PAG + other oil mix

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what happens if PAG gets mixed with mineral oil or PAO?

I've read on the net (where else) it turns to a blob, but I tried it today with some AC oil and mineral, so far it stays mixed and liquid...
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
what happens if PAG gets mixed with mineral oil or PAO?

I've read on the net (where else) it turns to a blob, but I tried it today with some AC oil and mineral, so far it stays mixed and liquid...


You have to differentiate between water soluble PAGs and Oil Suluble (OSP) PAGs.

The new DOW OSPs do not turn into blobs, so that info is incorrect.

However, the OSPs are not much polar so you have to "massage" the OSPs before introducing them into formulations.

I would not mix anything into A/C lubes since those lubes have various base oils and can have sneaky incompatibilities with other stuff.
 
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The miscibility test needs you to freeze it to the gel point, heat it to 150C for a bit, then freeze it back to the previous cold point and see if it plays up.

(75W90 gear oil and M1 5W50 look good just mixed and left, but produced clumps of stuff on heating that solve back in...doing who knows what.)

Molakule,
there is an Oz company making PAO refrigeration fluids that they claim are compatible with PAG automotives...is that really a possiblity ?
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow


...Molakule,
there is an Oz company making PAO refrigeration fluids that they claim are compatible with PAG automotives...is that really a possiblity ?


It makes me wonder what they mean by "compatible."

Do they mean "thoroughly mixable with no negatives or antagonistic side effects," or do they mean you can introduce the PAO fluid after the prior fluid has been flushed and or exhausted?
 
I'm not planning to add anything to my AC system, but was wondering what wouldhappen

I tried with Castrol Icematic 100, which is made from Polyolester.

Pour point is only -30°C so not extremely low.

I'll put the mix in the freezer but the plastic pop bottle I used for mixing won't like 150°C

Still no separation to be seen.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
It makes me wonder what they mean by "compatible."

Do they mean "thoroughly mixable with no negatives or antagonistic side effects," or do they mean you can introduce the PAO fluid after the prior fluid has been flushed and or exhausted?


http://www.rocoil.com/default.asp?p=7

Tip it in and go.
 
Thanks molakule
It gets rave reviews on Aussie forums, but would appreciate your insight on the science
 
I froze the POE/mineral mix overnight, and let it defrost again. never fully solidified though viscosity was much increased at -25°C. All is back to normal, so will look into heating the stuff to at least 150°C.

What is the compatibility like between POE and PAG, as it seems we're adding POE and UV tracer to systems with PAG in them (no ill effects noted yet)
 
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From http://www.rocoil.com/salesbrochure.pdf

Let me state at the beginning that I do not think all of their claims are bogus, but the engineering data and analysis may have been tainted or overstated by their marketing department.

Quote:
PAOil’s special blend creates less friction and heat and as a result compressors operate far more efficiently.


It appears to be a blend of various PAO cuts and an additive system.

What follows are some items that stood out to me.

Quote:
PAOil is a Polyalpha Olefin, NOT a PAG or an Esther.


A nit, but Esther is a proper name, whereas Ester is the proper description of a chemical. Maybe an Aussie thing?

Quote:
And because PAOil is proven to cause less failures in compressors, you’ll spend less time servicing returns and breakdowns.


What were the failure modes and what oil supposedly caused each? Most failure modes are due to leaks and or material incompatibilities.

Quote:
Tests prove PAOil reduces compressor RPM


In an automotive environment, the compressor RPM is dependent on engine RPM when the compressor clutch is engaged.

Quote:
Compatible with other lubricants
Quote:
Low Miscibility


So, how is it compatible if it doesn't mix well with other lubricants - how can this be explained?

Quote:
PAOil achieved lower air temperature out of the evaporator.


Quote:
PAO’s clearly produced a lower air temperature out of the evaporator and;


Quote:
- the improved cooling of PAO’s was
confirmed by the higher heat load on
the air and refrigerant systems.


The type of refrigerant used could affect the outcome here. I.E, what refrigerant verses which base oil gave what results? I would be more interested in how much heat rejection was found at the condensing coil location.


Quote:
PAOil will not effect;
- painted surfaces
- Teflon seals
- elastomer seals


PAO by itself will allow elastomer seals to shrink unless there is a seal conditioner included, which is probably why they stated earlier that it was a
Quote:
PAOil...synthetic oil, carefully blended...



Quote:
Increased Capacity


What capacity and under what conditions?
confused2.gif



Quote:
In recent independent tests (Report No: 555678-80, Dated October13th, 2004 – Oil Check Pty. Limited) PAOil out-performed Castrol Icematic SW100 and Emkarate RL68H. The oils were tested for wear scar to ASTM D4172 and the scars examined and reported on as
outlined in the following observations.
- PAOil showed a small scar with minimal damage. The oil showed no sign of discolouration.


Perhaps the report could shed more light on these claims such as:

1.) What was the baseline scar?
2.) What refrigerant was used in each of these tests?


Quote:
During tests comparing PAO’s and OEM PAG’s the following was found;


Which PAG's?
 
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