What does Liqui-Moly CERATEC do?

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Tribology is interesting science. Never get what you expected
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Tribology Letters July 2012, Volume 47, Issue 1, pp 91-102
Date: 08 May 2012
Tribological Effects of BN and MoS2 Nanoparticles Added to Polyalphaolefin Oil in Piston Skirt/Cylinder Liner Tests

Nicholaos G. Demas, Elena V. Timofeeva, Jules L. Routbort, George R. Fenske


Abstract

We report in this article the friction and wear results of polyalphaolefin (PAO 10) base oil with the addition of 3 wt% boron nitride (BN) and molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) nanoparticles with nominal size of 70 and 50 nm, respectively. The formulations were tested using cast iron cylinder liner segments reciprocating against aluminum alloy piston skirt segments at 20, 40, and 100 °C. The results showed that, at a load of 250 N and a reciprocating frequency of 2 Hz, BN did not lower friction whereas MoS2 nanoparticles were very effective at reducing both friction and wear, compared with the base oil. The viscosities of both formulations were similar to the base oil, which allowed for a direct comparison between them. Raman spectroscopy showed the formation of an aligned MoS2 layer on the cast iron liner surface, which most likely functions as a tribofilm. In the case of the cast iron liner tested with BN nanolubricant, no traces of BN were found. The effect of surfactants was also studied, and it was found that some surfactants were not only beneficial in dispersing the nanoparticles in oil, but also in producing some reduction in friction and wear, even when used as stand-alone additives in PAO 10.

So NB - sucks, MOS2 - cool
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It seems, a major reason why no wide implementation of this solid/nano things. A. solid thing, who knows .... B. result vary - up to negative, due to diff. measure technique, tested substance, environments factors. e.t.c.

Know some person who mix all this thing by itself, ordering it over private lab and fill in own 10y.o. MB. "you fill a difference-it works" like that....

Did use LM flush 10 min one, replace oil to Pennzoil yellow, and car feels less responsive, dive 2 weeks, then give up, tossed can mos2 - better now. my coworker fill indifference after can mos2. (after flush use, the oil get dark after 1.5K km, dumped, then 0W40 M1, same 1.5K - very clean. seem many noticed flush working after usage in some degree)
 
In DrAdmin's last tech paper above, Boron did OK, see below:
9U7YQNG.jpg

Although in that test, PAO+Moly did better.
Ceratec has some form of moly in it with the hexagonal Boron though, so maybe better?
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
can somebody explain the graph? do I understand that PAO10 alone is the best?


Other way 'round. PAO10 alone was the worst, with the addition of MoS2 it was the best (least wear)
 
Thanks for the follow up Nenad16 and keep us posted.

Originally Posted By: Nenad16
Originally Posted By: SR1919
Also any follow up experiences to share about Ceratec? i am thinking of the post from Nenad16 and other users.

If you have had negative and/or neutral experiences please also share.


Goog thing I caught this thread. Here is my update.
I am at 3000 miles into the OCI/CERATEC treatment. The average MPG has improved somewhat(20MPG), but it is still lower than previously with Lubegard(22MPG). The throttle response seems to have returned to the level as with Lubegard, but thats kind of hard to gauge at this point. As for the engine temps, they seem to be slightly lower than initially, but they are still higher than before when I used Lubegard. Also, the look of oil has changed from creamy, opaque(due to CERATEC) to nearly normal/clear, probably because CERATEC has been depleted from oil and has been applied to metal surfaces.
I will stick with my usual OCI of 5K miles, and will update you guys at that time.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
can somebody explain the graph? do I understand that PAO10 alone is the best?


The "original" line, the black dots, was the new peaks in the metal. You're looking at a cross-section of the machining marks. So any other line closer to the "original" metal peaks is better, less wear-down. Notice the blue dots were PAO alone, and the peaks got worn down about all the way.

What it shows is the moly and/or boron filled the valleys, preventing wear of the peaks.
 
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I had plans on using Ceratec in my new 5.7L but after exchanging a few emails with Liqui Moly supposed Techs.... I really am thinking twice...

You never get the same answer from any of them...This is a reply I just got back last night after asking for the exact CORRECT application procedure for Ceratec. Here is a different answer I received from the first time I asked it... I did this on purpose just to see if I would receive 2 totally different application advice...

