My Grandpa REFUSES to own ANY Toyotas....
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Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
OK, but despite those on here who think that they really are 'the master race' due to the above, it would have taken them MUCH longer to get where they are without U.S. helping to rebuild their ; country/infrastructure/industry.
The US did that, did they?
Volkswagen was rescued by the British Army (led by Major Ivan Hirst of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers). They laid the foundations for the success of the Beetle and of VW, which helped mobilise the nation (literally, economically and symbolically) back to success.
It was a team effort guys. And let's also remember that these 'losing' nations faced tough sanctions and years of 'rehabilitation' into the global community. If the allied nations were willing to help them recover post-war (when memories were freshest), maybe we should celebrate their endeavours and support?
I have no national bias based on historic conflicts. If I did I would never buy anything French, Italian, Scandinavian, Spanish, American, German, Austrian, Russian, Indian or Scottish. I would get pretty cold and hungry pretty soon. That's not to say I dismiss or forget what happened, but the outcome of these disagreements has led to a better future for BOTH sides, so rather than keep sulking about it, we should move on and learn the lessons.
For the record I have had cars from brands that are British, American, French, German, Czech, Swedish and Japanese. The worst one was a (British-built) Ford.
Sorry, but it was the US. US was literally pouring in the cash for the British, French, West Germans and the Japanese as all of these countries were broke after the war (financially and physical infrastructure) and the western world needed a counter measure against communist Russia. That is why US became the world's power house as it was the only supplier for the developed world plus all those loans to British, Germans, French and Japanese had to be paid back with interest.
If it weren’t for US, Japan would still be in stone age, or more likely part of China.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
OK, but despite those on here who think that they really are 'the master race' due to the above, it would have taken them MUCH longer to get where they are without U.S. helping to rebuild their ; country/infrastructure/industry.
The US did that, did they?
Volkswagen was rescued by the British Army (led by Major Ivan Hirst of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers). They laid the foundations for the success of the Beetle and of VW, which helped mobilise the nation (literally, economically and symbolically) back to success.
It was a team effort guys. And let's also remember that these 'losing' nations faced tough sanctions and years of 'rehabilitation' into the global community. If the allied nations were willing to help them recover post-war (when memories were freshest), maybe we should celebrate their endeavours and support?
I have no national bias based on historic conflicts. If I did I would never buy anything French, Italian, Scandinavian, Spanish, American, German, Austrian, Russian, Indian or Scottish. I would get pretty cold and hungry pretty soon. That's not to say I dismiss or forget what happened, but the outcome of these disagreements has led to a better future for BOTH sides, so rather than keep sulking about it, we should move on and learn the lessons.
For the record I have had cars from brands that are British, American, French, German, Czech, Swedish and Japanese. The worst one was a (British-built) Ford.
Sorry, but it was the US. US was literally pouring in the cash for the British, French, West Germans and the Japanese as all of these countries were broke after the war (financially and physical infrastructure) and the western world needed a counter measure against communist Russia. That is why US became the world's power house as it was the only supplier for the developed world plus all those loans to British, Germans, French and Japanese had to be paid back with interest.
If it weren’t for US, Japan would still be in stone age, or more likely part of China.
Originally Posted By: Lapham3
In 1980 my dad bought a Mazda RX7 and some of the guys in his Army 41st Division Association were some peeved with him for that. He changed/mellowed after 35 years, but some took longer or never did. Even as few Japanese tried to surrender, after the 'word' of Bataan,ect the 41st took about zero prisoners.
In 1979, I had bought a new Datsun when I was in the service. A lot of the older guys criticized me for that.
In 1980 my dad bought a Mazda RX7 and some of the guys in his Army 41st Division Association were some peeved with him for that. He changed/mellowed after 35 years, but some took longer or never did. Even as few Japanese tried to surrender, after the 'word' of Bataan,ect the 41st took about zero prisoners.
