$15 an hour will mean fewer jobs. Go to a Sheetz, and order food. You use a touch screen to make the order. You could easily pay there too. Automated cooking machines are available. A fast food restaurant could run on 2 employees per shift. Be careful what you wish for.
15 dollars a hour?
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Fight For $15 will be pandered in the upcoming election.
The middle class is getting smaller and politicians know this.
The middle class is getting smaller and politicians know this.
$15 for fast food workers and the like... yea. I make slightly over that for a SKILLED trade. I would never feel right the guy asking me if I would like to upsize my order making almost what I make...
Originally Posted By: whip
$15 an hour will mean fewer jobs. Go to a Sheetz, and order food. You use a touch screen to make the order. You could easily pay there too. Automated cooking machines are available. A fast food restaurant could run on 2 employees per shift. Be careful what you wish for.
+1 Very basic economics here. Always remember "pass through" . Who REALLY pays? We need high skill, high value jobs, not artificially jacked wages. The middle class ends up paying the freight.
$15 an hour will mean fewer jobs. Go to a Sheetz, and order food. You use a touch screen to make the order. You could easily pay there too. Automated cooking machines are available. A fast food restaurant could run on 2 employees per shift. Be careful what you wish for.
+1 Very basic economics here. Always remember "pass through" . Who REALLY pays? We need high skill, high value jobs, not artificially jacked wages. The middle class ends up paying the freight.
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Originally Posted By: LubeLuke
Why a 40hour week? 60 hours is reasonable and if they are at the bottom there is nothing wrong with working 70 hours a week to survive.
My average week is 60-70 hours of work. 12 hr days for 5 days = 60 and then Saturday if I feel like it.
Maybe you should look into working more efficiently then..
Who's taking care of the needs of your family? Or isn't there a family?
Why a 40hour week? 60 hours is reasonable and if they are at the bottom there is nothing wrong with working 70 hours a week to survive.
My average week is 60-70 hours of work. 12 hr days for 5 days = 60 and then Saturday if I feel like it.
Maybe you should look into working more efficiently then..
Who's taking care of the needs of your family? Or isn't there a family?
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Fight For $15 will be pandered in the upcoming election.
The middle class is getting smaller and politicians know this.
+1
Fight For $15 will be pandered in the upcoming election.
The middle class is getting smaller and politicians know this.
+1
The whiners lying awake nights worried about how much a Mickey D worker makes haven't a clue what we pay an E2 or E3 grunt to put his or her life on the line.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: eljefino
When 90% of one's income is gobbled by "essentials" like food, rent, and healthcare, the trinkets they buy for their few hours of amusement per week are a smallish piece of the puzzle. A person standing up fogging windows has a price for his existence. He has to pay real estate taxes for kids to go to school and health insurance as he has the same odds of falling ill a a rich guy. It's not unreasonable to expect he can meet those most basic needs by doing "anything" 40 hours a week.
Trinkets add up. Most of these people spend $100s/month on cell phones, cable, Netflix, McDs, Yoohoos, chips, etc.
You hear about the people getting $900 a month in food stamps and go hungry. All bad choices. Raising the minimum wage isn't going to do anything for people who make bad decision after bad decision. Some people can live well on $25K/yr. Some people, like athletes, can't live well on $100,000,000.
A family of 4 in this state sucking down all the "benefits" allowed would have to bring in almost 50K to match them. From whose pockets do the "benefits" flow? SO now we want to add to the middle class burden paying higher prices so "you want fries" can feel fulfilled at $15.o00 an hour?
Originally Posted By: eljefino
When 90% of one's income is gobbled by "essentials" like food, rent, and healthcare, the trinkets they buy for their few hours of amusement per week are a smallish piece of the puzzle. A person standing up fogging windows has a price for his existence. He has to pay real estate taxes for kids to go to school and health insurance as he has the same odds of falling ill a a rich guy. It's not unreasonable to expect he can meet those most basic needs by doing "anything" 40 hours a week.