Dear Lonnie,

LIQUI MOLY CERA TEC should be added into the fresh engine oil directly after the oil change with a ideal dosage of approx. 7% volume. So for 7qts / = 6,6 liters ) the right volume of Cera Tec is 460 ml.

Please add the Cera Tec after every oil change in the right dosage to get the maximum benefit and performance.

Best regards

If this product supposedly lasts for 20K-30K miles? Why in gods name would you have to add it EVERY oil change... This would end up being some Very Expensive Oil Changes... No thanks Not doing this...

I have another question I have plans on asking them--->I know the so called ceramic coating only lasts for a period of time... What happens to it then? After it has broke loose from the metal inside the engine..Is it large enough for the oil filter to trap? Or does it float around and flow with the oil throughout the engine? Since it is to small for the filter to trap before it actually finds a spot to coat and protect... What has changed after it has wore off and is floating in the oil? Where does all this wore off ceramic particles land? Just simple questions...
 
some cars do have 20-30k OCI's... mine typically runs 22k before the ecu tells me to change the oil.

big enough particles will get trapped in the oil filter, or ground up by the oil pump. small particles will eventually get reapplied.
 
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
285south:

I've broke-in 5 - 6 new vehicles and have had excellent results in doing the following with MoS2 and Cera Tec:

1. Early LOF changes at 500, 1,500, 3,000, 6,000, 10,000, 15,000, 20,000 miles.

2. No MoS2 until 10,000 to allow rings to fully seat.

3. No Cera Tec until 15,000 to ensure engine is fully broke-in.

4. Early FF changes in the transmission and/or differentials at 5,000 with synthetic fluids.

MoS2 has given a 2 mpg gain in most vehicles, while Cera Tec has not (I believe it forms a hard bearier as Clevy has said).


This


Originally Posted By: DrAdmin
noticed the same effect, clear oil after 1K miles.

BTW, I may do repeat this information or someone did :

so, ceratec marketing as ceramic additives in fact nothing to do with ceramic particles, but, yes, it solid lubricants.
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/LiquiMoly_Cera_Tec_Specificartions.pdf

Micro ceramic solid lubricant suspension based on hexagonal boron nitride (BN) in mineral oil. The laminar graphite - similar structure reduces friction and wear and prevents direct metal-to-metal contact. The < 0.5m particle size guarantees optimal filter flow properties and protects against depositing of solid lubricant particles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boron_nitride
The hexagonal form corresponding to graphite is the most stable and softest among BN polymorphs, and is therefore used as a lubricant and an additive to cosmetic products.

From the same article where "ceramic" word appears on marketing waves:

The cubic (sphalerite structure) variety analogous to diamond is called c-BN. Its hardness is inferior only to diamond, but its thermal and chemical stability is superior. The rare wurtzite BN modification is similar to lonsdaleite and may even be harder than the cubic form.

so LM moly or LM ceratec, technically the same kind of solid lubricants, molybdenum, or boron

The coefficient of friction for mos around 0.2-0.16 and NB 0.22-0.25, technically the same, a difference: NB is much more stable in high temperature.

due to both maerial working on the same principle, I'm doubt ceratec has 50K post effect.

some studies back 99; Wear, Volume 232, Issue 2, October 1999, Pages 199–206 Boron nitride as a lubricant additive; Yoshitsugu Kimuraa, , Toshiaki Wakabayashia, Kazumi Okadab, Tetsuya Wadac, Hiroshi Nishikawad

Hexagonal boron nitride (BN) has a graphite-like lamellar structure, but has been considered less effective than other solid lubricants except for high-temperature applications. The present paper describes a series of sliding experiments which show somewhat curious behavior of BN when added to lubricating oil, and discusses their results by comparing with the results of observation and analysis of sliding surfaces. In the case of sliding of bearing steel vs. itself, BN slightly increased the coefficient of friction, but dramatically decreased wear. Boron was found to remain on the surfaces, but the remnant was almost oxidized; it was some sort of oxide but not stoichiometric. If bearing steel was slid against cast iron, BN decreased the coefficient of friction, but the decrease in wear was less marked, and the remnant in this case was mostly BN. These results show that BN is effective in reducing wear if used as a lubricant additive.

bottom line; save engine - nb ; save gasoline -mos2



Well isn't that interesting.

