ATF+4 Castrol vs. Valvoline vs. Redline vs. RP?

[JCway16]

I recently picked up a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee HEMI with 90k miles which has the 545RFE transmission. I picked up both of the Mopar filters and a Fel-Pro trans pan gasket and now I'm trying to figure out which ATF+4 to go with.

The truck is my daily-driver and this week I'll be installing a 4" lift with 34" tires. I also like to drive onto the beach a lot during the summer.

With that being said...

Valvoline and Castrol are both readily available at my local Autozone etc. and as well as on Amazon. Which would be better out of those two readily available brand ATF+4 fluids?

Now onto the designer fluids such as Redline, RP and Amsoil. I see that some say they surpass the ATF+4 specs but none of them are on the list of certified ATF+4. So are they good enough, or not???

 

[bullwinkle]

All certified/licensed ATF+4 fluids contain the same additives & synthetic base stock, I use the cheapest one I can find (generally WM's Super Tech).

 

[earlyre]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
All certified/licensed ATF+4 fluids contain the same additives & synthetic base stock, I use the cheapest one I can find (generally WM's Super Tech).


what Bullwinkle said. as long as it's a licensed ATF+4, the only Difference is the Bottle, and the price. it's an EXTREMELY tight Spec. basically one basestock and one add pack, available from one supplier.

 

[901Memphis]

Yep to the licensed ATF+4 being the same. If you want something superior to ATF+4, your only option is Redline C+ which uses the correct additive package and coefficient of friction as normal ATF+4, but with more synthetic content.

Because Redline C+ isn't exactly the same base oil composition as ATF+4, it's not licensed, but it's clearly superior if you have the cash.

Otherwise just get Supertech ATF+4, usually the best bang for the buck.

If you decide to buy anything other than Redline C+, make sure it's on this list.

http://centerforqa.com/chrysler/licensed-atf4-brands

 

[tommygunn]

Every licensed ATF+4 on the list is the same, whether it's Valvoline, Castrol, Pennzoil, Mobil, Napa, Walmart brand, Mag 1, etc. it's all the same. Chrysler will ONLY allow a specific group III base stock from Shell, SK, or Petro-Canada along with an add pack from Lubrizol which is the only one allowed.

So just get the cheapest one on the list.

Redline C+ is different, as it uses Group V ester base stock instead of the G-III required by Chrysler. Chrysler will not license it even though it's better since they choose to be jealous and insecure and not allow anything beyond the tight rules they made. Redline also engages in childish price fixing. However, Redline C+ is a good ATF and probably the best fluid for Chryslers.

 

[jk_636]

JCway16, I have a 2006 Dodge Ram 1500. It has the 4.7 liter magnum engine and the same 545RFE transmission. A close family member also has an '06 wrangler unlimited. I say that to let you know I have quite a bit of experience with Mopar vehicles in this timeline.

I would use the Royal Purple. IMO they make the best fluids hands down and you definetely get what you pay for. Im not impressed by Redline. Valvolines, Castrols etc. are nice, but in no way compare to the performance of RP. I am a big fan and have used RP fluids in almost every part of that vehicle. RP also meets the criteria for Chrysler ATF+4 and Mopar AS68RC, so no worries there! An added bonus is that you can use the same fluid in your power steering system. Most '06 chrysler vehicles call for ATF+4 in the power steering pump, and not traditional PS fluid. It was amazing how much RP Max ATF quieted my power steering pump.

Make a long story short, change out all fluids to RP and you will not be dissapointed. I would do the following:
-RP HPS, HMX or API 5w30 (I would probably go HMX or HPS. They are the ones containing synerlec)
-Max ATF in tranny and PS reserviour (I used turkey baster method for PS pump. Takes about 2-3 times to get it all out)
-Max gear in front diff (75w-90) and rear diff. (75w-140.)

If you would like to buy these fluids in person, I would use Oreilly's if possible. They should have all of them in stock. If not, use Jegs. They have the best online prices and free shipping. Good luck!

 

[JCway16]

Thanks for the quick replies.

I do understand that Chrysler keeps a tight spec. on ATF+4 licensing. But, who's policing the quality of the mixture and such? Who's making these store brands???

So, Redline C+ and RP MAX ATF DEFINITELY surpasses ATF+4 specs? Can they be mixed with an ATF+4 fluid?

