Filter efficiency
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I can tell you it's been verified that Wix own figures are exactly correct, but you'll have to take my word for it, as well as Wix of course who again publish this figure.
I'll start the derailment.
Are you saying that someone else verified those Wix XP numbers? I'm not asking you to divulge any sources. I'm willing to take your word for it, if, in fact, "someone else" tested them and found those numbers to be accurate.
I get a little skeptical because Motorcraft's published low efficiency numbers were inaccurate, and testing showed them to be better than advertised.
Yes it was verified by another source exactly matching Wix beta ratio, or 50% @20 microns under ISO 4548-12
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I can tell you it's been verified that Wix own figures are exactly correct, but you'll have to take my word for it, as well as Wix of course who again publish this figure.
I'll start the derailment.
I get a little skeptical because Motorcraft's published low efficiency numbers were inaccurate, and testing showed them to be better than advertised.
Yes it was verified by another source exactly matching Wix beta ratio, or 50% @20 microns under ISO 4548-12
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I can tell you it's been verified that Wix own figures are exactly correct, but you'll have to take my word for it, as well as Wix of course who again publish this figure.
I'll start the derailment.
Are you saying that someone else verified those Wix XP numbers? I'm not asking you to divulge any sources. I'm willing to take your word for it, if, in fact, "someone else" tested them and found those numbers to be accurate.
I get a little skeptical because Motorcraft's published low efficiency numbers were inaccurate, and testing showed them to be better than advertised.
Yes it was verified by another source exactly matching Wix beta ratio, or 50% @20 microns under ISO 4548-12
But you forgot the rest of the story, where the guts were transplanted to ensure no internal leakage, and the efficiency then shot up into the 90+% @ 20 microns.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I can tell you it's been verified that Wix own figures are exactly correct, but you'll have to take my word for it, as well as Wix of course who again publish this figure.
I'll start the derailment.
I get a little skeptical because Motorcraft's published low efficiency numbers were inaccurate, and testing showed them to be better than advertised.
Yes it was verified by another source exactly matching Wix beta ratio, or 50% @20 microns under ISO 4548-12
But you forgot the rest of the story, where the guts were transplanted to ensure no internal leakage, and the efficiency then shot up into the 90+% @ 20 microns.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Fram Ultra, Amsoil EA, Purolator Synthetic (not the classic or pureone pleaseOil Filter and Royal Purple oil filters are all the best you can do. The other oil filters use a lot of paper in the media, and some only mix in a little synthetic glass fibers. Fram TG, M1 Ext Performance, Bosch Premium all mix in lots of glass fibers, but still have paper in the media too.
How about Wix XP/Napa Platinum?
Wix publishes beta ratios that translates to 50% efficiency at 20 microns. Not my cup of tea. People believe that Wix themselves publishes an incorrect figure for their own product.
I can tell you it's been verified that Wix own figures are exactly correct, but you'll have to take my word for it, as well as Wix of course who again publish this figure.
Prepare for possible thread derailment over Wix XP efficiency.
What a joke. How many miles you get out of your engines using fram ultra filters? It would be the same using the wix xp
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Fram Ultra, Amsoil EA, Purolator Synthetic (not the classic or pureone pleaseOil Filter and Royal Purple oil filters are all the best you can do. The other oil filters use a lot of paper in the media, and some only mix in a little synthetic glass fibers. Fram TG, M1 Ext Performance, Bosch Premium all mix in lots of glass fibers, but still have paper in the media too.
How about Wix XP/Napa Platinum?
Wix publishes beta ratios that translates to 50% efficiency at 20 microns. Not my cup of tea. People believe that Wix themselves publishes an incorrect figure for their own product.
I can tell you it's been verified that Wix own figures are exactly correct, but you'll have to take my word for it, as well as Wix of course who again publish this figure.
Prepare for possible thread derailment over Wix XP efficiency.
