PQIA tests seven more oils, 9/19

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
PYB 5w30 NOACK is 14.4 per PQIA test done.


Yeah, but both PYB 5w-30 tests are old. Would be nice to see a current one.

 

[Torrid]

[censored] my Jag calls for conventional anyway. Might as well go with PYB.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: car51
I think we're saying that the noack # is better my good friend. Especially for turbo engines


+1
But the big diesels in the semi trucks ]and off road equipment] have turbos that run hot and last for million of miles/hours using conventional oils. Other than extreme cold pumpability What are we missing by saying bla bla syn oils?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: car51
I think we're saying that the noack # is better my good friend. Especially for turbo engines


+1
But the big diesels in the semi trucks ]and off road equipment] have turbos that run hot and last for million of miles/hours using conventional oils. Other than extreme cold pumpability What are we missing by saying bla bla syn oils?


Do you think 15w-40 has high volatility?

 

[jr047]

I just bought a case of PYB 5W-30, a good buy at Sam's Club right now. I've always trusted Pennzoil and their headquarters are in my city.

Both a previous PQIA study of the 5W-30, dated 9/17/2011, and Pennzoil's conventional SN data sheet, dated February 2010 (available from http://www.epc.shell.com/), show a NOACK of around 14 for the 5W-30 product, 14.4 in the PQIA test and 14.5 on Pennzoil's data sheet.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Pennzoil.htm

This thread discusses the 10W-30 version, but the 2010 data sheet from Shell shows a value of 13.7 for 10W-30. Again the data sheet is from 2010, but that is a big difference in five years!

If the PQIA test is accurate (and I have no reason to think it would not be), it makes me wonder if SOPUS is also now using GTL for the base oil in 5W-30, making it a full synthetic.

I'm new to all of this, but it's interesting! It also helps to reinforce my confidence in PYB in my vehicles.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: car51
I think we're saying that the noack # is better my good friend. Especially for turbo engines


+1
But the big diesels in the semi trucks ]and off road equipment] have turbos that run hot and last for million of miles/hours using conventional oils. Other than extreme cold pumpability What are we missing by saying bla bla syn oils?


Although i agree with you that plain old API SN/GF-5 oils are spec'd for turbos, heck I've used conventional along with sythetics for years in mine, there is a lot of literature touting the benefits of lower Noack. On BITOG, however, many use this one test as an end all be all rather than looking at the whole pkg.

Also, Those OTH trucks usually run 15w40 not to mention there's a large difference in EGR temps between OTH turbo diesel applications to gasoline turbos?

http://www.wcengineering.com/articles/dieselturbo.html

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: wemay
there is a lot of literature touting the benefits of lower Noack. On BITOG, however, many use this one test as an end all be all rather than looking at the whole pkg.


I don't think so. I think the general consensus is that when dealing with a group of oils that meet the same specs the one with the lowest NOACK may be favourable.

This is backed by specs like those enforced by ACEA, Mercedes, VW....etc which have even more strict limits on volatility (
It is obviously of value or there wouldn't be a limit imposed. It would also seem that the Europeans think that the API's limit of 15% is too high and subsequently impose their own limit of 10%. This is why oils like M1 0w-40 are low at 8.8%, despite a wide viscosity spread.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


Just a NOACK summation:
PYB 10w-30: 4.4%
QSGB 5w-30: 11.4%
GTX 10w-40: 11.0%


For mineral oils these first three are pretty impressive. Considering in previous tests Castrol Edge (BB) 5W30 was 11% and their GTX 5W20 was 14%

Both QS and Castrol would have been so happy with their products, until PYB walked into the room and stole all the thunder.

 

[wemay]

OVERKILL,

Let's take the example you used... M1 0w40 8.8% Noack. I can guarantee you there will be people here that consider pyb 10w30 a 'better' oil because of it's lower Noack.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: car51
I think we're saying that the noack # is better my good friend. Especially for turbo engines


+1
But the big diesels in the semi trucks ]and off road equipment] have turbos that run hot and last for million of miles/hours using conventional oils. Other than extreme cold pumpability What are we missing by saying bla bla syn oils?


Do you think 15w-40 has high volatility?
Less than 5w-30 PCMO.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Let's take the example you used... M1 0w40 8.8% Noack. I guarantee you there will be people here that consider pyb 10w30 a 'better' oil because of it's lower Noack.


The difference between that 8.8% and the 4.4% is significantly less than the difference between either of those numbers and oils pushing up on the 15% limit however.

There's a point of diminishing returns here.

I also SPECIFICALLY noted oils carrying the same specifications for just this reason. There aren't any specs that M1 0w-40 and PYB 10w-30 both carry.

