I've had a Sable wagon, LTD full size with the wooden sides and a Camry wagon. Also had an Accord hatchback. And drove a MB sportwagon rental on the autobahns of Germany several months ago. They were fine cars except the LTD; that thing would rooster tail at the slightest provocation. But they have an uncool stigma in the USA.
Why Does America Hate Wagons?
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While it's true that orthopedic patients its easier to get in and out if these vehicles.... 90% of people are my age or younger or just a bit older than me. So, its not many orthopedic people "needing" an SUV or CUV. It's about appearance. Most people I see with these vehicles are in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. Not 60s, 70s plus and upward in age. There are some people that are older that have them no doubt. My mom and step father have one for real orthopedic reasons and more issues has well.
My mom and step father have a 99 Expedition which is helpful for this very reason. Plus it can take my mom's wheelchair in the back where it is covered and out if the weather. Plus it has a lift and ramp on it too. Cost $6000 to have all that added.
My mom and step father have a 99 Expedition which is helpful for this very reason. Plus it can take my mom's wheelchair in the back where it is covered and out if the weather. Plus it has a lift and ramp on it too. Cost $6000 to have all that added.
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JHZR2
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Originally Posted By: bbhero
It's about appearance.... SUVs and CUVs just look a lot better. Yes, the higher ground clearance helps if going off the beaten path or in areas that get deeper snowfalls over 10 inches. But really it most likely has to do with appearances.
I can't say I agree with that... Looks are relative, this is about duping the public.
The reality is that amongst my peer group, say late 20s to early 40s, so many say "I won't be seen in a minivan, that's what my parents drove". The older age group felt the same way about wagons... which is why vans, which they thought were really cool when teenagers in the 70s, were popular as fuel efficient "minivans".
Add in the emotions of perceived safety and perceived larger testicles and SUVs appeal to many.
But the reality is that large volume, efficient transport is always necessary. Unfortunately the latest SUV craze is about the worst incarnation of it yet. A "large" three row SUV, including the Tahoe, but not the Suburban, has nearly worthless cargo space if the third row is up. MPGs are poorer too. They can have good looks but so can wagons...
It's about appearance.... SUVs and CUVs just look a lot better. Yes, the higher ground clearance helps if going off the beaten path or in areas that get deeper snowfalls over 10 inches. But really it most likely has to do with appearances.
I can't say I agree with that... Looks are relative, this is about duping the public.
The reality is that amongst my peer group, say late 20s to early 40s, so many say "I won't be seen in a minivan, that's what my parents drove". The older age group felt the same way about wagons... which is why vans, which they thought were really cool when teenagers in the 70s, were popular as fuel efficient "minivans".
Add in the emotions of perceived safety and perceived larger testicles and SUVs appeal to many.
But the reality is that large volume, efficient transport is always necessary. Unfortunately the latest SUV craze is about the worst incarnation of it yet. A "large" three row SUV, including the Tahoe, but not the Suburban, has nearly worthless cargo space if the third row is up. MPGs are poorer too. They can have good looks but so can wagons...
Our wagon I think looks decent. It is an absolute hoot to drive, basically a grown ups Subaru WRX with a manual transmission coupled to great 250HP turbo engine with mid range rewarding punch. My wife loves this car despite its average reliability these days(192k miles/11 year old).
The Acura TSX wagon, another great case of wagon selling diddly squat compared to the sedan version. I thought about getting one but they are so rare and overpriced in the used market that it literally would have cost more than my new GSW.
I have noticed that many suvs are worthless when it comes to utility. Recently experienced a 2015 Jeep Patrtiot as a rental veh and its cargo capabilitieas were worse than a midsized sedan. I have found that true with many of the CUV's. Defeats the purpose of an suv to me.
The Honda Element is a very versatile suv. Its almost like having a small pickup.
The Honda Element is a very versatile suv. Its almost like having a small pickup.
I'm sorry but it is about appearance for most people. Because as you said most people in the target demographic say they wouldn't want to be seen in a minivan... Appearances. The minivans, vans, station wagons just don't look good to many people in the late 20s- early 50s crowd. I see MANY of them in my area of Williamsburg. Hardly ever do I see a minivan or station wagon. Why?? People in general just don't like the look of them as a general rule. Now I'm not knocking them or anyone for that at all. But many of these same people would be just as well served by a nice sedan IF their families were small and they didn't take any long road trips routinely. You are correct about the safety part of the equation plus being higher up does provide better visibility as well. Those two factors are certainly a good size of the picture. You could make a station wagon that was as safe as an Abrams M1 A1 tank, seat 6 people, could be able to drive through a woodland Forrest, and over mountains. But its a station wagon. Doesn't look good or cool. Not the appearance people want. Get the duster ready because that puppy will sit on the lot for quite awhile.
