Synthetic Oil and the Hemi Tick

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: Bookmaker
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
could be the ADBV difference that led to the fix??

What specific Wix filter are you using that solved the problem for you??


Your issue sounds like an ADBV issue, so that could be it

I am using Wix 57899/Napa Gold 7899

Here's one I cut open.


Thanks. Good photos.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We have two Hemis in our stable now. Neither have any tick. One is a 6.1 with over 100k hard miles and the other is a brand new 14 Ram we just got.

I am certain the issue is an adbv problem, a lifter can also have a tiny fleck of something that lets it leak down.

My prescription? Change the oil and filter, then take that thing out and get on it a bit. My 14 is mechanically silent, truly a wondrous engine IMO...


I am pretty much convinced it is an ADBV issue as well. My 14 Ram is mechanically silent as well.


Awesome stable there! But don't miss my point. Get on the throttle in the upper gears. It can be hard to do in these very powerful vehicles, but it is essential to a good break in and a long and happy engine life.

In your manual it states that full throttle is beneficial to break in. Just avoid the first and second gears, work it a bit.

Enjoy...
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
We have two Hemis in our stable now. Neither have any tick. One is a 6.1 with over 100k hard miles and the other is a brand new 14 Ram we just got.

I am certain the issue is an adbv problem, a lifter can also have a tiny fleck of something that lets it leak down.

My prescription? Change the oil and filter, then take that thing out and get on it a bit. My 14 is mechanically silent, truly a wondrous engine IMO...


I am pretty much convinced it is an ADBV issue as well. My 14 Ram is mechanically silent as well.


Awesome stable there! But don't miss my point. Get on the throttle in the upper gears. It can be hard to do in these very powerful vehicles, but it is essential to a good break in and a long and happy engine life.

In your manual it states that full throttle is beneficial to break in. Just avoid the first and second gears, work it a bit.

Enjoy...


Good advice and I'll add, find some long downhills and let it pull tons of vacuum in gear without touching the brakes when you can early on.
 
Thanks to everyone for all your good advice and assistance. I will let you know if the oil filter/synthetic oil change works.

Dave
 
Originally Posted By: drfeelgood
To others who have or have owned Hemis:
My 2010 Jeep Hemi 5.7 has from day one had a tick that sounds like an exhaust leak, best heard with driver window down, with acceleration.
No difference in 4 yrs, 35000 miles and multiple types of oil and filters. Dealer claims no exhaust leak found.
Should I just accept this as the "Hemi tick"?


THAT sounds like it is the "Infamous HEMI Tick" (IFT) if it is always there warm or cold( can be louder or softer with temp change but is always present ). Newest 5.7L with it I have heard about though FWIW.

And yes, it sounds a lot like an exhaust manifold leak( or valve train ticking/tapping ). However, with that said, the older Ram's w/ 5.7L's did have some issues with exhaust manifolds cracking and/or bolts breaking which caused exhaust leaks. While you said the dealer didn't find any leaks, and I imagine it is a totally different manifold on your 2010 Jeep vs the older Rams that it was not uncommon on, it may be worth checking again and also looking for loose/broken bolts.

I can remember quite a few guys from the HEMI and Dodge truck forums that thought they had the IFT only to discover it was exhaust manifold related. Took a while for that issue to become more known and talked about and then quite a few discovered they had it and that it was not in fact the IFT.

Is that what you have? Do you have the IFT? Or, do you have some other issue that is totally different? Just impossible to diagnose over the internet. Hearing it in person would give me more of an idea what I think it is but FWIW I hope the above info helps.

Also FWIW, I had a 2004 Ram 1500 w/ 5.7L and the IFT and while I could never totally get rid of it I found RP( the old SL 5W30 formula which would be closest to their current HPS line )along with a good quality, hi-flow, filter( used K&N or M1 at the time - would use the RP one now )lessened it a lot( good 80%+ ). It was just night and day different with that oil and those filters vs any others. I had a 2008 Ram 1500 w/ 5.7L and it never developed the IFT running on RP API 5W20 and RP filters. That engine was as quiet as any I have ever had.

If it is the IFT I would not worry about it as there are 5.7L's out there with 200K+ with it that are running strong to this day. My 04 ran like a gorilla with a rocket up it's keister. Just went tick...tick...tick...all the time.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: Clevy
K. Whatever man. We've had hemi trucks in our family since 04,and currently there is an 08,a 2010,a2012 and a 2014 in our familial stable,in ram trucks and an 06 rt charger so I do have quite a bit of experience with the 5.7l engine and its capabilities over many hundreds of thousands of miles.
If it does clatter then get out and blow it up so warranty will replace it,otherwise you'll be stuck with a clattery engine for 350000 miles or til you sell it.
My dads 2014 was noisy when new but it was purchased last February so winter was in full effect.
Anyways it's been my experience that noisy or not the hemi is a very long lasting reliable engine,but get whatever concerns you have documented by the dealer just in case.
We've never had an engine problem in any of our hemi engines. The front ends though seem to need complete replacement at or around 200000 miles.