Trinkets add up. Most of these people spend $100s/month on cell phones, cable, Netflix, McDs, Yoohoos, chips, etc.
You hear about the people getting $900 a month in food stamps and go hungry. All bad choices. Raising the minimum wage isn't going to do anything for people who make bad decision after bad decision. Some people can live well on $25K/yr. Some people, like athletes, can't live well on $100,000,000.
A family of 4 in this state sucking down all the "benefits" allowed would have to bring in almost 50K to match them. From whose pockets do the "benefits" flow? SO now we want to add to the middle class burden paying higher prices so "you want fries" can feel fulfilled at $15.o00 an hour?
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: hatt
I meant the guys who come around and collect the tumbleweeds. But serious. Almost everything you buy is associated with cheap labor somewhere. When you cut out all, or all that's possible, the low paid labor then you can lecture.
We all enjoy cheap labor, but in reality it hurts the overall economy, the country and all of us in the end.
Only in dreamville or to those who have no clue about the fundamentals of economics.
+1. The notion of "pass it through to the end user" is lost on them.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: hatt
I meant the guys who come around and collect the tumbleweeds. But serious. Almost everything you buy is associated with cheap labor somewhere. When you cut out all, or all that's possible, the low paid labor then you can lecture.
We all enjoy cheap labor, but in reality it hurts the overall economy, the country and all of us in the end.
Only in dreamville or to those who have no clue about the fundamentals of economics.
+1. The notion of "pass it through to the end user" is lost on them.
I haven't seen anyone mention savings yet. How are young family's who cut costs and have a savings going to feel when over night their $10-$15k it took them 7 years to save up for a new car, down payment for a new home, or child's college find is instantly worth 35% less.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: BTW
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: BTW
Then why not make the minimum wage $20/hr? Or $30...or $50?
The speed limit by my house is 25. Why not 35, 45 or 105?
So road safety and macroeconomics are analogous in your world?
Slippery slope argument applies equally to both.
Ummm, OK. LOL
Originally Posted By: BTW
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: BTW
Then why not make the minimum wage $20/hr? Or $30...or $50?
The speed limit by my house is 25. Why not 35, 45 or 105?
So road safety and macroeconomics are analogous in your world?
Slippery slope argument applies equally to both.
Ummm, OK. LOL
Will you explain it to those who have jobs at the current rates why they can't find jobs at $15/hr.
I have a friend who is an HR manager at a nation-wide commercial cleaning service. In areas where the wages are going up, they are reducing staff and cutting any marginal performers.
Other unintended consequences are those who find themselve with doubled salaries suddenly don't want to work as many hours because now they don't qualify for section 8 housing, or subsidized day care, or food stamps. So they are quitting or asking for fewer hours.
So before we rush head-long into this sort of thing, we need to look at all the consequences.
If folks are simply going to move from full time to part time so they can still get their check from the government, then how are we helping?
Are we really helping the low skill worker when employers won't be willing to pay "premium" wages for sub-par performance?
Is greed really the sole domain of the wealthy or employers? Or is there also greed on the side of those who are willing to stay on the dole and cut their hours so as not to lose their government check?
I'm all for people earning more money. However, I want to do it smartly. Not just by fiat, suggesting the employer has to pay just because others, who have no stake in their enterprise, tell them to pay more. I also want to see some protections for the taxpayer against those who would cut their hours to stay on the dole.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/.../?intcmp=hplnws the saga continues....I know in Tennessee , there is no minimum wage set by law, so many are paid $7.25 an hour, at least they pay that at places like AutoZone, Napa and so on where I live. Usually the delivery drivers make this.. I bet this will be deleted if this gets decided as political..I just thought it would come under business stuff.
A living wage for employees?
What a concept!
This is something all of us should support.
Ignore the comments from the nay-sayers who profit more from lower wages.
Most of us aren't unfortunate enough to rely upon a minimum wage job.