Anyone else have concrete input on RP vs. Redline?

 

[901Memphis]

I would NOT use the Royal purple max atf here. It claims to meet both dex/merc applications and atf+4 which have different coefficient of friction. It's clearly a comprise between the two specs.

The Redline C+ is superior in my opinion since it contains the correct additive package for ATF+4, but uses more desirable synthetic base oils instead of hydrocracked Group 3...no question the Redline is the best choice for your needs.

 

[jk_636]

The short answer is yes.

-RP does surpass on all manufacturers specs.

-RP can be mixed with other ATF+4 with other +4 fluids, but it would be best to drop the pan and drain as much as you can before adding it.

Here are some links to RPs website that can give you some more info:

API oil (fully synthetic, non synerlec. Since your vehicle is out of warranty you can use whatever you would like.)

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/royal-purple-motor-oil/

HPS oil (Tested against M1 and Amsoil Signature series I believe)
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/hps-motor-oil/

HMX oil (What I think would be best for your application)
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/hmx-high-mileage-motor-oil/

Max gear (outstanding gear oil)
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/max-gear/

Max ATF (and its compatability with other ATF specs)
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/max-atf-automatic-transmission-fluid/

VOA of HPS:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2578549

VOA of Redline:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2141562

Note: Even though they are two different weights (10/30 and 5/30), this should not cause excessive deviation of elemental results. These two oils take two different approaches to additive packages.

My Opinion: Redline has a smaller following. I haven't ever used it but some people swear by it. I still recommend RP as the better oil.

 

[donnyj08]

i would just use Supertech or a house brand fluid. They will be the same fluid, but it with a lower cost.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I would NOT use the Royal purple max atf here. It claims to meet both dex/merc applications and atf+4 which have different coefficient of friction. It's clearly a comprise between the two specs.

The Redline C+ is superior in my opinion since it contains the correct additive package for ATF+4, but uses more desirable synthetic base oils instead of hydrocracked Group 3...no question the Redline is the best choice for your needs.


Royal Purple is a fully synthetic group IV, compatible with all listed OEM specs. Exceeding factory specs is not a compromise.

Quote:
i would just use Supertech or a house brand fluid. They will be the same fluid, but it with a lower cost.


He is talking about using superior synthetic lubricants made by the top manufacturers in the market. Supertech or other no name house brand should not even be an option here.

Saying that supertech and Royal Purple are the same is like saying a yugo and a ferrari are the same because they are both cars. You cant be serious...?

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: earlyre
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
All certified/licensed ATF+4 fluids contain the same additives & synthetic base stock, I use the cheapest one I can find (generally WM's Super Tech).


what Bullwinkle said. as long as it's a licensed ATF+4, the only Difference is the Bottle, and the price. it's an EXTREMELY tight Spec. basically one basestock and one add pack, available from one supplier.


This.

Walmart has Supertech ATF+4 for $4.3x a quart IIRC. Cant go wrong and your transmission wont know the difference because it is literally the same thing as any other ATF+4. (Castrol, Valvoline, Oreilly house brand, etc.)

 

[901Memphis]

It is not possible to meet both Dexron/Mercon and ATF+4 specs correctly since the transmissions they go in contain different requirements for the coefficient of friction. The one thing you do not want to do is change the coefficient of friction in an automatic transmission.

In this case the Redline C+ contains the correct coefficient of friction needed for ATF+4 applications while Royal Purple does not. It may work but it's definitely not ideal.

Also there is zero difference between Supertech ATF+4 and any major label ATF+4 IF it's licensed, it contains the exact same PI package and base oil composition.

Once again will link to the licensed ATF+4 list. Everything on this list is the same.

http://centerforqa.com/chrysler/licensed-atf4-brands

That being said ATF+4 is a stringent specification, but it's getting long in the tooth, and Redline C+ is clearly superior.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
I would NOT use the Royal purple max atf here. It claims to meet both dex/merc applications and atf+4 which have different coefficient of friction. It's clearly a comprise between the two specs.

The Redline C+ is superior in my opinion since it contains the correct additive package for ATF+4, but uses more desirable synthetic base oils instead of hydrocracked Group 3...no question the Redline is the best choice for your needs.

For sure!

