So I converted a car to E85 today

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Hi,
I went ahead and converted a car to E85 today.

Here it is, please excuse the dirty engine:
VJgeFaS.jpg


That's it, bye.















Just kidding. If more cars only came from the factory with the freedom to put whatever the [censored] I want into the tank built in...

So let's get going, shall we? Usually the conversion a pretty straight forward job, because the newer piggyback boxes come with a harness that just clips between the injector and the connector. I wanted to build a harness like that, but the injectors on this car have the notch on the plug offset, and standard Bosch EV1 plugs don't fit. [censored] Hitachi MPI.

Instead I cut the negative lines from the injectors downstream and added the EV1 plugs there:
b0UcLcX.jpg


It would've been better to use a 5-pin AMP SuperSeal connector like some cars do stock for all injectors and +12V. If you have them.

The box has automatic cold starting, so there's a temperature sensor which I put on a coolant hose:
739u5eg.jpg


Other than that, it's just +12V, ground on the chassis and a connection from the lambda probe for automatic fuel adaptation. And here's the ECU in all it's glory, hidden inside the relay compartment:
bKhYPlg.jpg


Yes, the crimp connector on the ground strap will be added later.

I've had this box in three different cars over the last five years or so. After about 70k miles traveled with it, the numbers of problems related to E85 are zero.

What does it do?

  • 10-15% more miles to the dollar in my area
  • Noticeable more bottom end torque.
  • Less CO2 emissions (I had one tested, it's an order of magnitude less)
  • Acts as an injection system cleaner and keeps the everything sparkling
  • The engine runs on [censored] flowers, goddammit. How cool is that?


By the way, the manufacturer of this car says "This model is excluded from E10 compatibility even after 2001". I did 45k miles on one just like this (which I still have in storage. yes, it's cleaner than this one) with E85 without a single problem, with the engine and fuel system still being in perfect condition. Whazzup with that?
 
Perhaps, but I would look at it from the point of view that now any gas can be used in the vehicle. Whereas, prior to the mod, the mfg stated the engine was not compatible for E10
 
Johnny... Did you do anything with the injectors, themselves?

I know nothing about this except to say that, I think, Trav's mentioned he's seen countless issues with the injectors themselves getting messed up because of the E10. (may have totally misread his comments).

But if that IS the case, would your mod eliminate the need mess with the injectors themselves?
 
Very interesting. I'd be more concerned with materials compatibility myself. It is very impressive how much more power can be tuned out of engines running e85 vs rug if set up right. The new 4.3L v6 comes to mind from gm..
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Very interesting. I'd be more concerned with materials compatibility myself. It is very impressive how much more power can be tuned out of engines running e85 vs rug if set up right. The new 4.3L v6 comes to mind from gm..


They have been using e85 this with subarus for awhile.

Its crazy how much you can tune up the older(pre-2014) turbo models with e85.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Finz
Perhaps, but I would look at it from the point of view that now any gas can be used in the vehicle. Whereas, prior to the mod, the mfg stated the engine was not compatible for E10


I'm pretty certain that to revert to regular gasoline means a complete removal of the harness and wiring stuff, hardly convenient. But an amazingly simple conversion.

My good friend who is a retired pilot tried to convert one of his old cars to E85 and his stock injectors did not flow enough. I'd be very concerned with running the OP's notably cool old Fiat motor too lean...
 
Yeah, the engine runs cleaner on ethanol. But making the ethanol destroys and pollutes the environment. Making corn more expensive causes more starvation worldwide and higher food prices in the US. Meanwhile, oil is so cheap and abundant, people are leaving it in the ground until the price goes up.
 
My folks converted our 2005 MDX to E-85 many years ago. They ran it like that for a few months. It didn't run all that well with E-85, and in fact ran worse on gasoline, and they subsequently had the kit removed. With a few months of that, the check engine light came on, and it was a catalytic converter problem. Acura replaced it under warranty, but given the timing, I'm sure it was at least related to the E-85 kit.

I'd proceed with caution.
 
X2 on whether or not the factory injectors have enough overhead to flow enough E85 at WOT. If they do, great!

Turbo cars can make large amounts of power on E85 since the octane rating is 100 to 105 octane. That's almost race gas territory for a lot cheaper.
 
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Yeah, the engine runs cleaner on ethanol. But making the ethanol destroys and pollutes the environment. Making corn more expensive causes more starvation worldwide and higher food prices in the US. Meanwhile, oil is so cheap and abundant, people are leaving it in the ground until the price goes up.


Can't we talk performance cars without politics?

Real car guys know this is the best thing since the invention of the bikini.
 
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Looks like it is designed for European cars. Nearly $400. You have to burn a lot of E85 just to break even.