Clevy: I appreciate your inputs and experience. I have no doubt that the 5.7L Hemi is strong and durable. However, I have never had an engine of any kind (and I have owned over 80 vehicles in my life)clatter on start up. My 2014 Ram with the 5.7L does not make a sound on start up (at least not a clattering sound)no matter how long it sits. I want to fix it if on the Challenger if I can. If not, then I will live with it or trade it. I was hoping it might be an oil issue since the factory fill is not full synthetic. Thus the reason for this thread.



Fair enough.
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: wemay
I doubt this is a syn v conv or xw20 v xw30 issue. I'm with Clevy here. But seeing that this is troubling you (understandably so) if anything, start with the filter. Of coarse, we all know that without the ability to hear it, these recommendations hold very little merit unless it were a common issue discussed on various boards. Have you visited any HEMI/Dodge/Mopar Forums?


Agree that I will start with the filter. I will also switch to a full synthetic at the same time. According to multiple sources, switching to a heavier weight oil is not an option. Using anything but 5W-20 will cause problems with the MDS. I also belong to 2 Challenger forums as well. Some of the members swear that changing to a full synthetic (Redline was one example) cured the problem. Others claim that a full synthetic oil made the problem worse. So far, I have discovered no consensus on this issue.




Whoa.
K. Mds and vvt are unaffected by using a thicker grade of oil. I currently have a 0w-40 in my charger,and have been using 40 grades in it for the summer since I acquired it and MDS isn't affected,nor is vvt.

Think about it. An Xw-20 cold is way thicker than an Xw-40 hot,yet the mds and vvt both work just fine when the oil is cold,so please explain.
And don't give me the dodge says so nonsense. There are many reasons dodge wants you to use a 20 grade,not that there's anything wrong with them,it's just that I hear and read all the time on how the hemi needs a 5w-20 for the systems to work which is utter nonsense.
If that were true the vehicles mds and vvt wouldn't work until the oil was up to operating temp,which in the winter can take 30 minutes.
I've proven that mds will engage as soon as I set cruise on flat highway on a cold engine and oil.
And just to be clear my chargers fuel economy is unaffected whether using a 20 grade or a thicker 40 grade. Both grades net me the same fuel consumtion on the highway,and I got my best highway mileage of 31mpg using a 0w-40.
So if I'm capable of getting that kind of mileage and mds isn't working then just imagine what a 20 grade will do.
That whole nonsense of "requiring" a 5w-20 or the mds won't work is nothing more than a scare tactic. All engines are built to run a range of viscosities,not just 1.
Anyway getting back to the 5w-20 grade my 04 got totalled at 280k. It got dealer oil changes every 5000 miles using conventional oil and that truck ran stellar,and didn't consume a drop of oil between changes. So I'm not knocking the 20 grades whatsoever. I've seen many modular ford engines and hemi engines get stratospheric type mileages from the engines using 20 grades all their service lives,I'm just clarifying that a hemi doesn't require a 20 grade for the systems to work.
If that were true the engine would be inoperable until up to operating temp which we know isn't the case.
Truth be told if it is valvetrain then try a can of liqui-moly mos2. I've used it in every engine I've owned for many years.
Maybe that's why none of mine tick.


Up until a couple of weeks ago, I did not know anything about the MDS (still do not know much). Actually the dealer never said anything about oil weight and the MDS. I got that from a lot of posts on various forums. Interesting that you are the first that said oil weight has no impact on the MDS (which would be good news). I saw one technical post that did a pretty good job of explaining the situation. I will try to see if I can find it again.

Tell me more about liquid-moly mos2.


The MDS system uses oil under pressure. I will try and explain how it works in simple terms here( mainly because I am pretty simple myself
grin.gif
)...

When the computer wants to engage MDS( so actually disengage 4 cylinders )special solenoids that are located under the intake manifold( where they used to be anyway )open and allow a stream of high pressure oil to travel along special oil galleries to the lifters. The lifters have a special pin on them and also a special spring inside the lifter itself. The lifters sort of collapse when the high pressure shot of oil hits the pin. The internal spring keeps enough pressure on the pushrod so everything in the valve train stays in place BUT it doesn't allow enough lift to cause the rocker to pivot forcing the valve open. Keeps it all closed up but still all in contact. Basically that is how it works.