In 1979, I had bought a new Datsun when I was in the service. A lot of the older guys criticized me for that.
Originally Posted By: weasley
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
OK, but despite those on here who think that they really are 'the master race' due to the above, it would have taken them MUCH longer to get where they are without U.S. helping to rebuild their ; country/infrastructure/industry.
The US did that, did they?
Volkswagen was rescued by the British Army (led by Major Ivan Hirst of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers). They laid the foundations for the success of the Beetle and of VW, which helped mobilise the nation (literally, economically and symbolically) back to success.
It was a team effort guys. And let's also remember that these 'losing' nations faced tough sanctions and years of 'rehabilitation' into the global community. If the allied nations were willing to help them recover post-war (when memories were freshest), maybe we should celebrate their endeavours and support?
I have no national bias based on historic conflicts. If I did I would never buy anything French, Italian, Scandinavian, Spanish, American, German, Austrian, Russian, Indian or Scottish. I would get pretty cold and hungry pretty soon. That's not to say I dismiss or forget what happened, but the outcome of these disagreements has led to a better future for BOTH sides, so rather than keep sulking about it, we should move on and learn the lessons.
For the record I have had cars from brands that are British, American, French, German, Czech, Swedish and Japanese. The worst one was a (British-built) Ford.
Major Hirst had to hide a large seam welder to prevent it from being repatriated to the French. Without it, the welded body of the Volkswagen would not have been possible. It had been stolen from Peugeot I think during the Nazi occupation.
I don't know that the Americans really did anything like that for the Japanese. The Japanese were pretty much the Industrial nation in Asia at that time. They plundered raw materials from their neighbors...wiped out almost every tree in Korea. Enslaved the Chinese and plundered their coal, iron, copper....anything they could get. The Japanese islands were sacrosanct. You don't tear down Mt Fuji even if it is made entirely of coal and iron. But the mainland? Open season.
Maybe the US did give some design elements. The Japanese typically aren't very good at original ideas but are exceptionally good at making them smaller, better, more efficient... The Fuji Rabbit scooter wasn't revolutionary. It's an improvement of the US Cushman scooter that US Servicemen were riding. But it did beat Vespa to production by several months.
Similarly, the transistor radio. The Japanese certainly did not invent the transistor radio. You could get a quality European made transistor radio or you could get a Sony or Panasonic. Maybe it never occurred to me to disregard Japanese products because of that little radio. That Japanese 9V battery powered AM radio was a part of my youth. Listening to ballgames, having control of my own music....etc... it survived everything I put it through. David Lee Roth once said that one of his favorite childhood memories was walking down the street listening to Green Onions by Booker T and the M.G.s on his Sony transistor radio. One of mine was camping out with my friends with my transistor radio playing whatever rock station we could find.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
OK, but despite those on here who think that they really are 'the master race' due to the above, it would have taken them MUCH longer to get where they are without U.S. helping to rebuild their ; country/infrastructure/industry.
The US did that, did they?
Volkswagen was rescued by the British Army (led by Major Ivan Hirst of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers). They laid the foundations for the success of the Beetle and of VW, which helped mobilise the nation (literally, economically and symbolically) back to success.
It was a team effort guys. And let's also remember that these 'losing' nations faced tough sanctions and years of 'rehabilitation' into the global community. If the allied nations were willing to help them recover post-war (when memories were freshest), maybe we should celebrate their endeavours and support?
I have no national bias based on historic conflicts. If I did I would never buy anything French, Italian, Scandinavian, Spanish, American, German, Austrian, Russian, Indian or Scottish. I would get pretty cold and hungry pretty soon. That's not to say I dismiss or forget what happened, but the outcome of these disagreements has led to a better future for BOTH sides, so rather than keep sulking about it, we should move on and learn the lessons.
For the record I have had cars from brands that are British, American, French, German, Czech, Swedish and Japanese. The worst one was a (British-built) Ford.
