because it will:


Thanks for your comments. I can easially obtain the Castrol POWER 1 Racing 4T 10W-30 for more or less the same price as Castrol POWER 1 Racing 4T 10W-40.

Given the fact that I have 1.3 liters of leftovers of Castrol POWER 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 I can simply mix this with 2 liters of Castrol POWER 1 Racing 4T 10W-30 and obtain 10W-33

 

[volodymyr]

I decided to search some owner manuals for recent Honda CBR bikes. Here is manual for 2009 CBR 600 RR: http://owners.honda.com/assets/ownerlink/model/own_man/powersports/motorcycle/2009/09_cbr600rr_a.pdf

The page 101 suggests any oil API SG (except for those marked as energy conserving) or higher SAE 10W-30.

So, the requirements did not change much in 8 years (from 2001 to 2009) and Honda still asks for outdated API classifications.

 

[volodymyr]

Also found a manual for Honda CBR 600 RR 2012 year. It also suggests API SG (except for those marked as energy conserving) or higher SAE 10W-30.

Page 43 from http://hondampe.com.au/docs/owning_a_honda/owners_manuals/motorcycles/32MJC6010_CBR600RR13 OM.pdf

So, it appears that Honda is indeed recommending 10W-30 nowdays, however the API requirements are the same.

 

[FastGame]

Originally Posted By: volodymyr
So, the requirements did not change much in 8 years (from 2001 to 2009) and Honda still asks for outdated API classifications.

They spec that because the anti wear additives ZDDP (Zinc dithiophosphate) are higher and not regulated in the older API classification.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: volodymyr


Thanks for your comments.


You're welcome...

The difference between Castrol POWER 1 Racing 4T 30wt and 40wt is
22cSt on 40ºc start up (advantage 30) and 3cSt at 100ºc operating
temps... that measurement is not 3cSt thinner or thicker... the
measurement is 3cSt in flow... although 3cSt freer flowing 30wt means
more flow which frees up more HP at the rear wheel, 3cSt more flow
doesn't risk increase wear... our modern engines protected by modern
oils don't operate with in a 3cSt range of risk...

Castrol POWER 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 (40ºc 90cSt) (100ºc 13.5 cSt)
Castrol POWER 1 Racing 4T 10W-30 (40ºc 68cSt) (100ºc 10.5 cSt)

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: DrDave

I see you are an aviation guy as well. You fly an airplane with an upside down engine. BTW, I will have 29 cases of W65 lining my garage wall soon. I'm based out of W16. Would love to see your RC45.

We should chat.

Dave


Hiya Dave...
I got the aviation bug when I was a kid... two wheel bug bit in High School... whats up
with all the Aviation oil and does the Collings Foundation Wings of Freedom Tour fly into W16???

 

[volodymyr]

Hello everyone,

Just to have some closure regarding my oil search. Finally I ordered two liters of Castrol POWER 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 and mixed it with leftovers of 1.3 liter of Castrol POWER 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 which I had from previous year.

I did only 120 kms during the 2015 season, so perhaps I should focus instead on a very cheap oil for 2016 given my decline of motorcycle passion.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
that measurement is not 3cSt thinner or thicker... the
measurement is 3cSt in flow...

not that tripe again...

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
that measurement is not 3cSt thinner or thicker... the
measurement is 3cSt in flow...

not that tripe again...


BLS's post you quoted was from over a year ago. Maybe he's learned something on this board, since then?

 

[Shannow]

Guess that I own the facepam then...oops.

 

[Kamele0N]

Originally Posted By: FastGame
Originally Posted By: volodymyr
So, the requirements did not change much in 8 years (from 2001 to 2009) and Honda still asks for outdated API classifications.

They spec that because the anti wear additives ZDDP (Zinc dithiophosphate) are higher and not regulated in the older API classification.


Motocycle oils often have API SG classification...not because of their formulation would be 20years old...but because SG was the last standard with MAX ZDDP in it!

 

[volodymyr]

Kamele0N,

Originally Posted By: Kamele0N

Motocycle oils often have API SG classification...not because of their formulation would be 20years old...but because SG was the last standard with MAX ZDDP in it!


Yet many of the people on this forum say that the recent API certified oils are better than the old ones due to more strict tests and another type of anti-wear additives ...

 

[bulwnkl]

Deleted

 

[SuperSalad]

Just to set this record straight real fast:

JASO MA, JASO MA1, JASO MA2 and JASO MB all have the exact same phosphorus limit. It is 800 ppm to 1200 ppm and there is no difference in the phosphorus limits in each specification. The only difference between the four specifications is the 3 clutch friction test results.