ADM and the ethanol mandate

[A_Harman]

The latest in the continuing soap opera of the ethanol mandate.
It's surprising that ADM is not that dependent on ethanol for its profitability.

http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20150603/BLOGS10/150609939

 

[SOHCman]

Alcohol belongs in my shot glass, not my fuel tank.

 

[hansj3]

I don't feel bad at all. Farmers have known that corn prices have been propped up for a while. And its not like ethanol is new anymore. Everyone knows that e10 will get less fuel economy, and will damage older motors. E85 is terrible.
Its not like they designed an alcohol engine, that would have been fine. The high cr an alcohol engine needs would make decent power, and ok fuel eco but no they took a standard engine, slapped in some code, and said "eh... that will do pig..."

Maybe they should have grown soy or some other biodiesel crop. At least the power density of the fuel is almost a wash, and they could use it in most of their own equipment

 

[HerrStig]

There's nothing like the gubbermint making consumers buy things, for "our" own good. Like health plans.

 

[panther427]

I'm torn on this issue. I agree that e10 does hurt fuel economy and for most consumers straight gasoline would be best. But on the other hand I enjoy cheap race fuel. 2 Dollars a gallon vs. 7 Dollars a gallon for 100 octane

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: panther427
But on the other hand I enjoy cheap race fuel. 2 Dollars a gallon vs. 7 Dollars a gallon for 100 octane


People who are against this are not true enthusiasts. The e85 is absolutely race fuel for free. I'd re-jet my old cars if I could get it. E100 would be the best scenario.

The E10 has been around for 30 years and has not hurt a thing.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The E10 has been around for 30 years and has not hurt a thing.


Except our wallets.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Not hurt a thing? I know a lot of boaters and outdoor enthusiasts who would disagree.

I would agree that almost any later model car runs fine on the junk.

I would also say that anyone who wants 100% has not really thought about it. You need a bigger tank for poor fuel economy. Most older cars will need additional fuel delivery like bigger lines and pumps. Carb jets need to be HUGE. Ever see an Alky car at the strip? Fuel lines as big as a garden hose and pumps that are HUGE!

Then there's all those pesky byproducts from burning alcohol in an IC engine. Most end in 'zene'. Not good stuff.

Just because the costs are hidden from sight doesn't indicate benefit.

When cars are built to utilize it properly it could be great, but a band aid it ain't...

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
The E10 has been around for 30 years and has not hurt a thing.


Except our wallets.
+1 Especially if the agrabusiness lobby gets their wish and we go to 15%, which MY manual tells me is NOT acceptable for my vehicle. NOT acceptable.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Ever see an Alky car at the strip? Fuel lines as big as a garden hose and pumps that are HUGE!


I bet I've spent more time at the strip that you have. You're talking about a full blown race car and trying to compare that to a street car. Lines have plenty of capacity and do not need to be bigger. I can replace the jets in my QJ in 20 minutes and its easy to get the additional metering area. Secondary rods take under a minute.

You really don't sound like an enthusiast to me. Why does a hot rodder care about the range of his vehicle? But an old man constantly whining about the government. Yea.

 

[SOHCman]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Ever see an Alky car at the strip? Fuel lines as big as a garden hose and pumps that are HUGE!


I bet I've spent more time at the strip that you have. You're talking about a full blown race car and trying to compare that to a street car. Lines have plenty of capacity and do not need to be bigger. I can replace the jets in my QJ in 20 minutes and its easy to get the additional metering area. Secondary rods take under a minute.

You really don't sound like an enthusiast to me. Why does a hot rodder care about the range of his vehicle? But an old man constantly whining about the government. Yea.








RIght, shove a mandate down the entire populations throat, and tip the food and automotive industries onto their head so the .05% of the population that are enthusiasts can have cheap race gas... then lie and say it's for the environment for good measure.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette

The E10 has been around for 30 years and has not hurt a thing.


http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2011/03/21/ethanol%E2%80%99s-impacts-on-our-water-resources/

Quote:
The Baker Institute estimates that producing the corn to meet the ethanol mandate for 2015 will require 2.9 trillion gallons of water.
Most of this irrigation water is drawn from groundwater aquifers in a region that is already water stressed. Conflicts over water allotments have occurred in Kansas and Nebraska, and the Ogallala Aquifer, which lies under the Great Plains and supplies 30% of the nation’s groundwater for irrigation, is in danger of running dry.