Let's pay that extra dime for a part to enable those lower on the food chain to make a decent living.
I have a friend who is an HR manager at a nation-wide commercial cleaning service. In areas where the wages are going up, they are reducing staff and cutting any marginal performers.
Other unintended consequences are those who find themselve with doubled salaries suddenly don't want to work as many hours because now they don't qualify for section 8 housing, or subsidized day care, or food stamps. So they are quitting or asking for fewer hours.
So before we rush head-long into this sort of thing, we need to look at all the consequences.
If folks are simply going to move from full time to part time so they can still get their check from the government, then how are we helping?
Are we really helping the low skill worker when employers won't be willing to pay "premium" wages for sub-par performance?
Is greed really the sole domain of the wealthy or employers? Or is there also greed on the side of those who are willing to stay on the dole and cut their hours so as not to lose their government check?
I'm all for people earning more money. However, I want to do it smartly. Not just by fiat, suggesting the employer has to pay just because others, who have no stake in their enterprise, tell them to pay more. I also want to see some protections for the taxpayer against those who would cut their hours to stay on the dole.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/.../?intcmp=hplnws the saga continues....I know in Tennessee , there is no minimum wage set by law, so many are paid $7.25 an hour, at least they pay that at places like AutoZone, Napa and so on where I live. Usually the delivery drivers make this.. I bet this will be deleted if this gets decided as political..I just thought it would come under business stuff.
A living wage for employees?
What a concept!
This is something all of us should support.
Ignore the comments from the nay-sayers who profit more from lower wages.
Most of us aren't unfortunate enough to rely upon a minimum wage job.
Let's pay that extra dime for a part to enable those lower on the food chain to make a decent living.
This is BITOG, where most change their own oil. So they probably also mow their own lawn.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: BigD1
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Put me in the camp of raising the minimum wage to a reasonable living wage, with an automatic annual adjustment for inflation. It's entertaining to hear people pound their chest and say get a job. Then tell the folks making minimum wage to get a better job...
People deserve the dignity of a job that pays enough to put a roof over their head in exchange for 40 hours of their life each week.
Yup all they care about is ME ME...lots of that going on in this thread.
What is funny is you guys are employing are sorts of underpaid folks right now. Did you ask the lawn guy (which you almost certainly beat down on the price) if his crew are all getting paid what you think they should be paid? Are you going to tip them to make up their wage working for you? And so on with all the numerous others you deal with. You guys are just like all the clowns who want taxes to be raised but never send in the extra money they say they should owe.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: BigD1
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Put me in the camp of raising the minimum wage to a reasonable living wage, with an automatic annual adjustment for inflation. It's entertaining to hear people pound their chest and say get a job. Then tell the folks making minimum wage to get a better job...
People deserve the dignity of a job that pays enough to put a roof over their head in exchange for 40 hours of their life each week.
Yup all they care about is ME ME...lots of that going on in this thread.
What is funny is you guys are employing are sorts of underpaid folks right now. Did you ask the lawn guy (which you almost certainly beat down on the price) if his crew are all getting paid what you think they should be paid? Are you going to tip them to make up their wage working for you? And so on with all the numerous others you deal with. You guys are just like all the clowns who want taxes to be raised but never send in the extra money they say they should owe.
Originally Posted By: Silk
I see a lot of selfish people here - I have my money and you're not going to get any of it.
It's not selfish to say I earned this money and I want to decide how it's spent. I don't want the government telling me how I have to spend it.
It's never selfish to want control over your own wealth. It's never selfish to resist allowing others control over the fruits of your labors.
If I earned it, either as a worker or as one who invested my capital, my time, talent and treasure to build a business, to resist others, who have no skin in my enterprise, from telling me how I have to run my business in not being selfish, it's being a prudent steward over my resources.
Sorry, selfish is when others think they have the right to mandate what I or anyone else does with our resources.
I see a lot of selfish people here - I have my money and you're not going to get any of it.