What a joke. How many miles you get out of your engines using fram ultra filters? It would be the same using the wix xp
Quote:
..... Yes it was verified by another source exactly matching Wix beta ratio, or 50% @20 microns under ISO 4548-12 ....
First the Wix XP, Napa Plat efficiency is unimportant to me because I don't use them. More than satisfied with Wix/Napa Gold efficiency, construction and ROI for my ocis.
However as this unidentified/mystery hearsay "verification" has now been double downed on in thread I'll give my opinion it. Until and unless the unnamed, not 'really so mystery' source comes forward and publishes the information publicly and documents the details the ISO test procedure used with their name signed and company if they also represent one, then I take that verification as nothing more than spurious hearsay. That correct verification would be the way Amsoil did it in their frequently quoted ISO testing of some aftermarket filters.
As a related example also for the XP/NP, there was also an unnamed source, (the very same I'm going to say) that claimed the XP/NP used combo valves in their construction. That bogus information was thoroughly debunked and the XP/NP have only spec'd a dome end bypass. And that's been documented here many times now, including recently. One down.
And a related rumor/tale with the mystery efficiency verification of XP/NP goes, the efficiency tested by the mystery source as the beta reads. But, then the company testing used it's own adbv and/or bypass, rebuilt the XP/NP, and then it tested higher. lol. So they 'supposedly' tested, then dissected, used the media element then rebuilt the spin filter to in an intact condition using a competitor's non Wix parts but same media. Now that's a whopper. Think about the logistics involved with refitting different parts, time and effort needed to reconstruct another company's filter in an attempt to show that companies parts faulty and another superior. Too much of leap of faith for me.
Bottom line, XP/NP may well be as the Wix beta indicates, but until the publishing documentation condition I described are met, the mystery verification remains nothing more spurious hearsay, (same as the false combo valve claim) to me. And, I highly doubt those conditions will ever be met.
..... Yes it was verified by another source exactly matching Wix beta ratio, or 50% @20 microns under ISO 4548-12 ....
First the Wix XP, Napa Plat efficiency is unimportant to me because I don't use them. More than satisfied with Wix/Napa Gold efficiency, construction and ROI for my ocis.
However as this unidentified/mystery hearsay "verification" has now been double downed on in thread I'll give my opinion it. Until and unless the unnamed, not 'really so mystery' source comes forward and publishes the information publicly and documents the details the ISO test procedure used with their name signed and company if they also represent one, then I take that verification as nothing more than spurious hearsay. That correct verification would be the way Amsoil did it in their frequently quoted ISO testing of some aftermarket filters.
As a related example also for the XP/NP, there was also an unnamed source, (the very same I'm going to say) that claimed the XP/NP used combo valves in their construction. That bogus information was thoroughly debunked and the XP/NP have only spec'd a dome end bypass. And that's been documented here many times now, including recently. One down.
And a related rumor/tale with the mystery efficiency verification of XP/NP goes, the efficiency tested by the mystery source as the beta reads. But, then the company testing used it's own adbv and/or bypass, rebuilt the XP/NP, and then it tested higher. lol. So they 'supposedly' tested, then dissected, used the media element then rebuilt the spin filter to in an intact condition using a competitor's non Wix parts but same media. Now that's a whopper. Think about the logistics involved with refitting different parts, time and effort needed to reconstruct another company's filter in an attempt to show that companies parts faulty and another superior. Too much of leap of faith for me.
Bottom line, XP/NP may well be as the Wix beta indicates, but until the publishing documentation condition I described are met, the mystery verification remains nothing more spurious hearsay, (same as the false combo valve claim) to me. And, I highly doubt those conditions will ever be met.
Originally Posted By: Skittles
What a joke. How many miles you get out of your engines using fram ultra filters? It would be the same using the wix xp
If it doesn't make a difference either way for engine wear (no solid proof one way or the other), I'd still rather use a higher efficiency filter than not.