The MDS system is designed to work using oil under pressure and was designed to do so using a 20 weight oil. Lots of people claim oil weight does not effect the MDS system. I don't want to go down that road again and argue. IMO, Chrysler designed the MDS system using a 20 weight oil and specifically tell you in the Owner's Manual not to use other weights or damage may occur. So to me it is a no brainer to stick with a 20 weight oil.

Will other weights work fine with it? Lots of owners claim that but I just fall back on the mfg's warning. They designed and built the system so in this case I will defer to them. I never even had a notion to try and see if other weights worked in my 08 Ram 1500 that had the 5.7L and MDS frankly. 5W20 works fine in the 5.7L so there is no need to use anything else. Even if you are in an extremely hot climate you can just run synthetic.

I would also strongly advise against you using any thicker weight oils in your vehicle as it is new and under warranty. You have an engine noise issue you are unsure of so do not give the car mfg any out if it worsens and engine repairs are needed. Chrysler is a stickler for following their maintenance requirements. IF you go in with an internal engine issue the 1st thing they will do once diagnosing the issue, before they do any warranty work, is to verify proper maintenance was performed and specifically oil changes.

They will see if the work was done at the dealer 1st. If the dealer has records of the correct # of OC's for your mileage/age of vehicle that takes care of it. If not they will require proof of OC's from you. They will want receipts showing what was done at an indy shop OR that you purchased enough oil and filters to cover your mileage/vehicle age. They will also check your receipts to make sure you used the right oil( 5W20, API Certified w/ Starburst, meets Chrysler MS6395 )and filter( by application ). If you can't provide the documentation they want you are SOL barring winning a long legal battle.

Even if it is a hard part failure( failed lifter or bent valve for instance ), and not the fault of the oil used, if you didn't do proper maintenance Chrysler( or any car mfg )will immediately jump on your failure to try and get out of fixing it. You might win in court but you will end up there to get it fixed under warranty almost for sure.

Just my opinion. I strongly urge you NOT to use anything but 5W20 that meets all of your warranty needs. Once warranty is out go ahead and run what you want. Until then, and especially with a vehicle making engine noises, do not deviate from the Owner's manual for oil weight, ratings, and change interval. Always use the correct filter by application as well( in other words don't use oversized filters - get the right one, from the brand you want, for your vehicle ). Even using a non MOPAR filter, with engine noise issues, can lead to warranty hassle as Chrysler will probably blame it or at least try.

I worked dealer service before and this is the best advice I can give you in your situation. Hope it helps.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
The MDS system uses oil under pressure. I will try and explain how it works in simple terms here( mainly because I am pretty simple myself
grin.gif
)...

When the computer wants to engage MDS( so actually disengage 4 cylinders )special solenoids that are located under the intake manifold( where they used to be anyway )open and allow a stream of high pressure oil to travel along special oil galleries to the lifters. The lifters have a special pin on them and also a special spring inside the lifter itself. The lifters sort of collapse when the high pressure shot of oil hits the pin. The internal spring keeps enough pressure on the pushrod so everything in the valve train stays in place BUT it doesn't allow enough lift to cause the rocker to pivot forcing the valve open. Keeps it all closed up but still all in contact. Basically that is how it works.

The MDS system is designed to work using oil under pressure and was designed to do so using a 20 weight oil. Lots of people claim oil weight does not effect the MDS system. I don't want to go down that road again and argue. IMO, Chrysler designed the MDS system using a 20 weight oil and specifically tell you in the Owner's Manual not to use other weights or damage may occur. So to me it is a no brainer to stick with a 20 weight oil.

Will other weights work fine with it? Lots of owners claim that but I just fall back on the mfg's warning. They designed and built the system so in this case I will defer to them. I never even had a notion to try and see if other weights worked in my 08 Ram 1500 that had the 5.7L and MDS frankly. 5W20 works fine in the 5.7L so there is no need to use anything else. Even if you are in an extremely hot climate you can just run synthetic.

I would also strongly advise against you using any thicker weight oils in your vehicle as it is new and under warranty. You have an engine noise issue you are unsure of so do not give the car mfg any out if it worsens and engine repairs are needed. Chrysler is a stickler for following their maintenance requirements. IF you go in with an internal engine issue the 1st thing they will do once diagnosing the issue, before they do any warranty work, is to verify proper maintenance was performed and specifically oil changes.

