Ford Focus Electric - Wow! - Anybody Else Know?

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I think these likely would work for more people than their sales figures show but, at the same time, they're really only good as a second car. Sure, most of my driving might be around town at 50 miles a day or less. But if I need to go to Raleigh, and this is my only car, I need to go rent something.

I think that's where the Chevy Volt makes a lot of sense for single folks who have one car. It's primarily electric, but it does have provisions to charge itself if you have to go outside of your normal range.

...


I agree, thats where the RE available in some models comes into play. I did check as well and the RE keeps the tax credit. There don't appear to be any state incentives here for private ownership.

I believe that BMW i includes a program to use a "regular" BMW when needed, though I'm unclear if you have to pay for it or if it is a courtesy type car.

I did a little math last time we talked about this and if you have access to a "free" charge station or can only charge at home it makes some economic sense. If you have to pay to charge then it is not any cheaper than fuel.

I'm intrigued by these electric cars, I think the technology is getting closer to mainstream viability.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
Originally Posted By: Burt
My tax dollars at work. You're welcome.



I think it's tax money well spent too. It sure beats spending trillions on foreign wars in an effort to secure oil.


How much oil did we get out of Iraq?

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: Burt
My tax dollars at work. You're welcome.

I know! I was going to mention that. Thank-you. I know how you feel. Always felt I overpaid (progressive tax system) on taxes, yet now I feel like a freeloader. A no-gasoline freeloader here.


You shouldn't feel like that at all. You did what was best for your situation and didn't freeload on anybody.
While I may not agree with tax incentives going for your purchase...I see nothing wrong at all in your decision to buy an electric and receive those rebates.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Tuffy1760
Great pick up!! Will AAA tow you if you run out a charge?? How about a small generator for emergencies....
Vw electrics on TV here in NY for a great price...
Focus nice car that can haul people and cargo...


Ha-Ha, yes I do have AAA and wondered the same thing. I know when you run out of gas in a normal vehicle, AAA will bring you gas. So, equivalent would be the battery running out on this all-electric car, yet all you can really do is tow it to the nearest Walgreens to charge it for a couple of hours! (... or anywhere else there is a charger of course).

Nice! You can get E-Golfs in NY! I tried to look at one in Colorado, found out they don't bring them here at all, only east and west coasts. That should be a good one.

I would encourage anybody who can't find a Ford Focus-Electric to get a Nissan Leaf. I almost got a Leaf instead. They are very good and proven now that they are in their 4th model year too. I had fun test driving the cool Leaf, very hipster styling, not quite a weird as the Juke anyway. Focus-E is in its 3rd model year AFAIK.

About hauling cargo in the Focus-E, it really stinks for that. The hatchback only holds a few grocery bags, my gym bag, not much space overall. Leaf is better on room in the hatchback. (Focus-E does have a normal back seat to put items though.) Not being a long-trip car, its OK with me, since no need for suitcases.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Historical point for me: My first gasoline-free travel day today! Just did 45 miles out of a possible range of 75 miles off a full charge. No other car driven, no gasoline, FINALLY for me. Electric company had to burn more coal, some natural gas burned, drew off of some wind too.

Waiting for the invention of the Flux Capacitor next to save us.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
...
Nice! You can get E-Golfs in NY! I tried to look at one in Colorado, found out they don't bring them here at all, only east and west coasts. That should be a good one.


Yep very limited areas. One of the guys on the 'tex just moved to GA with one, thinking of seeing if he's aware of any dealers with the ability to fix if needed.

Seems like there is on Focus Electric available here in "extended inventory".

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
About hauling cargo in the Focus-E, it really stinks for that. The hatchback only holds a few grocery bags, my gym bag, not much space overall. Leaf is better on room in the hatchback. (Focus-E does have a normal back seat to put items though.) Not being a long-trip car, its OK with me, since no need for suitcases.


Does the rear seat fold? If so is the resulting cargo area flat?

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
...

Does the rear seat fold? If so is the resulting cargo area flat?


Ah, nevermind I see that the battery is right behind the seat, so even if it folds the area isn't flat. Still if it holds what you need it to hold...

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Ah, nevermind I see that the battery is right behind the seat, so even if it folds the area isn't flat. Still if it holds what you need it to hold...

True that. Battery sticks up in the floor of the hatchback, taking up some volume, not all though of course.

Funny: My old-ish 07 BMW (I still have, selling...) has had it's electric trunk solenoid out for a while now, which means I've been throwing groceries and other light bags in the back seat for a while!! -

-------Looks like the Focus Electric might make me continue to do that, but really the hatchback does hold some things, and even has a handy compartment that holds stuff between the battery and the rear bumper in the hatchback. Its not that bad. Still, get a Leaf if cargo ability is an issue.