Growing corn also requires a great deal of fertilizer, and extensive use of nitrogen fertilizer and pesticides is having severe impacts on water quality now. Fertilizer laden runoff into streams in the Midwest makes its way to the Mississippi River, and eventually contributes to the eutrophication (when algae bloom, then die, depleting the area of oxygen and suffocating plants and animals) in the Gulf of Mexico. In 2010, this dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico was estimated to be almost 8000 square miles and it continues to grow. 2.39 million additional tons of nitrogen fertilizer will be needed to meet the 2015 mandate.


Mandates, subsidies and tax breaks mean that the market understands it's not a rational process.

 

[turtlevette]

Mandate? It's part of an overall energy policy and strategy we need for the future. Fracking does damage, drilling does damage, the algae bloom is nothing compared to all the oil spills in the gulf. As tiredtrucker has said many times, the byproducts are still used for feed. We'd be doing this either way.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Ever see an Alky car at the strip? Fuel lines as big as a garden hose and pumps that are HUGE!


I bet I've spent more time at the strip that you have. You're talking about a full blown race car and trying to compare that to a street car. Lines have plenty of capacity and do not need to be bigger. I can replace the jets in my QJ in 20 minutes and its easy to get the additional metering area. Secondary rods take under a minute.

You really don't sound like an enthusiast to me. Why does a hot rodder care about the range of his vehicle? But an old man constantly whining about the government. Yea.


I love folks who imagine they are smart. Look, here's one now.

Ha. I grew up at the strip, dingbat.

Imagining you're the smartest man in the room does NOT make it so. I was jetting Holleys while you were just a wet dream in your daddy's eye!

Keep talkin', it's great entertainment...

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Mandate? It's part of an overall energy policy and strategy we need for the future. Fracking does damage, drilling does damage, the algae bloom is nothing compared to all the oil spills in the gulf. As tiredtrucker has said many times, the byproducts are still used for feed. We'd be doing this either way.



The Federal Government has just released a report which says that fracking does NO damage to drinking water.

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Not hurt a thing? I know a lot of boaters and outdoor enthusiasts who would disagree.

I would agree that almost any later model car runs fine on the junk.

I would also say that anyone who wants 100% has not really thought about it. You need a bigger tank for poor fuel economy. Most older cars will need additional fuel delivery like bigger lines and pumps. Carb jets need to be HUGE. Ever see an Alky car at the strip? Fuel lines as big as a garden hose and pumps that are HUGE!

Then there's all those pesky byproducts from burning alcohol in an IC engine. Most end in 'zene'. Not good stuff.

Just because the costs are hidden from sight doesn't indicate benefit.

When cars are built to utilize it properly it could be great, but a band aid it ain't...
+1 Nobody talks about the amount of water and fuel it takes to cultivate the corn.

 

[SOHCman]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Not hurt a thing? I know a lot of boaters and outdoor enthusiasts who would disagree.

I would agree that almost any later model car runs fine on the junk.

I would also say that anyone who wants 100% has not really thought about it. You need a bigger tank for poor fuel economy. Most older cars will need additional fuel delivery like bigger lines and pumps. Carb jets need to be HUGE. Ever see an Alky car at the strip? Fuel lines as big as a garden hose and pumps that are HUGE!

Then there's all those pesky byproducts from burning alcohol in an IC engine. Most end in 'zene'. Not good stuff.

Just because the costs are hidden from sight doesn't indicate benefit.

When cars are built to utilize it properly it could be great, but a band aid it ain't...
+1 Nobody talks about the amount of water and fuel it takes to cultivate the corn.


+1, OR the Fuel/Diesel and the facilities "carbon footprint" it takes to produce and distribute the stuff, and then the byproducts. SO much goes in, and so little comes out.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
[ I was jetting Holleys

Keep talkin', it's great entertainment...


Holleys are easy, try a quadrajet. I've seen a few years of your posts, and I don't have to imagine that I'm smarter than you. But, maybe you have more money or are better looking....

Somehow, I seriously doubt that too.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
[ I was jetting Holleys

Keep talkin', it's great entertainment...

Holleys are easy, try a quadrajet. I've seen a few years of your posts, and I don't have to imagine that I'm smarter than you. But, maybe you have more money or are better looking....

Somehow, I seriously doubt that too.


I love how this is the only thing you respond to in this thread.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^yep, he follows his tribe. They all imagine they are simply smarter than us normal folks.

And, if you really believe it, then it's true...