Again, I have no problem with people having them at all. It's their choice to but as they see fit for themselves and their families.
Again, I have no problem with people having them at all. It's their choice to but as they see fit for themselves and their families.
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One of the most common vehicles I saw while on vacation in Vermont... Subaru Outback and this WRX. Made sense for a couple of reasons.. #1 Vermont does see big snowstorms that can exceed 8 inches easily. These Subarus with all wheel drive can perform very well in that type of weather. #2 it is not an SUV. SUVs are not likely well thought of in Vermont as a rule. For obvious reason.
One of my favorite cars of all time was a wagon. I plan on owning another, sometime in the not-so-distant yet not-too-recent future. Maybe by the end of the year.
Maybe.. I have an SUV now, and it's killer. My second car is ready to be replaced, though.
We will see. It's been summer here, right through the end of December. So where is the snow we are all ready for..
Maybe.. I have an SUV now, and it's killer. My second car is ready to be replaced, though.
We will see. It's been summer here, right through the end of December. So where is the snow we are all ready for..
Can the case be made that SUVS and minivans are wagons? Or, crossovers, like Ford Freestyle, and Flex? Or.. Chrysler Pacifica, the most minivan crossover ever.
These are wagons ^^^ ?
Mine was turbo luxo-wagon, so. Whole 'nother level. I miss that car. That's why I'm going to buy another one. It will happen.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
That is an interesting picture.. Ia that an early 240 with an AWD delete?
These are wagons ^^^ ?
Mine was turbo luxo-wagon, so. Whole 'nother level. I miss that car. That's why I'm going to buy another one. It will happen.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
That is an interesting picture.. Ia that an early 240 with an AWD delete?
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
The "SUV" is nothing more than the modern day station wagon.
Except its ride, handling, fuel economy, running costs, acceleration, and braking are all worse than an equivalently engineered wagon's would be. And they make the roads less safe for everyone else.
SUVs are for three things:
1. Towing
2. Off-roading
3. Dealing with physiological issues that make lower vehicles harder to get in and out of
If you do those things, then you're living in the golden age. Buy your SUV and enjoy it. But you're the minority. Most people who buy SUVs do it for the sake of image, or because of a perception of safety. That's why so many SUVs are so mediocre at the things SUVs are supposed to be good at -- they're made for people who should have bought something else, but didn't want to because reasons.
The "SUV" is nothing more than the modern day station wagon.
Except its ride, handling, fuel economy, running costs, acceleration, and braking are all worse than an equivalently engineered wagon's would be. And they make the roads less safe for everyone else.
SUVs are for three things:
1. Towing
2. Off-roading
3. Dealing with physiological issues that make lower vehicles harder to get in and out of
If you do those things, then you're living in the golden age. Buy your SUV and enjoy it. But you're the minority. Most people who buy SUVs do it for the sake of image, or because of a perception of safety. That's why so many SUVs are so mediocre at the things SUVs are supposed to be good at -- they're made for people who should have bought something else, but didn't want to because reasons.
doodfood,
so you must like this one then....
Holden made a long wheelbase 4 door ute with a whole heap of the dynamics of the sedan (and wagon variants)...
It would be in my choice of vehicles...
(There's a few LS engined AWD variants out there too)
so you must like this one then....
Holden made a long wheelbase 4 door ute with a whole heap of the dynamics of the sedan (and wagon variants)...
It would be in my choice of vehicles...
(There's a few LS engined AWD variants out there too)
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Wagons are widely available in the US. They just mislabel them as "hatchbacks". My 1995 Escort is a hatchback. The current Focus is a small station wagon.
the difference between a hatchback and a station isthat the hatch of the station opens all the way down to the boot floor, and a hatchback doesn't so you can't ust slide stuff in.
Wagons are widely available in the US. They just mislabel them as "hatchbacks". My 1995 Escort is a hatchback. The current Focus is a small station wagon.
the difference between a hatchback and a station isthat the hatch of the station opens all the way down to the boot floor, and a hatchback doesn't so you can't ust slide stuff in.
Originally Posted By: Silk
One can go higher than that
One can go higher than that
I thought the 94 era Camry wagon was great, great mileage- room, decent looks. Those are gone tho.
the suvs get "bad " mileage, my Toyota highlander 19-20 in town. they are high, hurts wind on the hi way
the suvs get "bad " mileage, my Toyota highlander 19-20 in town. they are high, hurts wind on the hi way
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