Engine Warm-Up Discussion.

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Great info...is there any credible oil additives that can help with that vulnerable engine operating envelope? Something like a archoil 9100? Seems like a solid boundary lubricant that would be there during that period would help? Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
 
Having spent an evening with one of the Australian chemists involved in the gear (and knwoing that some BITOGers know where the technology has progressed in the intervening 17-18 years, I can suggest this.

http://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/p...rm-up-wear.html

As a story, and one companys work towards it.

The guys who went on the Pennzoil experience stated that Shell/Pennz have some new additives coming on stream that sound like they will do similar.
 
But doesn't the statement
Quote:
THE UNSEEN DAMAGE THAT’S EATING AWAY AT YOUR ENGINE
seem a bit over the top?
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
But doesn't the statement
Quote:
THE UNSEEN DAMAGE THAT’S EATING AWAY AT YOUR ENGINE
seem a bit over the top?
smile.gif



LOL, but remember, the KV40 between a 5W20 and a 0W20 can be described as "massive"
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
But doesn't the statement
Quote:
THE UNSEEN DAMAGE THAT’S EATING AWAY AT YOUR ENGINE
seem a bit over the top?
smile.gif



Depends. I can SEE the damage that's eating away at my engine, so to me its understated.

Quite convincing as ads go, but IIRC they've been telling this story for a long time, so I wonder how or if the current stuff differs from the old stuff, and the stuff from their competitors.

It's unfortunate they can't identify their control(s). They mention "basic API SN oil" at some point, but I don't remember seeing that on the shelves.
 
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Originally Posted By: Ducked
It's unfortunate they can't identify their control(s). They mention "basic API SN oil" at some point, but I don't remember seeing that on the shelves.


It's a little bit more than a "basic" oil as a control...it's as measured against the fail limits of the sequence IV...

IMG_20150317_071101.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Ducked
It's unfortunate they can't identify their control(s). They mention "basic API SN oil" at some point, but I don't remember seeing that on the shelves.


It's a little bit more than a "basic" oil as a control...it's as measured against the fail limits of the sequence IV...

IMG_20150317_071101.jpg



I was quoting "basic API SN oil" from the caption from this graph

1425371769899.png


which is presented as an experimental comparison, with a control.

Your jug label mentions using the same oil with and without their own additive, I think for the tactile cam roughness comparison. That might qualify as a "basic API SN oil", and would in some ways be a better comparison, but my impression is they are talking about an off-the shelf product in the cumulative wear test shown in the graph.
 
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Whats the difference of magnatec? A little more polar (mag) oil in its base? Is that ester? Is that polar add, like polar VII?
 
Re the "control" thing, I suppose its not surprising that they don't want to get into comparative testing, though it'd be of interest to consumers.

Increases complexity a lot, detracts from their message, and could easily be perceived as negative advertising.

Amsoil do/did this, and, last time I looked, they seemed to make a right pig's ear of it.

http://forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php...+March#p1398817
 
What I see Castrol going after with Magnatec is cold start protection vs. engine cleanliness for example, which some of their competition targeted.

A bit off topic but I think it applies. Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant makes claims that addition of their additive makes the oil more polar so it clings better to parts after shutdown.

I cherry picked from their site: Botanical, polar, high-tech mono-ester LXE® wax. Thanks to Lubegard,there is no longer a risk of insufficient lubrication in cold starts. Provides outstanding cold start properties through polar behavior.

I think they're both going similar "issues."
 
I'm surprised Magnatec hasn't been pushed up here more than it has been, and that I haven't seen it so much. Wakefield markets very aggressively up here, and if they have something, it usually winds up on the shelf just about everywhere. Perhaps they really don't want to eat into their black and gold bottle sales too much up here, given the relatively poor pricing regime we face up here. Although, if they have room for their HM oil, I'm sure they can fit in Magnatec. Heck, some Walmarts carry almost their entire HDEO line, and we all know how hard that stuff can be to find.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
What I see Castrol going after with Magnatec is cold start protection vs. engine cleanliness for example, which some of their competition targeted.

A bit off topic but I think it applies. Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant makes claims that addition of their additive makes the oil more polar so it clings better to parts after shutdown.

I cherry picked from their site: Botanical, polar, high-tech mono-ester LXE® wax. Thanks to Lubegard,there is no longer a risk of insufficient lubrication in cold starts. Provides outstanding cold start properties through polar behavior.

I think they're both going similar "issues."



I think the Magnatec brand has been in use in the UK for about 30 years, though I couldn't find a launch date from a quick Google. Presumably there's been some development in that time.

The "botanical, polar" bit above, at least, would apply to the castor oil in the original (1909?) Castrol motor oil, so they've been banging this drum a long time. They might be quite good at it by now.
 
The Magnetech F150 ecoboost uoas are most impressive. The engine may be a low wearing engine like Patmans Vette engine but compared to other like engines running Syn oils with lower oil change intervals the Castrol GTX and Magnetech are the nicest by far posted.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
fredfactory,
it's SOP on a rebuild to run at a couple thousand revs for the sake of the cam rather than let it idle.

Look at the bottom line on the stribeck curve...the things that push you to the right are (more) surface speed and viscosity. The things that push you to the left are more load.

So, does this mean I warm up my engines in the best way possible?
grin.gif


When it's really cold out — near freezing or below — I generally sit in the driveway with the car in Park or Neutral, and steadily hold the engine at 30%-40% of its redline until it reaches normal operating temperature. (e.g. ~2.5k in a car with a 7k redline) Then I either drive away, or go back inside to let the cabin heater do its job. If I'm understanding you correctly, increasing the engine speed moves us right on the graph, while leaving the engine (relatively) unloaded keeps us from being drug back to the left in the process. Rightmost is where we want to be, yes?

So does that meant I'm warming up my engine the "best" way? If so, why doesn't the ECU just do this on its own? Because it freaks people out and makes their car difficult or impossible to drive for a few minutes until it's up to temp? Should I really be doing this every time it's "cold" outside? (i.e.

I remember reading this tip in a shop manual, for mechanics who didn't want to stand around and wait for the car to idle up to NOT. I thought I read it in a Helm's, but I can't find it in mine, so maybe I actually read it in a dream…
 
Quote:
If so, why doesn't the ECU just do this on its own?


My Nissan Frontier does just that, idles the engine at about 1800 RPM until the engine warms up and then drops the idle to about 700 RPM.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
My Nissan Frontier does just that, idles the engine at about 1800 RPM until the engine warms up and then drops the idle to about 700 RPM.

Yeah, I suppose it does, though my Hondas typically aren't quite that aggressive about it. (Maybe 700->1400.) I'd actually thought it was more about preventing the cold engine from stalling than warming it up more quickly, though I suppose both are accomplished.
thumbsup2.gif


So yes, revving the engine even higher than the ECU typically does is not just okay, but preferable? Does 35% of redline seem a reasonable balance? And leaving the transmission in neutral during the process is also preferred to loading the engine?
 
Originally Posted By: serversurfer
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
My Nissan Frontier does just that, idles the engine at about 1800 RPM until the engine warms up and then drops the idle to about 700 RPM.

Yeah, I suppose it does, though my Hondas typically aren't quite that aggressive about it. (Maybe 700->1400.) I'd actually thought it was more about preventing the cold engine from stalling than warming it up more quickly, though I suppose both are accomplished.
thumbsup2.gif


So yes, revving the engine even higher than the ECU typically does is not just okay, but preferable? Does 35% of redline seem a reasonable balance? And leaving the transmission in neutral during the process is also preferred to loading the engine?


Interesting topic. My question is how does leaving the transmission in neutral load the engine?
 
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