What a joke. How many miles you get out of your engines using fram ultra filters? It would be the same using the wix xp
If it doesn't make a difference either way for engine wear (no solid proof one way or the other), I'd still rather use a higher efficiency filter than not.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
However as to this unidentified/mystery hearsay "verification" has now been double downed on twice in thread I'll give my opinion it. Until and unless the unnamed, not 'really so mystery' source comes forward and publishes the information publicly and documents the details the ISO test procedure used with their name signed and company if they also represent one, then I take that verification as nothing more than spurious hearsay. That verification would be the way Amsoil did it in their frequently quoted ISO testing of some aftermarket filters.
If WIX claims the XP is 50% @ 20 microns I can certainly believe some other lab testing one per ISO 4548-12 also found it to be 50% @ 20 microns. Why would WIX say it's much worse than it is? Just because Ford/Motorcraft under sold their filter efficiency rating doesn't mean WIX does/would also.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
And a related rumor/tale with the mystery efficiency verification of XP/NP goes, the efficiency tested by the mystery source as the beta reads. But, then the company testing used it's own adbv and/or bypass, rebuilt the XP/NP, and then it tested higher. lol. So they 'supposedly' tested, then dissected, used the media element then rebuilt the spin filter to in an intact condition using a competitor's non Wix parts but same media. Now that's a whopper. Think about the logistics, time and effort needed to reconstruct another company's filter in an attempt to show another companies parts faulty. Too much of leap of faith for me.
I really don't think it would be that difficult to take the media assembly out of spin-on and transplant it into some kind of testing apparatus or device to seal the end caps so just the media efficiency could be tested versus the efficient of the whole spin-on assembly. If there is leakage around the ADBV seal it could certainly give a false indication that the media is not very efficient.
However as to this unidentified/mystery hearsay "verification" has now been double downed on twice in thread I'll give my opinion it. Until and unless the unnamed, not 'really so mystery' source comes forward and publishes the information publicly and documents the details the ISO test procedure used with their name signed and company if they also represent one, then I take that verification as nothing more than spurious hearsay. That verification would be the way Amsoil did it in their frequently quoted ISO testing of some aftermarket filters.
If WIX claims the XP is 50% @ 20 microns I can certainly believe some other lab testing one per ISO 4548-12 also found it to be 50% @ 20 microns. Why would WIX say it's much worse than it is? Just because Ford/Motorcraft under sold their filter efficiency rating doesn't mean WIX does/would also.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
And a related rumor/tale with the mystery efficiency verification of XP/NP goes, the efficiency tested by the mystery source as the beta reads. But, then the company testing used it's own adbv and/or bypass, rebuilt the XP/NP, and then it tested higher. lol. So they 'supposedly' tested, then dissected, used the media element then rebuilt the spin filter to in an intact condition using a competitor's non Wix parts but same media. Now that's a whopper. Think about the logistics, time and effort needed to reconstruct another company's filter in an attempt to show another companies parts faulty. Too much of leap of faith for me.
I really don't think it would be that difficult to take the media assembly out of spin-on and transplant it into some kind of testing apparatus or device to seal the end caps so just the media efficiency could be tested versus the efficient of the whole spin-on assembly. If there is leakage around the ADBV seal it could certainly give a false indication that the media is not very efficient.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Guess you missed the talk awhile back when Batman did some secret lab testing on the WIX XP and concluded the low efficiency numbers seemed to be caused by internal leakage.
I must have!
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Yes it was verified by another source exactly matching Wix beta ratio, or 50% @20 microns under ISO 4548-12
And done according to the test? If so, that is remarkable. I don't know why they bother, then. I'm afraid to ask the price of the Wix XP up here. I know one oil change shop could get certain numbers for close to $30 at their cost, for a buddy of mine, and I laughed at him. When the Fram Ultra is on sale, it's a third of that.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But you forgot the rest of the story, where the guts were transplanted to ensure no internal leakage, and the efficiency then shot up into the 90+% @ 20 microns.