Major Hirst had to hide a large seam welder to prevent it from being repatriated to the French. Without it, the welded body of the Volkswagen would not have been possible. It had been stolen from Peugeot I think during the Nazi occupation.
I don't know that the Americans really did anything like that for the Japanese. The Japanese were pretty much the Industrial nation in Asia at that time. They plundered raw materials from their neighbors...wiped out almost every tree in Korea. Enslaved the Chinese and plundered their coal, iron, copper....anything they could get. The Japanese islands were sacrosanct. You don't tear down Mt Fuji even if it is made entirely of coal and iron. But the mainland? Open season.
Maybe the US did give some design elements. The Japanese typically aren't very good at original ideas but are exceptionally good at making them smaller, better, more efficient... The Fuji Rabbit scooter wasn't revolutionary. It's an improvement of the US Cushman scooter that US Servicemen were riding. But it did beat Vespa to production by several months.
Similarly, the transistor radio. The Japanese certainly did not invent the transistor radio. You could get a quality European made transistor radio or you could get a Sony or Panasonic. Maybe it never occurred to me to disregard Japanese products because of that little radio. That Japanese 9V battery powered AM radio was a part of my youth. Listening to ballgames, having control of my own music....etc... it survived everything I put it through. David Lee Roth once said that one of his favorite childhood memories was walking down the street listening to Green Onions by Booker T and the M.G.s on his Sony transistor radio. One of mine was camping out with my friends with my transistor radio playing whatever rock station we could find.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Coming from a big fan of Japan, its history, and anime; my biggest beef with Japan is that they don't own up to what they did. In their history books WW2 is still some little adventure in the Pacific that ended badly.
They don't talk about the horrible things they did to the Chinese, ever.
Now I don't think they just do it in an excessive way like the Germans, but talking about it a bit more isn't such a bad thing.
Man, if there's one argument that can push me off of my desire to be as objective as possible it's that one. I don't hold any animosity towards the Japanese for anything, but if there's something I don't like it's a person who can't own up to a wrong they have done.
Coming from a big fan of Japan, its history, and anime; my biggest beef with Japan is that they don't own up to what they did. In their history books WW2 is still some little adventure in the Pacific that ended badly.
They don't talk about the horrible things they did to the Chinese, ever.
Now I don't think they just do it in an excessive way like the Germans, but talking about it a bit more isn't such a bad thing.
Man, if there's one argument that can push me off of my desire to be as objective as possible it's that one. I don't hold any animosity towards the Japanese for anything, but if there's something I don't like it's a person who can't own up to a wrong they have done.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
They would do NONE of this IF it did not profit them, something that everyone who labels them as 'saints' fails to see, or admit.
They do NONE of this out of the 'kindness of their hearts', or a beneficent attitude towards U.S. citizens.
It is all a P.R. win-win for them, and a tax/cost reduction to add to their already overflowing coffers.
duh? Why would you expect a business to do something that did not benefit them in some way?
Should Ford move manufacturing overseas out of the kindness of their hearts and a desire to help the poor people of Thailand or Vietnam? ...or should they do so because there's an advantage to be had by doing so?
Just because a business does something for profit doesn't mean that we discount all of the things they've done that benefit persons or entities that are not that business.
They would do NONE of this IF it did not profit them, something that everyone who labels them as 'saints' fails to see, or admit.
They do NONE of this out of the 'kindness of their hearts', or a beneficent attitude towards U.S. citizens.
It is all a P.R. win-win for them, and a tax/cost reduction to add to their already overflowing coffers.
duh? Why would you expect a business to do something that did not benefit them in some way?
Should Ford move manufacturing overseas out of the kindness of their hearts and a desire to help the poor people of Thailand or Vietnam? ...or should they do so because there's an advantage to be had by doing so?
Just because a business does something for profit doesn't mean that we discount all of the things they've done that benefit persons or entities that are not that business.
