Liberty Civil Defense 9mm 50gr 2000FPS

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Golden Saber indeed.

I posted in the rebates section back around Black Friday. Remington ran a Black Friday deal on their Golden Saber BJHP ammo, $10 MIR per 25 rd box. Scored 10 boxes @ $14.49/ea... $4.49/ea after rebate. Just sent in my UPC's and stuff yesterday.
 
Thanks guys. I will test it and see what I think about it. I shot some of it today and it is extremely loud. It also punched through a 3/16" steel plate I use to punch holes in with my AR's and Ak's. Penetration through hard barriers seems great with the Liberty, i assume it has to do with the Velocity. Im sure in Soft tissue the tip would come apart with how large the Hollow point cavity is.

I know I wouldn't want to be shot with the Liberty 50gr or not. Recoil is considerably less than my 147gr Hornady loads. For now I will keep carrying my Hornady 147Gr XTP subsonics.

If I carry the Liberty I may use it when I carry at church, as it would be ideal for use where you don't want a lot of penetration, but you want high energy.


I'll pick up some DPX or Golden Saber or something next time I am at the shop. I know the owner fairly well, he said the Liberty is his hottest selling Load in 9mm and he likes it as well as he likes fast loads. He carries an FN 5.7
 
The penetration with .380 hollow points is not as bad as i thought, with some brands. I am re-thinging the fmj i carry in my .380.
 
You have to remember there is a very big market for all of this "boutique" style of ammunition. A lot of which can cost over $3.00 a round for some of the common calibers like 9 MM and .45 ACP.

Because of that there will be a never ending source of this nonsense coming on the market. All encased in fancy packaging with a catchy name tagged to it. Much like the "DRT" rifle ammo with the Mandrel sisters on the box. Or else that "G2 Research RIP" stuff they sell, with the CNC machined bullets. None of this stuff performs as well as the much more proven self defense ammunition from the major manufacturers, all of which have been producing ammunition for decades. And in the process forgotten more about terminal performance than these guys will ever know.
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/...-rounds-part-1/

Light bullets could be a way to tame a firearms recoil for those with arthritis fibromyalgia tendonitis carpaltunnel....

It's could also be an option for condo/apt dwellers that still like their neighbors.

Besides the above link list, can also consider Magsafe and Glaser products.



Thank you for the link to the article. This gave me the confidence to carry the liberty. 12" of penetration in the gel through clothes is good enough for me. 10" through glass is enough for me as well. I don't plan of using my self defense pistol to shoot anyone through a windshield.

After shooting it yesterday through 3/16 steel and busting through some cinder blocks and bricks with it I don't have any issue carrying this round. It would blow straight through a chest bone.

Almost every test online show it making it to 11-12 inches through gelatin and denim. It will work great for a carry load at church or home where I don't want 18-20" of penetration.
 
The deal with glaser and other frangible ammo is simply that in order to be the most effective...any bullet that is going to reliably shut down a bad guy will reliably go through walls. You need to be able to reach and damage vital organs. Otherwise you just have a nasty flesh wound which may or may not take down a bad guy.


If these rounds were truly effective, you would see law enforcement embracing them somewhere. If you are worried about a bullet over penetrating a bad guy and flying off somewhere...use a 380 over a 9mm. They usually only go 10 to 12 inches, but at least you will get expansion and weight retention on the bullets.
 
FWIW, the air marshals used Glaser rounds for a while in the 70s and 80s before switching to normal JHPs in 357Sig. According to Wikipedia.
 
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
FWIW, the air marshals used Glaser rounds for a while in the 70s and 80s before switching to normal JHPs in 357Sig. According to Wikipedia.


That's because of fear of causing a catastrophic decompression of the cabin. Even though it has been proven that would not happen if a bullet pierced the cabin.
 
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
FWIW, the air marshals used Glaser rounds for a while in the 70s and 80s before switching to normal JHPs in 357Sig. According to Wikipedia.


As mentioned that was due to irrational fears of decompression, not because they were at all effective at incapacitating bad guys. Bonded JHP's are the way to go these days. If you want anything else, well get some ammo loaded with the Barnes DPX hollow points.
 
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Don't care to start a debate. Don't care about gelatin and denim. Don't care about FBI testing or what cops can afford to carry.

Do care about any data that proves that light and fast won't stop a bad guy. Haven't seen it.

http://guninstructor.net/Strasborg_Tests.pdf

The only thing truly effective is hitting the target. All else is meaningless to me. Too many get carried away in pathetic useless debates on what ammo or gun is best. Best gun is one that makes ammo go bang always. Best ammo goes bang when asked to always. Nothing else matters.

The OP seems to content with his choice of ammo, which seems to be capable of stopping any attack from rabid bricks, blocks, or gelatin(naked or wearing gelatin).

Liberty is not my brand but I would have no problem carrying it.
 
I saw this ammo and was looking at too. I am concerned about the accuracy. I cant image a bullet that light and big not spinning out of control everywhere. a .22 magnum goes 2000 fps but is small and not as effected by air mass. I was looking at the .40 in this stuff. It looks impressive.
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech

Do care about any data that proves that light and fast won't stop a bad guy. Haven't seen it.

http://guninstructor.net/Strasborg_Tests.pdf


"The Strasbourg Tests were initiated on the strength of the premise that briefly amplified systemic pressure of a pecific magnitude can cause disorientation and loss of consciousness. It was determined that an accurate means of monitoring this elevated system pressure would be to surgically install a custom-designed peak-hold needle transducer in to the carotid artery of an animal.

To better approximate the real-life situations normally encountered by law enforcement agents and military personnel, a corporate decision was made to conduct the tests using fully conscious animals."


Lovely ... should have used guys on death row for even better data.
eek.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Don't care to start a debate. Don't care about gelatin and denim. Don't care about FBI testing or what cops can afford to carry.

Do care about any data that proves that light and fast won't stop a bad guy. Haven't seen it.

http://guninstructor.net/Strasborg_Tests.pdf

The only thing truly effective is hitting the target. All else is meaningless to me. Too many get carried away in pathetic useless debates on what ammo or gun is best. Best gun is one that makes ammo go bang always. Best ammo goes bang when asked to always. Nothing else matters.

The OP seems to content with his choice of ammo, which seems to be capable of stopping any attack from rabid bricks, blocks, or gelatin(naked or wearing gelatin).

Liberty is not my brand but I would have no problem carrying it.



Thank you for the link. Very informative, probably controversial, but informative.
 
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Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
FWIW, the air marshals used Glaser rounds for a while in the 70s and 80s before switching to normal JHPs in 357Sig. According to Wikipedia.


As mentioned that was due to irrational fears of decompression, not because they were at all effective at incapacitating bad guys. Bonded JHP's are the way to go these days. If you want anything else, well get some ammo loaded with the Barnes DPX hollow points.


Even Glasers will exit an aircraft fuselage or window. They were chosen to limit penetration even if bad guys were struck, or if missed to reduce damage to aircraft structures, fuel systems, avionics, and passengers/flight crew (PILOTS!).
 
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