Mileage ratings on filters are baloney.

[Brian Barnhart]

According to the Filter Manufacturers Council (of which most major filter maker are members):

******************
"When the manufacturer assigns the filter to an application, filters are designed and manufactured to meet the requirements for that application. Therefore, the use of an aftermarket filter will not affect the service interval recommendations of the original equipment manufacturer. Reference FMC TSB 94-1, 98-1 and 04-1 for further details."

and,

"When the manufacturer assigns the filter to an application, filters are designed and manufactured to meet the requirements for that application. Vehicle warranties remain fully in effect when FMC members' filters are properly used."

and,

"In summary, filter manufacturers do not specify the service intervals for their
filters. Their products are designed to meet the requirements of the original
equipment manufacturers. Any deviation from the original equipment
manufacturers recommendations regarding service intervals should be carefully
evaluated to ensure that an interval is used that best meets the demands of the
individual's driving conditions."

Link
***********************


So if the filter manufacturer (who is a member of the FMC) is playing by the rules and recommends a particular filter for your car, the filter is expected to be suitable for the vehicle manufacturer's recommended service interval. If the filter manufacturer recommends a filter and recommends a lesser service interval on the box, I'd say the filter manufacturer is being deceptive, or isn't playing by the rules.

Of course, since the FMC is made up of filter manufacturers, they have lawyers who insert stuff like the following in an attempt to absolve them of responsibility should their products fail in some cases:

**************
"FMC provides selected service intervals as a public service. FMC assumes no
responsibility whatsoever for the accuracy of the intervals, or for any harm or
damage, which may occur if those service intervals, are utilized. Every vehicle
manufacturer recommends appropriate service intervals, and these may vary
based upon the individual use of the vehicle. Vehicle owners should use those
suggested intervals, along with other available information, including but not
limited to the intervals noted here, in making their own decisions about the
appropriate intervals for their vehicle."

Link
**********************

 

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Hrmmm. I should have thought this trough better. That filter is not out of a vehicle but from a hydraulic skid at work. I was meaning to use it as an exaggerated example. I was simply meaning that mileage ratings are [censored]. That is all.


If you want to make a point, use actual evidence of automotive filters not lasting their "up to XX,000 miles" claims to back it up.

All you did here is made this thread a useless example of sensationalism that we see all too often in online forums. But I'm sure you've at least managed to placate the aluminum foil hat wearing crowd.



It doesn't need anticdotes to support it. It takes logic and reasoning to figure out that dirt accumulated in 10000 miles in the desert at full throttle is not the same as 10000 miles driven ing the speed limit in the winter.

 

[IndyIan]

The CRV says in the manual to only change the oil filter every second oil change which is 15k miles in non severe duty IIRC, and I doubt there's anything all that special with the OEM filter. I really doubt any of the aftermarket filters are any different than their filters for other cars with half the OCI.
So logic would tell me that for most filters and cars, you could probably run the same filter for 2 OCI's.

 

[SilverC6]

I'd only run a premium filter for 15,000 miles.

No need cheaping out on the part if you're going to expect that kind of service out of it.

 

[Nate1979]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Hrmmm. I should have thought this trough better. That filter is not out of a vehicle but from a hydraulic skid at work. I was meaning to use it as an exaggerated example. I was simply meaning that mileage ratings are [censored]. That is all.


If you want to make a point, use actual evidence of automotive filters not lasting their "up to XX,000 miles" claims to back it up.

All you did here is made this thread a useless example of sensationalism that we see all too often in online forums. But I'm sure you've at least managed to placate the aluminum foil hat wearing crowd.



It doesn't need anticdotes to support it. It takes logic and reasoning to figure out that dirt accumulated in 10000 miles in the desert at full throttle is not the same as 10000 miles driven ing the speed limit in the winter.


You run an air filter right? You have serious problems if that grit in the desert is getting into your oil.

 

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Hrmmm. I should have thought this trough better. That filter is not out of a vehicle but from a hydraulic skid at work. I was meaning to use it as an exaggerated example. I was simply meaning that mileage ratings are [censored]. That is all.



So what is the full story? Hrs of use etc.

If that is a hydraulic filter, your workplace abuses and neglects their equipment.