Thanks for posting.

It uses big words to say what I've been saying for quite some time.

But additives are snake oil.

Apparently.....

Sarcasm implied
 
I deleted the first reply months ago as I was researching these 2 products...

In not exactly his words but the tech told me the Ceratec lasts around 50K KM.... which is 30K miles I think... After the first treatment of Ceratec use every 30K miles... after the first treatment is drained I could use the M02S... But Ceratec was their best product. So basically do a treatment of Ceratec every 30K miles!

I never once said my OCI was or is 20K-30K miles... I have no idea where that come from... I stated in both e-mails my OCI was going to be 6K-8K miles...I would NEVER even think of going 20K miles...

I am still going to use the products... I already have the MO2S in the Audi and Edge. I am fixing to do summer oil changes in the F150 and Ram... The Ceratec will only be going in the Ram...
 
So If I am reading their advice right.

One tech is telling me to add Ceratec every OCI... Which I specifically told him in my e-mail that my OCI was 6K-8K miles.

One tech is telling me Ceratec lasts for at least 50k km or 30k miles and to add it every 30K miles... This tech was also told my OCI would be 6k-8K miles-->This has never changed over the past 20 some years...

I can not imagine an owner going 20K-30K miles on one OCI...Especially after reading many UOA of many top synthetic oils after 10K-15K miles and very little TBN left...

I will stick with the advice I was given from Clevy and 147grain
 
I think the info that often overlooked is Ceratec is meant for new engine, and MoS2 is for older engine. So if the treatment starts when the engine is already worn, regular MoS2 may give better result and cheaper.
 
Originally Posted By: -SyN-
So If I am reading their advice right.

One tech is telling me to add Ceratec every OCI... Which I specifically told him in my e-mail that my OCI was 6K-8K miles.

One tech is telling me Ceratec lasts for at least 50k km or 30k miles and to add it every 30K miles... This tech was also told my OCI would be 6k-8K miles-->This has never changed over the past 20 some years...

I can not imagine an owner going 20K-30K miles on one OCI...Especially after reading many UOA of many top synthetic oils after 10K-15K miles and very little TBN left...

I will stick with the advice I was given from Clevy and 147grain


Yea emailing them had me scratching my head. Two different techs two different suggestions. I sh-canned the idea. I'd go with the info from Clevy and 147.
 
I just want to report my observation and experience with Cera-Tec with my M3.

I changed the oil in my M3, and added two cans of Cera-Tec. The digital oil gauge gave me a sharp decrease in oil level reading after 300 miles or so. I had to put in roughly 600ml more oil to bring the oil level back up to full.

Two possibilities:

1.Cera-Tec coated the internal of my engine hence the sharp decrease of oil level in 300~350mi.

2.Oil filter caught all the solids in the Cera-Tec formula and now it's toast.

As far as engine smoothness/operations, my M3 has always been very smooth. You can barely feel the V8 running at a stop light. My MPG is all over the place, definitely not economical, it's a freakin' truck!

At least now I know Cera-Tec will coat the engine internals as advertised.
 
Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
I just want to report my observation and experience with Cera-Tec with my M3.

I changed the oil in my M3, and added two cans of Cera-Tec. The digital oil gauge gave me a sharp decrease in oil level reading after 300 miles or so. I had to put in roughly 600ml more oil to bring the oil level back up to full.

Two possibilities:

1.Cera-Tec coated the internal of my engine hence the sharp decrease of oil level in 300~350mi.

2.Oil filter caught all the solids in the Cera-Tec formula and now it's toast.

As far as engine smoothness/operations, my M3 has always been very smooth. You can barely feel the V8 running at a stop light. My MPG is all over the place, definitely not economical, it's a freakin' truck!

At least now I know Cera-Tec will coat the engine internals as advertised.


How does coating the internals give a sharp decrease in the oil level? That would be a pretty thick coating clinging to the internals. How soon after you shut the engine did you notice this?

I would however cut open the filter and see if 600 ml of solids were caught, that would mean the product would not be advisable to use. Thanks for your report.
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
pretty big filter if it holds 600 ml.... most cannot even take half that much in oil volume, and the oil is on both sides of the medium!


Exactly
 
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