Not European cars, but cars with up to four injection channels. It would work on a V8 with one, two or four injection channels.

Also you cannot use the automatic fuel adaption when installing two of these particular boxes on a V8 (which would be close to the price you've posted). But another company called Etanoldax makes one that works the same with six or eight channels for under $200.

The one in the picture only comes in four channel and single channel flavors, the latter being
Originally Posted By: Finz
Johnny... Did you do anything with the injectors, themselves?

I know nothing about this except to say that, I think, Trav's mentioned he's seen countless issues with the injectors themselves getting messed up because of the E10. (may have totally misread his comments).

But if that IS the case, would your mod eliminate the need mess with the injectors themselves?


The engine is completely stock, with just the box wired up.

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Finz
Perhaps, but I would look at it from the point of view that now any gas can be used in the vehicle. Whereas, prior to the mod, the mfg stated the engine was not compatible for E10


I'm pretty certain that to revert to regular gasoline means a complete removal of the harness and wiring stuff, hardly convenient. But an amazingly simple conversion.

My good friend who is a retired pilot tried to convert one of his old cars to E85 and his stock injectors did not flow enough. I'd be very concerned with running the OP's notably cool old Fiat motor too lean...

It runs anything from E0 to E85 and adjusts itself automatically via the oxygen sensor. If you put gasoline in the tank the car runs like stock.

I've hooked up a computer to the car's ECU and it does not run lean on E85.

There is also no need for bigger injectors with a box like this, even at WOT (where you have a whole lot gasoline wasted for cooling, which is not needed on E85). However, on this style of box you can hook up an LED that flashes when the injectors max out.

Originally Posted By: Koz1
Whats your fuel mileage Pre and Post E85?

Less CO2 emissions. What is the difference.
Thanks.

Fuel mileage was around 20% less on all cars I've converted, but Brazilians came up with a way to increase the mileage further and add more power with a second box, which I'm currently looking into.

E85 costs 40% less, however.

The difference in CO emissions was a decimal point. Before it was 0.02 vol%, afterwards >0.001 vol%.

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
My folks converted our 2005 MDX to E-85 many years ago. They ran it like that for a few months. It didn't run all that well with E-85, and in fact ran worse on gasoline, and they subsequently had the kit removed. With a few months of that, the check engine light came on, and it was a catalytic converter problem. Acura replaced it under warranty, but given the timing, I'm sure it was at least related to the E-85 kit.

I'd proceed with caution.


The kits sold in the US are made in China and not that great, especially the older ones with the fuel selector button.

The Swedish boxes cost about the same as the Chinese ones but are state-of-the-art and work very, very well for lots of people. The only other quality product I'm aware of is made by Tury in Brazil, but I couldn't find a shop that ships abroad.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Finz
Perhaps, but I would look at it from the point of view that now any gas can be used in the vehicle. Whereas, prior to the mod, the mfg stated the engine was not compatible for E10


I'm pretty certain that to revert to regular gasoline means a complete removal of the harness and wiring stuff, hardly convenient. But an amazingly simple conversion.

My good friend who is a retired pilot tried to convert one of his old cars to E85 and his stock injectors did not flow enough. I'd be very concerned with running the OP's notably cool old Fiat motor too lean...


Exactly.

The guys at the track have huge fuel pumps,fuel lines and either bigger injectors or a re-jet to prevent a lean condition
I've watched guys use just e-85 at the track in their tuner 4cylinder engines and boom. Melted Pistons.
It's a cool conversion however it definitely requires tuning and fuel delivery mods.
Maybe not on this particular car,but everyone I've seen in real life
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Finz
Perhaps, but I would look at it from the point of view that now any gas can be used in the vehicle. Whereas, prior to the mod, the mfg stated the engine was not compatible for E10


I'm pretty certain that to revert to regular gasoline means a complete removal of the harness and wiring stuff, hardly convenient. But an amazingly simple conversion.

My good friend who is a retired pilot tried to convert one of his old cars to E85 and his stock injectors did not flow enough. I'd be very concerned with running the OP's notably cool old Fiat motor too lean...


Exactly.

The guys at the track have huge fuel pumps,fuel lines and either bigger injectors or a re-jet to prevent a lean condition
I've watched guys use just e-85 at the track in their tuner 4cylinder engines and boom. Melted Pistons.
It's a cool conversion however it definitely requires tuning and fuel delivery mods.
Maybe not on this particular car,but everyone I've seen in real life


Not true. Everything has margin built in. You won't have much left afterwards though. People add cams, superchargers other power adders all the time without changing the fuel pump and lines. If you're needing more flow from the injectors, a simple boost in fuel pressure can suffice. How stupid would it be for designers to spec injectors, fuel pumps and lines that are maxed out at wot.

Lots of cars at the track go boom. Talk about a huge chip on your shoulder because of politics.