Good news is that bike racks fit on the outside anyway, right?! And for carpoolers, about 4 briefcases fit under the hatch OK if thats an issue.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
(VW E-Golf) Yep very limited areas. One of the guys on the 'tex just moved to GA with one, thinking of seeing if he's aware of any dealers with the ability to fix if needed.

Seems like there is on Focus Electric available here in "extended inventory".


Good thing about the E-Golf should be there's no IC engine or automatic transmission to need fixing. If its like the Focus Electric, the transmission is just a 1-speed gear/differential, thats all. No shifting mechanism. Drivetrain complexity goes down.

I'm just learning about what maintenance the Focus Electric needs. Probably differential/gear oil needed, with a magnetic drain plug to clean off. Guessing the electric motor bearings are sealed like long-lasting wheel bearings are.

I did notice there is anti-freeze coolant for the battery, assuming, and motor, with heating elements in case cabin heat is needed more. So there is a water pump that could go out like on a gasoline engine.

 

[IndyIan]

So what's the weight distribution like then, with the batteries back there? I'd assume an a electric motor would be lighter up front too?

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
...
Good thing about the E-Golf should be there's no IC engine or automatic transmission to need fixing. If its like the Focus Electric, the transmission is just a 1-speed gear/differential, thats all. No shifting mechanism. Drivetrain complexity goes down.

...


There are a few on "the 'tex" (VWVortex) that have had an electrical issue which amounts to a bad motor controller. I'd want to make sure that at least there is a dealer in the ATL metro that can order parts and VW will allow to repair it, at least.

I'm close to convincing myself that I could have and electric vehicle, so I'm interested in how your experience goes.

You may have seen this:



and this:



Could not find a lot on the Focus but expect it is similar.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
So what's the weight distribution like then, with the batteries back there? I'd assume an a electric motor would be lighter up front too?


Great question. Good news is: Perfect weight distribution. Bad news: High mass.

http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/02/f19/fact2013fordfocus.pdf
http://www.wired.com/2012/04/ford-focus-electric/

Focus Electric weight distribution: 49%/51% Front/Rear, balanced (remember you actually want 1% less over the front wheels to counter brake dive squat), yet the thing weighs 3,600 lbs, heavy with the 600 lb battery pack back there, and extra structural reinforcement over a gas engine Focus. Also, importantly, more bad news: Yaw inertia is too high really, but what can ya do? Needs batteries more between the wheels like Tesla S, can't do that on the Focus Electric sadly.

Ford C-Max Hybrid (my trip car) has the same basic chassis from Ford, built in the same factory in Michigan, and is the same weight as the Focus Electric. C-Max has a normal FWD 58%/42% distribution so its going to be the best snow car.

Focus 1.0L Ecoboost: Can't find F/R distribution, but like the other Focuses (Foci?) it is likely near 56%/44%, & does weigh only 3,000 lbs. Do try the technically-interesting Focus 1.0L Ecoboost model which gets in the 30's MPG in average mixed driving if you're considering a vehicle. (I don't work for Ford, nor have any stock in it, no vested interest, it just sounds like I do.) It would make a good motorcycle engine, seriously.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-ford-focus-se-10l-ecoboost-sedan-test-review

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder

There are a few on "the 'tex" (VWVortex) that have had an electrical issue which amounts to a bad motor controller. I'd want to make sure that at least there is a dealer in the ATL metro that can order parts and VW will allow to repair it, at least.

I'm close to convincing myself that I could have and electric vehicle, so I'm interested in how your experience goes.


Great videos! Thanks.
That's what you meant by "on the tex", I didn't understand earlier when you said that, OK got it now.
-----Thing about a bad motor controller on an E-Golf, should be pretty straightforward to bolt a new one on. I think these kinds of cars are fairly modular.
-------I hope you get a Nissan Leaf. Its been out for 4 years now so its solid reliable. I got so close to getting one of those instead of this Focus. So far I admire the Focus Electric, love its performance, glad I did it. Range is actually 76 miles at the most. I budget for 65 miles for a safety margin. The many Walgreens in the area each have recharging should I (rarely) misjudge my distance, not likely though.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
So what's the weight distribution like then, with the batteries back there? I'd assume an a electric motor would be lighter up front too?


Great question. Good news is: Perfect weight distribution. Bad news: High mass.

http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/02/f19/fact2013fordfocus.pdf
http://www.wired.com/2012/04/ford-focus-electric/

Focus Electric weight distribution: 49%/51% Front/Rear, balanced (remember you actually want 1% less over the front wheels to counter brake dive squat), yet the thing weighs 3,600 lbs, heavy with the 600 lb battery pack back there, and extra structural reinforcement over a gas engine Focus. Also, importantly, more bad news: Yaw inertia is too high really, but what can ya do? Needs batteries more between the wheels like Tesla S, can't do that on the Focus Electric sadly.

Ford C-Max Hybrid (my trip car) has the same basic chassis from Ford, built in the same factory in Michigan, and is the same weight as the Focus Electric. C-Max has a normal FWD 58%/42% distribution so its going to be the best snow car.