However, to entertain this, we are comparing oils with a wide spread (0w-40) to a narrow spread (10w-30) so I would generally expect the oil with the narrow spread to be less volatile. That's a compromise when chasing the 0w-xx rating vs the "Arizona" rating

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: BigD1
They even rechecked the PYB NOACK, and it was 4.2. I guess they thought the tester was broken!

Why is PYB NOACK so low? Is it the base oil, additives, or what?

Yes it's the base oil.
Pennzoil is obviously using a 100% GTL base oil.
We found their YB 5W-20 had a very low Noack as well a while ago when we first speculated they must be using GTL base oils.

Since Shell is swimming in the stuff it's probably cheaper for them to use it to formulate their so-called conventional oil which is really a full synthetic.
PQIA Pres' Thomas Glenn wrote in his Lubes & Greases August column that "most if not all conventional 5W-20 and 5W-30 engine oils in the market today are de facto synthetic blends ....contain 30 to 40 percent GP III."
I wonder if Shell is using GTL base oils in all PYB grade?

QS seems to be their lower quality tier oil.



I think you are correct, it's economy of scale to use GTL base in all their products.

It doesn't dilute their market as most people buy on label & price. With expensive = good. So what if a few BITOGers see what is happening, it just means you are more likely to buy and recommend their oils.

 

[bbhero]

Yes I knew it was in 2011. But when that is all you have that's all you have

One of a very few complaints I have about SOPUS is their less than stellar tds. Valvoline has far better tds than them any day of the week.
But I still really like PYB, Pennzoil Platinum, and Ultra. I hope that the 4.4 result is spot on with the PYB 10w30. But the 5w20 was 6.5 so.. Maybe

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: wemay
Let's take the example you used... M1 0w40 8.8% Noack. I guarantee you there will be people here that consider pyb 10w30 a 'better' oil because of it's lower Noack.


The difference between that 8.8% and the 4.4% is significantly less than the difference between either of those numbers and oils pushing up on the 15% limit however.

There's a point of diminishing returns here.

I also SPECIFICALLY noted oils carrying the same specifications for just this reason. There aren't any specs that M1 0w-40 and PYB 10w-30 both carry.

However, to entertain this, we are comparing oils with a wide spread (0w-40) to a narrow spread (10w-30) so I would generally expect the oil with the narrow spread to be less volatile. That's a compromise when chasing the 0w-xx rating vs the "Arizona" rating

No, i understand that. I was using the extreme only as a point of emphasis.

But lets take the point of diminishing returns, for instance. How many dicussions have gone 6-7 pages where no matter what the original topic was, Noack between two oils, where the difference may have been slight (~6% vs ~9%), ended up taking a larger percentage of the thread? Forgive my rambling.

 

[Clevy]

So are we saying that pyb is actually gtl which means your paying for a lesser quality oil but actually getting their best stuff?

If so I'm don't buying syns.

 

[bbhero]

Yeah... Easy to start thinking that huh!!!

Why buy Pennzoil Platinum when PYB gives such good performance.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
So are we saying that pyb is actually gtl which means your paying for a lesser quality oil but actually getting their best stuff?

If so I'm don't buying syns.


Thinking hard about this too. No matter how much i like Mobil's customer service more and hate the Pennzoil foil-less caps.

 

[SR5]

Years ago, I operated high end research equipment in a lab for a large and well respected university. I did a lot of operating and testing for industry clients, including the local petrochemical industry.

I was into oil even back then. It was before the Internet, so most of my knowledge came from books. Anyway, I was working for a major oil company, on bearing wear, and getting to know the engineers, I asked them about their mineral oils (synthetics were very rare and fully imported back then). In particular, when I purchased their good and expensive oil, was it truly better then their cheaper oil product.

They said, their good stuff was always good and well made, but sometimes it would cost them too much to change production over for a short run. In this case they started producing and bottling the good stuff, and when the had enough they would just start filling the cheap bottles with good oil. This was considered common and quite acceptable, as they weren't ripping the consumer off, who was getting an excellent oil. They never advertised this fact, as it only happened sometimes, and they didn't want to confuse customers.

I would guess, Shell / Pennzoil have lots o GTL base that they need to use.

 

[Torrid]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
So are we saying that pyb is actually gtl which means your paying for a lesser quality oil but actually getting their best stuff?

If so I'm don't buying syns.


That's where I'm heading. I bought Castrol Edge because it was the best synthetic deal and my car recommends Castrol anyway. Neither car calls for synthetic. PYB sounds like a no brainer.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: wemay
Pennzoil is shooting themselves in the foot. Platinum having very similar test results to YB, does their synthetics no favors.


Yeah, I'm sure the average Walmart shopper goes to the PQIA site to check the NOACK before deciding between PYB and PP. The vast vast vast majority of consumers have no idea what that even means.


Alot of that going on here too, and not just about NOACK. But at least there is a lot of conjecture and just inventing stuff out of thin air.