It's not selfish to say I earned this money and I want to decide how it's spent. I don't want the government telling me how I have to spend it.
It's never selfish to want control over your own wealth. It's never selfish to resist allowing others control over the fruits of your labors.
If I earned it, either as a worker or as one who invested my capital, my time, talent and treasure to build a business, to resist others, who have no skin in my enterprise, from telling me how I have to run my business in not being selfish, it's being a prudent steward over my resources.
Sorry, selfish is when others think they have the right to mandate what I or anyone else does with our resources.
I have a soon-to-be-driving nephew who asks me if he can have my Mustang Cobra every time he sees me. I finally got tired of hearing him ask and told him that if he works for 35 years like I did before I bought it, maybe he can buy one too.
Some people think that just because they exist they should have whatever they want, when they want it, for whatever effort they are willing to give. Such nonsense is the product of thinking without regard to logic and reality, and relying solely on emotions. What a mess.
Some people think that just because they exist they should have whatever they want, when they want it, for whatever effort they are willing to give. Such nonsense is the product of thinking without regard to logic and reality, and relying solely on emotions. What a mess.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
When 90% of one's income is gobbled by "essentials" like food, rent, and healthcare, the trinkets they buy for their few hours of amusement per week are a smallish piece of the puzzle. A person standing up fogging windows has a price for his existence.
When interest rates went down, the price of real estate went up to absorb the extra money.
Why do you think someone making a minimum wage of $15 / hour will not be paying 90% of that for essentials? If I rent apartments, do you think I will rent them for the same price when I know people can pay a lot more than they could? Why would I? If i need to fix them or replace them, it's going to cost me more money than it did.
Are you willing to control the price of everything else?
This living wage by legislation idea is about as harebrained as it gets. It will be a big wealth transfer from what's left of the middle class, but it won't be going to poor people.
OT, all our good middle class jobs went to Mexico, not China, via NAFTA, thank you Mr. Clinton for selling out your home state, and all we got in return was an invasion of illegal immigrants edit: who do not in any way add to the value of a labor force.
When 90% of one's income is gobbled by "essentials" like food, rent, and healthcare, the trinkets they buy for their few hours of amusement per week are a smallish piece of the puzzle. A person standing up fogging windows has a price for his existence.
When interest rates went down, the price of real estate went up to absorb the extra money.
Why do you think someone making a minimum wage of $15 / hour will not be paying 90% of that for essentials? If I rent apartments, do you think I will rent them for the same price when I know people can pay a lot more than they could? Why would I? If i need to fix them or replace them, it's going to cost me more money than it did.
Are you willing to control the price of everything else?
This living wage by legislation idea is about as harebrained as it gets. It will be a big wealth transfer from what's left of the middle class, but it won't be going to poor people.
OT, all our good middle class jobs went to Mexico, not China, via NAFTA, thank you Mr. Clinton for selling out your home state, and all we got in return was an invasion of illegal immigrants edit: who do not in any way add to the value of a labor force.
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Originally Posted By: javacontour
This is BITOG, where most change their own oil. So they probably also mow their own lawn.
speak for yourself! I have no problem paying people to do stuff I don't want to do. Put yard work in that category. I'd rather replace a clutch than do my own yard work. I mean, at least with a clutch replacement you don't have to do it again in two weeks. Plus, I actually enjoy wrenching on cars. There comes a time in life where you think "life is just too short to keep doing stuff you hate to do".
My yard dude comes twice a month, $150. 2 guys, 90 minutes each time. So, $25.00 an hour. Of course, they have expenses, but that still seems reasonable for all parties. OTOH, it would take me about 20 hours to do what they can do in 6...
As far as the $15.00 minimum wage, WA has had a pretty high minimum wage already--and Seattle is $15.00. I haven't seen the rampant destruction of society or businesses going out of business all over the place--though I also realize that $15/hr hear is not the same as $15/hr in many places given the cost of living. It's still an impossibly low wage here, so personally I think it's reasonable as a "minimum" wage.