So, it's not the simple then.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Just because Ford/Motorcraft under sold their filter efficiency rating doesn't mean WIX does/would also.
On the face of it, that makes sense, since Wix is in the business of selling filters (and efficiency is important), whereas Motorcraft really isn't. But, given how Wix whitewashed their beta ratios on all their filters, that's why I'm a little skeptical. Now, I'm sorry I asked.
Guess you missed the talk awhile back when Batman did some secret lab testing on the WIX XP and concluded the low efficiency numbers seemed to be caused by internal leakage.
I must have!
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Yes it was verified by another source exactly matching Wix beta ratio, or 50% @20 microns under ISO 4548-12
And done according to the test? If so, that is remarkable. I don't know why they bother, then. I'm afraid to ask the price of the Wix XP up here. I know one oil change shop could get certain numbers for close to $30 at their cost, for a buddy of mine, and I laughed at him. When the Fram Ultra is on sale, it's a third of that.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But you forgot the rest of the story, where the guts were transplanted to ensure no internal leakage, and the efficiency then shot up into the 90+% @ 20 microns.
So, it's not the simple then.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Just because Ford/Motorcraft under sold their filter efficiency rating doesn't mean WIX does/would also.
On the face of it, that makes sense, since Wix is in the business of selling filters (and efficiency is important), whereas Motorcraft really isn't. But, given how Wix whitewashed their beta ratios on all their filters, that's why I'm a little skeptical. Now, I'm sorry I asked.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Bottom line, XP/NP may well be as the Wix beta indicates, but until the publishing documentation condition I described are met, the mystery verification remains nothing more spurious hearsay, (same as the false combo valve claim) to me. And, I highly doubt those conditions will ever be met.
So the question is do you believe the efficiency numbers provided by Wix for their XP filter? The tone of your message and one often used by others on this board is that they do not believe the numbers. If so that means both that Wix is incompetent and not able to accurately measure the efficiency of their filter and that all of the other efficiencies they publish, including those of the Napa Gold are also suspect. You can't have it both ways. You can't believe the numbers they publish for the Gold because you like the numbers but then call into question the ones they publish for the XP.
Wix is either correct or incompetent. I think likely they are correct.
Bottom line, XP/NP may well be as the Wix beta indicates, but until the publishing documentation condition I described are met, the mystery verification remains nothing more spurious hearsay, (same as the false combo valve claim) to me. And, I highly doubt those conditions will ever be met.
So the question is do you believe the efficiency numbers provided by Wix for their XP filter? The tone of your message and one often used by others on this board is that they do not believe the numbers. If so that means both that Wix is incompetent and not able to accurately measure the efficiency of their filter and that all of the other efficiencies they publish, including those of the Napa Gold are also suspect. You can't have it both ways. You can't believe the numbers they publish for the Gold because you like the numbers but then call into question the ones they publish for the XP.
Wix is either correct or incompetent. I think likely they are correct.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Bottom line, XP/NP may well be as the Wix beta indicates, but until the publishing documentation condition I described are met, the mystery verification remains nothing more spurious hearsay, (same as the false combo valve claim) to me. And, I highly doubt those conditions will ever be met.
So the question is do you believe the efficiency numbers provided by Wix for their XP filter?....
As I said at the top of my post, not quoted and no idication of more to the quote (...) as I don't use them not important to me.
What is important to me and the point of the post also not quoted is that unsourced "verification" is not documented and published. And reminds me of the bogus information posted also from a similar mystery source about the XP/NP using combo valves. That was the point.
So what I personally believe about the XP/NP efficiency numbers was irrelevant to the point about the authoritativeness, veracity and authenticity of the mystery "verification" posted in the thread.
Left out your editorial comments from the quote as they were unrelated to the mystery verification, and point of the post.
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Bottom line, XP/NP may well be as the Wix beta indicates, but until the publishing documentation condition I described are met, the mystery verification remains nothing more spurious hearsay, (same as the false combo valve claim) to me. And, I highly doubt those conditions will ever be met.