 

[tommygunn]

Originally Posted By: JCway16
Thanks for the quick replies.

I do understand that Chrysler keeps a tight spec. on ATF+4 licensing. But, who's policing the quality of the mixture and such? Who's making these store brands???

So, Redline C+ and RP MAX ATF DEFINITELY surpasses ATF+4 specs? Can they be mixed with an ATF+4 fluid?

Anyone else have concrete input on RP vs. Redline?


The ATF+4 licensing is policed by a company called the Center for Quality Assurance. Yeah I know it sounds fake, but that is indeed the company responsible for licensing the spec. FWIW, they also police GM dexos oil licenses. Center for Quality Assurance's website

Most house brands are made by Warren Distribution and some are made by a different, unrelated company with a similar name Warren Oil. Mag 1 is made by Warren Distribution.

Napa's house brand oil and transmission fluid is made by Valvoline, and they are or were also an OE supplier to Chrysler.

With ATF+4, though, it doesn't make a difference since they all use the SAME add pack and the SAME base oil from one of three suppliers, so it really doesn't matter whose name is on it.

 

[jk_636]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
It is not possible to meet both Dexron/Mercon and ATF+4 specs correctly since the transmissions they go in contain different requirements for the coefficient of friction. The one thing you do not want to do is change the coefficient of friction in an automatic transmission.

In this case the Redline C+ contains the correct coefficient of friction needed for ATF+4 applications while Royal Purple does not. It may work but it's definitely not ideal.

Also there is zero difference between Supertech ATF+4 and any major label ATF+4 IF it's licensed, it contains the exact same PI package and base oil composition.

Once again will link to the licensed ATF+4 list. Everything on this list is the same.

http://centerforqa.com/chrysler/licensed-atf4-brands

That being said ATF+4 is a stringent specification, but it's getting long in the tooth, and Redline C+ is clearly superior.


And what evidence do you have to support that RP does not meet the right "coefficient of friction?" All I see is that it does. Look at their website. Complete list of compatible and non compatible fluids. Chrysler owners manuals even say that any ATF+4 fluid is compatible with the 545RFE transmission.

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/max-atf-automatic-transmission-fluid/

So you show a third party link as "proof" while the vehicle manufacturer (Chrysler)says its ok for the 545RFE, the lubricant manufacturer (Royal Purple) says its ok, and you say its not. I wonder who is more credible...?

 

[zrxkawboy]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
while the vehicle manufacturer (Chrysler)says its ok for the 545RFE,


So, it's on the list of ATF+4 fluids? If not, then Chrysler does not "say its OK".

 

[901Memphis]

The proof is that they are not on the licensed ATF+4 list. It's also a huge red flag when any fluid claims to meet ATF+4 in addition to Dexron/Mercon which are not compatible fluids.

Redline C+ is the only exception to this list that I am aware of.

Look at the Redline fluids wording. Notice how it's specified only for Chrysler ATF+2/3/4 applications and NOTHING else, because Redline knows the difference that RP doesn't.


RED LINE C+ ATF satisfies the performance requirements of Chrysler MS7176, ATF+, ATF+2, ATF+3, and ATF+4 while providing 30% greater operating viscosity, 1/3 of the evaporation of petroleum ATFs, and improved oxidation and sludge protection.

Red Line C+ ATF provides the exact frictional characteristics required in the MS7176 specification, providing proper shift feel and proper lockup torque converter operation. The use of an improper fluid could cause torque converter shudder or harsh
shifting. Red Line C+ ATF also provides the best low-temperature shiftability in automatic transmissions allowing proper shifting at extremely low temperatures and will flow down to temperatures as low as -60°C. The improved wear protection makes C+ ATF the perfect automatic transmission or transaxle fluid for Chrysler vehicles.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
(Chrysler)says its ok for the 545RFE, the lubricant manufacturer (Royal Purple) says its ok, and you say its not. I wonder who is more credible...?

Really, Chrysler mention RP by name ?

Or RP say that they "are recommended for" applications requiring a certain spec, which includes Chrysler's specs ?

There's a difference...a big one.

 

[jk_636]

Don't be ridiculous. They don't mentkon them or any manufacturer by name. The owners manual says that ANY ATF+4 can be used. That means RP, Redlone, BG etc.