Marcel Ophuls did a great documentary about 1970 called "The Sorrow and The Pity" about the occupation of a small French town as remembered by the German occupiers and the townsmen. The townsmen, of course all told the interviewer that they "resisted" in their "own way" very defensively. The Germans said they collaborated.
The most interesting interview was with the guy who unquestionably was really a member of the resistance. The difference in demeanor by a guy with a clear conscience is really striking. He drove a Mercedes, completely unselfconciously
The most interesting interview was with the guy who unquestionably was really a member of the resistance. The difference in demeanor by a guy with a clear conscience is really striking. He drove a Mercedes, completely unselfconciously
Merica!
I refuse to buy Kia's and Hyundai's. KIA are three letters that to most men and women in the service don't want to see. Ive bought Hondas and Mazdas but do feel a little more patriotic driving Fords.
I refuse to buy Kia's and Hyundai's. KIA are three letters that to most men and women in the service don't want to see. Ive bought Hondas and Mazdas but do feel a little more patriotic driving Fords.
Originally Posted By: dothedrew1202
Merica!
I refuse to buy Kia's and Hyundai's. KIA are three letters that to most men and women in the service don't want to see. Ive bought Hondas and Mazdas but do feel a little more patriotic driving Fords.
I get the KIA thing, that is an unfortunate name, but the Republic of Korea has been one of the United States' most staunch and loyal allies.
In Vietnam, who besides the Aussies supported the US?
The ROK.
The Communist North Vietnamese forces did not like to engage the Aussies. They genuinely feared the ROKs.
Henry Ford has been described as a Nazi sympathizer. Henry Ford is the only American mentioned in Mein Kampf so Ford and Hitler had a sort of mutual appreciation society.
Merica!
I refuse to buy Kia's and Hyundai's. KIA are three letters that to most men and women in the service don't want to see. Ive bought Hondas and Mazdas but do feel a little more patriotic driving Fords.
I get the KIA thing, that is an unfortunate name, but the Republic of Korea has been one of the United States' most staunch and loyal allies.
In Vietnam, who besides the Aussies supported the US?
The ROK.
The Communist North Vietnamese forces did not like to engage the Aussies. They genuinely feared the ROKs.
Henry Ford has been described as a Nazi sympathizer. Henry Ford is the only American mentioned in Mein Kampf so Ford and Hitler had a sort of mutual appreciation society.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I get the KIA thing, that is an unfortunate name, but the Republic of Korea has been one of the United States' most staunch and loyal allies.
In Vietnam, who besides the Aussies supported the US?
The ROK.
The Communist North Vietnamese forces did not like to engage the Aussies. They genuinely feared the ROKs.
Henry Ford has been described as a Nazi sympathizer. Henry Ford is the only American mentioned in Mein Kampf so Ford and Hitler had a sort of mutual appreciation society.
The Australian War Monument in Canberra has some pretty awesome stuff about the Australian military's involvement in both Vietnam and Korea. They also have a collection of the most incredible dioramas for various WW1 battles that I have ever seen.
I get the KIA thing, that is an unfortunate name, but the Republic of Korea has been one of the United States' most staunch and loyal allies.
In Vietnam, who besides the Aussies supported the US?
The ROK.
The Communist North Vietnamese forces did not like to engage the Aussies. They genuinely feared the ROKs.
Henry Ford has been described as a Nazi sympathizer. Henry Ford is the only American mentioned in Mein Kampf so Ford and Hitler had a sort of mutual appreciation society.
The Australian War Monument in Canberra has some pretty awesome stuff about the Australian military's involvement in both Vietnam and Korea. They also have a collection of the most incredible dioramas for various WW1 battles that I have ever seen.
My dad wont buy anything but a Honda, too many lemon Chevys and Oldsmobiles.
Lots of German trucks in WWII were Opel, owned by GM since 1929.