So the question is do you believe the efficiency numbers provided by Wix for their XP filter?....
As I said at the top of my post, not quoted and no idication of more to the quote (...) as I don't use them not important to me.
What is important to me and the point of the post also not quoted is that unsourced "verification" is not documented and published. And reminds me of the bogus information posted also from a similar mystery source about the XP/NP using combo valves. That was the point.
So what I personally believe about the XP/NP efficiency numbers was irrelevant to the point about the authoritativeness, veracity and authenticity of the mystery "verification" posted in the thread.
Left out your editorial comments from the quote as they were unrelated to the mystery verification, and point of the post.
The "mystery verification data" matches the official advertised WIX data (50% @ 20 microns). It's not really a big surprise that the "mystery test lab" did not find the XP to be better than WIX says it is.
I think the surprising part is the testing they (supposedly) did afterwards (media/end cap assy test only) that made the efficiency supposedly increase significantly. That's all we know, so people can take it or leave it, and decide for themselves. Personally, I believe the XP efficiency is what WIX says it is, and that a full synthetic should have the capability of filtering much better than what WIX says it does.
I think the surprising part is the testing they (supposedly) did afterwards (media/end cap assy test only) that made the efficiency supposedly increase significantly. That's all we know, so people can take it or leave it, and decide for themselves. Personally, I believe the XP efficiency is what WIX says it is, and that a full synthetic should have the capability of filtering much better than what WIX says it does.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
You can't believe the numbers they publish for the Gold because you like the numbers but then call into question the ones they publish for the XP.
I don't believe either set of numbers. The regular Wix numbers used to have some variation depending upon application. Now, every application has exactly the same rating. So, yes, I'm skeptical.
You can't believe the numbers they publish for the Gold because you like the numbers but then call into question the ones they publish for the XP.
I don't believe either set of numbers. The regular Wix numbers used to have some variation depending upon application. Now, every application has exactly the same rating. So, yes, I'm skeptical.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
.... the ones they publish for the XP.
Wix is either correct or incompetent. I think likely they are correct.
Begs the question: Why does Wix put up with this? Fram's website and product lit is very clear on 4548-12 results, and Fram's is always better in their TG and Ultra lines than any Wix oil filter. Catch up Wix! Don't pretend consumers don't know. We are pretty smart. Smarter than most chimps anyway.
.... the ones they publish for the XP.
Wix is either correct or incompetent. I think likely they are correct.
Begs the question: Why does Wix put up with this? Fram's website and product lit is very clear on 4548-12 results, and Fram's is always better in their TG and Ultra lines than any Wix oil filter. Catch up Wix! Don't pretend consumers don't know. We are pretty smart. Smarter than most chimps anyway.
Yes to quote my personal mystery source the Wix XP "barely makes 50% efficiency"
And it's not that much of a leap of faith to believe an engineer would simply place the internal cartridge in another can with a different adbv, and spring. They probably have a machine that does this or else they can do it on the assembly line itself.
Also microglass is a very efficient media, just look at the efficiency of all the other synthetics and you can see something is wrong with the XP/NP.
Also I've admitted my mistake on the combo valve, it's not really a big deal and completely different than this situation.
And it's not that much of a leap of faith to believe an engineer would simply place the internal cartridge in another can with a different adbv, and spring. They probably have a machine that does this or else they can do it on the assembly line itself.
Also microglass is a very efficient media, just look at the efficiency of all the other synthetics and you can see something is wrong with the XP/NP.
Also I've admitted my mistake on the combo valve, it's not really a big deal and completely different than this situation.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Prepare for immediate thread derailment over Wix XP efficiency.
Fixed it for myself!
Prepare for immediate thread derailment over Wix XP efficiency.
Fixed it for myself!
Also I have nothing against Wix, I have a regular Wix filter in my personal stash and have used their fuel, air, transmission filters in the past.
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