Our plant get hyguard in bulk in a 10000 gallon tank that sits outside. A pump pumps it into a skid that holds 200 gallon. There are heaters and two positive displacement pumps pumping through two different sets of these filters and then out to the plant to the various fill stations and test stations. When nothing is taking any hyguard it just records through the tank through a relief valve. These filters are stacked three high in aa unit for each pump. There is a dp indicator and a dp switch on each filter. Neither work. The motor on one of the pumps locked up due to being overloaded due to the plugged filters. The filters hadn't been changed for 8 years and the pumps run constantly. If you looked at the top two filter you would have never known they were also plugged. The bottom filter was obviously plugged.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ Maintenance program/schedule needed at your plant.

 

[Eddie]

I feel reasonably sure that the major filter manufactures run tests using a particle distributions vs filter loading. The test results are then related to engine hours & particle output, to arrive at a mileage figure. Not everyone or every manufacture is involved in a conspiracy. >-)) ed

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
I feel reasonably sure that the major filter manufactures run tests using a particle distributions vs filter loading. The test results are then related to engine hours & particle output, to arrive at a mileage figure. Not everyone or every manufacture is involved in a conspiracy. >-)) ed


Yep, I'm betting the manufactures that make use statements of "up to X miles" have engineering test data to back up those claims. And it's probably based towards a worst case analysis.

 

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: BikeWhisperer
Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Hrmmm. I should have thought this trough better. That filter is not out of a vehicle but from a hydraulic skid at work. I was meaning to use it as an exaggerated example. I was simply meaning that mileage ratings are [censored]. That is all.


If you want to make a point, use actual evidence of automotive filters not lasting their "up to XX,000 miles" claims to back it up.

All you did here is made this thread a useless example of sensationalism that we see all too often in online forums. But I'm sure you've at least managed to placate the aluminum foil hat wearing crowd.



It doesn't need anticdotes to support it. It takes logic and reasoning to figure out that dirt accumulated in 10000 miles in the desert at full throttle is not the same as 10000 miles driven ing the speed limit in the winter.


You run an air filter right? You have serious problems if that grit in the desert is getting into your oil.


So air filters are 100% efficient? The same type of vehicle running in different conditions is going to load the oil with contaminates differently. The vehicle manufactures acknowledge this with filter and oil change intervals being different for different conditions.

What spurred this whole thought was seeing on napas website that their silver filters are only rated for 5000 miles.

 

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Maintenance program/schedule needed at your plant.

Yeah for some reason this place doesn't see it like that. If it is still working and no one is getting hurt no one cares.

The dumb thing is that we have this skid that feeds other filtering skids throughout the plant. We just added another one on this shutdown. It isn't a well engineerd system. There are two separate positive displacement pumps running the system and both have to be running all the time because one will not keep the line up to pressure when no one is using any hyguard.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Maintenance program/schedule needed at your plant.

Yeah for some reason this place doesn't see it like that. If it is still working and no one is getting hurt no one cares.


I hear ya ... but whoever runs that show should realize that broken down equipment is going to cost more time and money than just maintaining it to keep it reliable. Suggest a maintenance schedule for some stuff that's obvious if they don't have something in place and maybe they will reward you somehow.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: jhellwig

So air filters are 100% efficient? The same type of vehicle running in different conditions is going to load the oil with contaminates differently. The vehicle manufactures acknowledge this with filter and oil change intervals being different for different conditions.

What spurred this whole thought was seeing on napas website that their silver filters are only rated for 5000 miles.


Some of my engines live perpetually in clouds of sand, and I've yet to see high Si on a UOA. I'm talking dirt so bad, that removing a filter housing endcap leaves a pile of sand on the floor.

 

[pocketchange]

Seem's hydraulic systems are put into service and forgotten more often than not. I'm more concerned that the filter media goes away (with any filter system) after a few years of pulsing, when media gets stiff and breaks down.

Nothing like having to flush an entire system that's in good condition other than filter media being everywhere it should not be.

So much for using fluid that will pass sampling for everything except debris. pc

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Some of my engines live perpetually in clouds of sand, and I've yet to see high Si on a UOA. I'm talking dirt so bad, that removing a filter housing endcap leaves a pile of sand on the floor.

If you install a discarded pantyhose in the intake tube before the air box it would catch all those sands and larger debris. Your air filter will have easier job of filtering fine dust, and possibly extend filter life.