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Nazis-rode-to-war-on-GM-wheels-2659006.php
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm
http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/article/Nazis-rode-to-war-on-GM-wheels-2659006.php
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm
All it took for me to stop using Motorcraft and Purolator filters was 2 bad filters. Many people have shunned Fram oil filters because of a filter someone else had years ago. My neighbor will not buy Fords because his dad had 2 bad ones when he was a kid. Some people will not use Pennzoil because it was rumored to cause wax build up years ago.
So many of us hold grudges against companies that gave us a poor quality product, why is it so hard to understand a veteran boycotting products from a country that tried to kill him? I can't imagine the horrors they went through. They were fighting for their lives and our freedom. That has to be hard to let go.
Trying to talk him into buying a Toyota, may be like asking him to forget or forgive. He likely just is not ready for that and may never be. Just like many Japanese will never forgive us for the bombs.
For the rest of us, it is very different. Japan has been an ally and trade partner for most of our lives. We never experienced the war. We enjoyed their craftsmanship and dedication to national pride in manufacturing. Something I believe is going away with the global economy. They are starting to put quick profits before quality like the big 3 have done. I also believe Hyundai/Kia will be on top in quality in a few years. They are still trying to earn a reputation for quality. Once they get it they will rest on it like everyone else and a new player will start their rise to the top.
So many of us hold grudges against companies that gave us a poor quality product, why is it so hard to understand a veteran boycotting products from a country that tried to kill him? I can't imagine the horrors they went through. They were fighting for their lives and our freedom. That has to be hard to let go.
Trying to talk him into buying a Toyota, may be like asking him to forget or forgive. He likely just is not ready for that and may never be. Just like many Japanese will never forgive us for the bombs.
For the rest of us, it is very different. Japan has been an ally and trade partner for most of our lives. We never experienced the war. We enjoyed their craftsmanship and dedication to national pride in manufacturing. Something I believe is going away with the global economy. They are starting to put quick profits before quality like the big 3 have done. I also believe Hyundai/Kia will be on top in quality in a few years. They are still trying to earn a reputation for quality. Once they get it they will rest on it like everyone else and a new player will start their rise to the top.
Right on about "grudges." I ordered a 66 Dodge Dart with four on the floor, disc brakes and the V8. Sorriest vehicle I ever owned except a VW Rabbit. Traded that Dart for a 67 Toyota Corona and have owned Toyotas and Hondas ever since. I won't even read a review of Chrysler products.
At his age, should he be still driving.
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
..because of Japan bombing Perl Harbor, and killing all those people, it also took 8 months of his freedom away in the service preparing to fight in the Pacific.
He says people his age can't drive them, because of the war.
How can I convince him that Toyotas are as American as GM Impalas? He is open minded.
STILL OPENED BY JAPAN, I WILL NEVER OWN 1
..because of Japan bombing Perl Harbor, and killing all those people, it also took 8 months of his freedom away in the service preparing to fight in the Pacific.
He says people his age can't drive them, because of the war.
How can I convince him that Toyotas are as American as GM Impalas? He is open minded.
STILL OPENED BY JAPAN, I WILL NEVER OWN 1
Originally Posted By: splinter
Yep not many WW2 veterans still with us these days.
Has he read Laura Hillenbrand's Unbroken ?
My father still happens to be around at 89 and he spent 2 1/2 years in New Guinea and the Philippines under MacArthur. While he visited Japan on business and so forth he still has nightmares from time to time and harbors a deep hatred towards Japan. I harbor some of that hatred myself as I have heard his accounts of what happened. As he said we never took prisoners and many a vet said that in the Pacific.
Yep not many WW2 veterans still with us these days.
Has he read Laura Hillenbrand's Unbroken ?
My father still happens to be around at 89 and he spent 2 1/2 years in New Guinea and the Philippines under MacArthur. While he visited Japan on business and so forth he still has nightmares from time to time and harbors a deep hatred towards Japan. I harbor some of that hatred myself as I have heard his accounts of what happened. As he said we never took prisoners and many a vet said that in the Pacific.
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