Focus 1.0L Ecoboost: Can't find F/R distribution, but like the other Focuses (Foci?) it is likely near 56%/44%, & does weigh only 3,000 lbs. Do try the technically-interesting Focus 1.0L Ecoboost model which gets in the 30's MPG in average mixed driving if you're considering a vehicle. (I don't work for Ford, nor have any stock in it, no vested interest, it just sounds like I do.) It would make a good motorcycle engine, seriously.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-ford-focus-se-10l-ecoboost-sedan-test-review

Hmmm, well I guess you can huck it sideways if you want atleast, and with the instant torque of the motor, maybe it will kind of be fun to play slide and catch?

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
...
-------I hope you get a Nissan Leaf. Its been out for 4 years now so its solid reliable. I got so close to getting one of those instead of this Focus. So far I admire the Focus Electric, love its performance, glad I did it. Range is actually 76 miles at the most. I budget for 65 miles for a safety margin. The many Walgreens in the area each have recharging should I (rarely) misjudge my distance, not likely though.


Something about the Leaf turns me off, not sure what but I'd be more likely to go with what you have or a BMWi than a Leaf, Perhaps even a Volt since I have friends at the dealer. I'm reasonably sure Leaf are dirt cheap around here though...

I have family that lives in the GA mountains. It is something like 130 miles which is out of range of all the pure electrics I know of (except Tesla), but it is within the range of a i3RE and there is a 240 outlet in the workshop there. Still I could always take something else and your 65 mile range will do anything else I do with any regularity.

 

[Tuffy1760]

I guess AAA would have to tow you to a AAA service shop to charge. Focus e different under the hatch?? Can you fold down back seats??

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Tuffy1760
I guess AAA would have to tow you to a AAA service shop to charge. Focus e different under the hatch?? Can you fold down back seats??
Just a tow to the nearest charger, and they are scattered all over town using the SAE J1772 standard plug. Battery sticks up quite a bit under the hatch. Seats do fold down to help some.

We may have to fund road repairs differently, as a lot of it is done with gasoline taxes. This is bad since gasoline taxes were the perfect linear user-tax, the more you used gas, the more you drove and/or heavier the vehicle, the more you paid.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-ford-focus-se-10l-ecoboost-sedan-test-review

Hmmm, well I guess you can huck it sideways if you want atleast, and with the instant torque of the motor, maybe it will kind of be fun to play slide and catch?


Motor has heavy amps-limiting on launch to keep from spinning the tires. I stomped on it today and there is almost a slight lag to it on launch from a standstill. It goes like a rocket once up to about 5 mph on up though. I'd not noticed anything before, so I'll try some hard launches some more. Certainly anti-wheelspin is there.

As for yaw stability control, the high polar moment of inertia (Izz) means its reluctant to turn, and when yaw starts, its harder to stop. We've had this on a lot of other vehicles for a long time. My BMW tries to reduce high polar inertia by using lighter magnesium on all structure forward of the A-pillars, an example of a rare serious design move to reduce polar inertia.

Here is an explanation of Newton's Law in angular yaw (spin-out):

http://ritzel.siu.edu/courses/302s/vehicle/vehicledynamics.htm
POLAR MOMENT OF INERTIA

A very important handling concept, which dictates the willingness of a car to change directional position if called Polar Moment of Inertia. “Poles of inertia” are just another way of saying “center of weight concentration”. The “moment” in this concept is determined by the front-to-rear location of the center of gravity. The car turns (changes direction) about its center of gravity in a corner so the further away the centers of weight concentration are located from the center of gravity (which is their common center), the bigger the “moment”.

A high polar moment of inertia is present when the weight concentrations are heavy and are far apart. The low polar moment of inertia is found when weight concentrations are light and are close together. In other words, it is easier to steer a vehicle with a low polar moment of inertia.

A vehicle with a low polar moment of inertia gives a quick response to steering commands. A vehicle with a high polar moment has high directional stability (meaning it resists changing its direction).

 

[stranger706]

Its nice to hear first hand about the Focus Electric.

I have a Focus ST right now. Its a blast to drive but I do worry about the long term reliability. I've been very interested in the Electric car market lately. I love the mechanical simplicity of it all. I imagine my next car will probably be electric. Just a few more years for the range and infrastructure to mature. I would need at least a 100 mile range in all weather conditions.

OTOH I can't believe gas is still $2 gallon.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: stranger706
. Just a few more years for the range and infrastructure to mature. I would need at least a 100 mile range in all weather conditions..


2016 Nissan Leaf has a 107 mile range option now (upgraded battery option, normal range battery is about 80 mile. Wait a year for a clearance sale on the 2016's for the best deal. I think the federal rebate will still be there too.

It all depends on your projected usage patterns. I rarely need more than 70 miles in one day. Other car iz fer long trips.