This is BITOG, where most change their own oil. So they probably also mow their own lawn.
speak for yourself! I have no problem paying people to do stuff I don't want to do. Put yard work in that category. I'd rather replace a clutch than do my own yard work. I mean, at least with a clutch replacement you don't have to do it again in two weeks. Plus, I actually enjoy wrenching on cars. There comes a time in life where you think "life is just too short to keep doing stuff you hate to do".
My yard dude comes twice a month, $150. 2 guys, 90 minutes each time. So, $25.00 an hour. Of course, they have expenses, but that still seems reasonable for all parties. OTOH, it would take me about 20 hours to do what they can do in 6...
As far as the $15.00 minimum wage, WA has had a pretty high minimum wage already--and Seattle is $15.00. I haven't seen the rampant destruction of society or businesses going out of business all over the place--though I also realize that $15/hr hear is not the same as $15/hr in many places given the cost of living. It's still an impossibly low wage here, so personally I think it's reasonable as a "minimum" wage.
Well, I was speaking in generalities. I suspect MOST here do mow their own lawns. I didn't say all.
You make a point about COL. In some places, they are probably already paying close to $15/hr because that's what it takes to get workers.
Other places, where you can get a 2000 square foot home for $150K, $15/hr will be a hard sell as the COL isn't as high.
That's the problem with one-size-fits-all solutions. They don't really fit all. They fit in the mind of those proposing the solutions, but not necessarily those who will pay the costs.
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: javacontour
This is BITOG, where most change their own oil. So they probably also mow their own lawn.
speak for yourself! I have no problem paying people to do stuff I don't want to do. Put yard work in that category. I'd rather replace a clutch than do my own yard work. I mean, at least with a clutch replacement you don't have to do it again in two weeks. Plus, I actually enjoy wrenching on cars. There comes a time in life where you think "life is just too short to keep doing stuff you hate to do".
My yard dude comes twice a month, $150. 2 guys, 90 minutes each time. So, $25.00 an hour. Of course, they have expenses, but that still seems reasonable for all parties. OTOH, it would take me about 20 hours to do what they can do in 6...
As far as the $15.00 minimum wage, WA has had a pretty high minimum wage already--and Seattle is $15.00. I haven't seen the rampant destruction of society or businesses going out of business all over the place--though I also realize that $15/hr hear is not the same as $15/hr in many places given the cost of living. It's still an impossibly low wage here, so personally I think it's reasonable as a "minimum" wage.
You make a point about COL. In some places, they are probably already paying close to $15/hr because that's what it takes to get workers.
Other places, where you can get a 2000 square foot home for $150K, $15/hr will be a hard sell as the COL isn't as high.
That's the problem with one-size-fits-all solutions. They don't really fit all. They fit in the mind of those proposing the solutions, but not necessarily those who will pay the costs.
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: javacontour
This is BITOG, where most change their own oil. So they probably also mow their own lawn.
speak for yourself! I have no problem paying people to do stuff I don't want to do. Put yard work in that category. I'd rather replace a clutch than do my own yard work. I mean, at least with a clutch replacement you don't have to do it again in two weeks. Plus, I actually enjoy wrenching on cars. There comes a time in life where you think "life is just too short to keep doing stuff you hate to do".
My yard dude comes twice a month, $150. 2 guys, 90 minutes each time. So, $25.00 an hour. Of course, they have expenses, but that still seems reasonable for all parties. OTOH, it would take me about 20 hours to do what they can do in 6...
As far as the $15.00 minimum wage, WA has had a pretty high minimum wage already--and Seattle is $15.00. I haven't seen the rampant destruction of society or businesses going out of business all over the place--though I also realize that $15/hr hear is not the same as $15/hr in many places given the cost of living. It's still an impossibly low wage here, so personally I think it's reasonable as a "minimum" wage.
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