I just can't bring myself to believe you or Steve have been around any hotrods within the last 50 years.
 
My best efficiency engineer, well used to be, was messing with E85.

He had a separate tank with E85, big pump separate fuel supply and big injectors.

Two plane (for want of a better word) ECU that kicked the engine over to the E85 system and dropped the petrol at around 20psi on his Mitsubishi, and carried him all the way into boost/tyre pressure crossover (35psi ultimately)
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette

Lots of cars at the track go boom. Talk about a huge chip on your shoulder because of politics.

I just can't bring myself to believe you or Steve have been around any hotrods within the last 50 years.


Haven't you figured out yet that your personal opinions are irrelevant yet? Who cares what you think? Certainly not myself or Clevy, we can speak for ourselves.

I am not a bolt on guy, I learned the hard way to build the motor first, then mod. The reason? It costs more to do "shade tree" mods like this when thinks take a dump on you. But yet folks like yourself think a jerry rigged booster pump and rip off a converter and you're all ready to go.

Keep talking, a lot of us are very entertained by your inflammatory comments. But remember, your criticism means little here as there is zero credibility involved...
 
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Yeah, the engine runs cleaner on ethanol. But making the ethanol destroys and pollutes the environment. Making corn more expensive causes more starvation worldwide and higher food prices in the US. Meanwhile, oil is so cheap and abundant, people are leaving it in the ground until the price goes up.


What was the price of corn 20 years ago and what is the market price of corn today? Hint.. almost the same. All you have to do is a quick search on commodity prices on the commodity exchange. Sure, there have been spikes up and down here and there over the years, but corn has remained relatively consistent and low in price. Which means there is plenty of corn to go around. Especially when one factors in that the dollar has lost about 30% of its value over the same 20 years. That makes corn actually cheaper today, relative to the mid 90's.

Corn price June 1995 settled at $2.80 a bushel

Corn price June 2015, on Friday's market close, $3.55 a bushel at the grain elevator near me. But that includes their small mark up and the corn checkoff fee per bushel. When we factor those out, Corn is pretty close to 1995 price.

No, using corn to make ethanol does not cause more starvation. There is plenty of corn to go around. The only problem with people starving is governments not allowing their people access to food. More food rots in storage and on docks because it is not allowed to be distributed to people who need it. Or, those governments impose such punishing tariffs on food that is imported that the average folks can't afford it. At least put the blame where it deserves to be.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


I am not a bolt on guy, I learned the hard way to build the motor
there is zero credibility involved...


How many times have I asked you and clevy to post Picts of your hotrods? And nothing. Credibility? Ha.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Finz
Perhaps, but I would look at it from the point of view that now any gas can be used in the vehicle. Whereas, prior to the mod, the mfg stated the engine was not compatible for E10


I'm pretty certain that to revert to regular gasoline means a complete removal of the harness and wiring stuff, hardly convenient. But an amazingly simple conversion.

My good friend who is a retired pilot tried to convert one of his old cars to E85 and his stock injectors did not flow enough. I'd be very concerned with running the OP's notably cool old Fiat motor too lean...


Exactly.

The guys at the track have huge fuel pumps,fuel lines and either bigger injectors or a re-jet to prevent a lean condition
I've watched guys use just e-85 at the track in their tuner 4cylinder engines and boom. Melted Pistons.
It's a cool conversion however it definitely requires tuning and fuel delivery mods.
Maybe not on this particular car,but everyone I've seen in real life


Not true. Everything has margin built in. You won't have much left afterwards though. People add cams, superchargers other power adders all the time without changing the fuel pump and lines. If you're needing more flow from the injectors, a simple boost in fuel pressure can suffice. How stupid would it be for designers to spec injectors, fuel pumps and lines that are maxed out at wot.

Lots of cars at the track go boom. Talk about a huge chip on your shoulder because of politics.

I just can't bring myself to believe you or Steve have been around any hotrods within the last 50 years.


Are you really that clueless.

Having been shopping for a supercharger recently I can say for certain that every single kit has bigger injectors and a boost-a-pump included to compensate for the extra fuel required,so "turning up fuel pressure" is absolute nonsense. Exactly how do you do that anyway. It's not like there's a valve to adjust fuel pressure.
You are a hack. I wouldn't allow you anywhere near a car I wanted to keep. Your nonsense posts are laughable,inaccurate and for the most part made up.
You should be a writer. Fiction of course.
And exactly what politics is clouding my vision. Where have I ever said I don't like e-85. I think it should stand alone instead of being a mandate in fuel but thTs it.
So again your nonsense,absurd beliefs has you spouting off again.
I think your a little kid. No way an adult is behind that keyboard.
I've forgotten more about tuning than you'll ever know.
 
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