I've always wanted to ask the question... Is there a difference on which is better for a motor?
Sodium vs Moly in motor oil
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They serve two different purposes. Moly is a friction modifier and sodium is mainly a detergent but does have some properties as a friction modifier and corrosion inhibitor, if I remember correctly.
There are more than one way to have a good oil with a different additive package. Mobil/Castrol/Valvoline all use different additive packages and they all meet specs. Some people do not like the sodium as it could be mistaken for coolant in the oil. A lot of people just prefer the boron/moly combo over the sodium, just a personal preference more than anything.
There are more than one way to have a good oil with a different additive package. Mobil/Castrol/Valvoline all use different additive packages and they all meet specs. Some people do not like the sodium as it could be mistaken for coolant in the oil. A lot of people just prefer the boron/moly combo over the sodium, just a personal preference more than anything.
ok ty for the reply/answer
I always thought Sodium, calcium and magnesium were part of the detergent package. While zinc, moly and boron were part of the anti-wear package or with moly part of the friction modifier (FM) package, along with other nonmetallic organics in the FM role.
Penrite Oils use a Zinc equivalent level (full zinc) to represent the contributions from all the anti-wear agents.
Penrite: "FULL ZINC + is an anti wear additive package for ultimate engine wear protection containing optimum zinc levels, boron and organomolybdenum complex to lift the total level of anti wear package additives to over 1800+ ppm."
Penrite Oils use a Zinc equivalent level (full zinc) to represent the contributions from all the anti-wear agents.
Penrite: "FULL ZINC + is an anti wear additive package for ultimate engine wear protection containing optimum zinc levels, boron and organomolybdenum complex to lift the total level of anti wear package additives to over 1800+ ppm."
Originally Posted By: SR5
I always thought Sodium, calcium and magnesium were part of the detergent package. While zinc, moly and boron were part of the anti-wear package or with moly part of the friction modifier (FM) package, along with other nonmetallic organics in the FM role.
Penrite Oils use a Zinc equivalent level (full zinc) to represent the contributions from all the anti-wear agents.
Penrite: "FULL ZINC + is an anti wear additive package for ultimate engine wear protection containing optimum zinc levels, boron and organomolybdenum complex to lift the total level of anti wear package additives to over 1800+ ppm."
This is the main reason I asked this question after reading posts on the UOA section as well as this section of forums either way I just find the topic interesting.
I always thought Sodium, calcium and magnesium were part of the detergent package. While zinc, moly and boron were part of the anti-wear package or with moly part of the friction modifier (FM) package, along with other nonmetallic organics in the FM role.
Penrite Oils use a Zinc equivalent level (full zinc) to represent the contributions from all the anti-wear agents.
Penrite: "FULL ZINC + is an anti wear additive package for ultimate engine wear protection containing optimum zinc levels, boron and organomolybdenum complex to lift the total level of anti wear package additives to over 1800+ ppm."
This is the main reason I asked this question after reading posts on the UOA section as well as this section of forums either way I just find the topic interesting.
I think, and I'm happy to be corrected by those that know more, that there is some pressure to reduce the metallic component of oils. Hence Phosphorous limits in SN oils and low SAPS oils for cars with DPF and other exhaust features.
This has probably led to two things. Some manufacturers developing more effective organometallic compounds for things like zinc and moly, that do more with less. Or finding completely nonmetallic (or organic - in the chemistry sense of the word) solutions to these essential duties. I think Valvoline is strongly following this second path.
The problem with both of these paths, and it is only a minor problem, is that a cunning trick of chemistry is completely lost to the blunt tool that is cheap oil analysis ( either VOA or UOA).
This has probably led to two things. Some manufacturers developing more effective organometallic compounds for things like zinc and moly, that do more with less. Or finding completely nonmetallic (or organic - in the chemistry sense of the word) solutions to these essential duties. I think Valvoline is strongly following this second path.
The problem with both of these paths, and it is only a minor problem, is that a cunning trick of chemistry is completely lost to the blunt tool that is cheap oil analysis ( either VOA or UOA).
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Originally Posted By: SR5
I think, and I'm happy to be corrected by those that know more, that there is some pressure to reduce the metallic component of oils. Hence Phosphorous limits in SN oils and low SAPS oils for cars with DPF and other exhaust features.
This has probably led to two things. Some manufacturers developing more effective organometallic compounds for things like zinc and moly, that do more with less. Or finding completely nonmetallic (or organic - in the chemistry sense of the word) solutions to these essential duties. I think Valvoline is strongly following this second path.
The problem with both of these paths, and it is only a minor problem, is that a cunning trick of chemistry is completely lost to the blunt tool that is cheap oil analysis ( either VOA or UOA).
Excellent post. My belief as well.
I think, and I'm happy to be corrected by those that know more, that there is some pressure to reduce the metallic component of oils. Hence Phosphorous limits in SN oils and low SAPS oils for cars with DPF and other exhaust features.
This has probably led to two things. Some manufacturers developing more effective organometallic compounds for things like zinc and moly, that do more with less. Or finding completely nonmetallic (or organic - in the chemistry sense of the word) solutions to these essential duties. I think Valvoline is strongly following this second path.
The problem with both of these paths, and it is only a minor problem, is that a cunning trick of chemistry is completely lost to the blunt tool that is cheap oil analysis ( either VOA or UOA).
Excellent post. My belief as well.
Yes, new oils seem to be getting away from the moly days.
My favorite oil of choice (that costs more, but I do buy and then use when I can) is very rich in moly, however that is Redline brand oil.
My favorite oil of choice (that costs more, but I do buy and then use when I can) is very rich in moly, however that is Redline brand oil.
Sodium and molibidenum, are metals. Sodium sulfonate is a detergent, as are calcium sulfonate and magnesium sulfonates. The Moly is being put aside because it goes well with higher base oils that has high thermal stability, like group IV and V. But the industry is using more and more of Group III and III plus, so the moly content is going down, since in lower stable base it could give some deposits at ringlands, accordingly to studies flown throught this board.
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