They will see if the work was done at the dealer 1st. If the dealer has records of the correct # of OC's for your mileage/age of vehicle that takes care of it. If not they will require proof of OC's from you. They will want receipts showing what was done at an indy shop OR that you purchased enough oil and filters to cover your mileage/vehicle age. They will also check your receipts to make sure you used the right oil( 5W20, API Certified w/ Starburst, meets Chrysler MS6395 )and filter( by application ). If you can't provide the documentation they want you are SOL barring winning a long legal battle.

Even if it is a hard part failure( failed lifter or bent valve for instance ), and not the fault of the oil used, if you didn't do proper maintenance Chrysler( or any car mfg )will immediately jump on your failure to try and get out of fixing it. You might win in court but you will end up there to get it fixed under warranty almost for sure.

Just my opinion. I strongly urge you NOT to use anything but 5W20 that meets all of your warranty needs. Once warranty is out go ahead and run what you want. Until then, and especially with a vehicle making engine noises, do not deviate from the Owner's manual for oil weight, ratings, and change interval. Always use the correct filter by application as well( in other words don't use oversized filters - get the right one, from the brand you want, for your vehicle ). Even using a non MOPAR filter, with engine noise issues, can lead to warranty hassle as Chrysler will probably blame it or at least try.

I worked dealer service before and this is the best advice I can give you in your situation. Hope it helps.


Absolutely outstanding explanation of how the MDS system uses oil to work properly. It tracks exactly with other (less clear) explanations I have seen. Your advice is sound and you can be sure my Challenger and Ram will get nothing but the highest quality 5W-20 oil as long as I own them. I am leaning towards using PP Ultra unless you think there is a better choice.

One more question. Do you think the ADBV on the factory filter may be contributing to the start up noise after the car sits idle for a couple of days? If so, what filter would you recommend that has the best ADBV available?

Thanks again for your post.

Dave
 
Last edited:
Thanks, NHHEMI.
I had read on the Jeep forums about some issues with cracked bolts or exhaust manifolds, also some speculation of noisy emissions valves/pumps being the source.
Regardless, the Hemi runs great and if I keep the windows up I don't hear it!

As a side note, I turned off the MDS with a Predator programmer. No difference in noise.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I worked dealer service before and this is the best advice I can give you in your situation. Hope it helps.


despite the proof that MDS is extremely tolerant of oil choice it is of course good advice to stick with certified lubricants during the warranty period!

I put 20w PP in my 5.7...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
The MDS system uses oil under pressure. I will try and explain how it works in simple terms here( mainly because I am pretty simple myself
grin.gif
)...

When the computer wants to engage MDS( so actually disengage 4 cylinders )special solenoids that are located under the intake manifold( where they used to be anyway )open and allow a stream of high pressure oil to travel along special oil galleries to the lifters. The lifters have a special pin on them and also a special spring inside the lifter itself. The lifters sort of collapse when the high pressure shot of oil hits the pin. The internal spring keeps enough pressure on the pushrod so everything in the valve train stays in place BUT it doesn't allow enough lift to cause the rocker to pivot forcing the valve open. Keeps it all closed up but still all in contact. Basically that is how it works.

The MDS system is designed to work using oil under pressure and was designed to do so using a 20 weight oil. Lots of people claim oil weight does not effect the MDS system. I don't want to go down that road again and argue. IMO, Chrysler designed the MDS system using a 20 weight oil and specifically tell you in the Owner's Manual not to use other weights or damage may occur. So to me it is a no brainer to stick with a 20 weight oil.

Will other weights work fine with it? Lots of owners claim that but I just fall back on the mfg's warning. They designed and built the system so in this case I will defer to them. I never even had a notion to try and see if other weights worked in my 08 Ram 1500 that had the 5.7L and MDS frankly. 5W20 works fine in the 5.7L so there is no need to use anything else. Even if you are in an extremely hot climate you can just run synthetic.

I would also strongly advise against you using any thicker weight oils in your vehicle as it is new and under warranty. You have an engine noise issue you are unsure of so do not give the car mfg any out if it worsens and engine repairs are needed. Chrysler is a stickler for following their maintenance requirements. IF you go in with an internal engine issue the 1st thing they will do once diagnosing the issue, before they do any warranty work, is to verify proper maintenance was performed and specifically oil changes.

They will see if the work was done at the dealer 1st. If the dealer has records of the correct # of OC's for your mileage/age of vehicle that takes care of it. If not they will require proof of OC's from you. They will want receipts showing what was done at an indy shop OR that you purchased enough oil and filters to cover your mileage/vehicle age. They will also check your receipts to make sure you used the right oil( 5W20, API Certified w/ Starburst, meets Chrysler MS6395 )and filter( by application ). If you can't provide the documentation they want you are SOL barring winning a long legal battle.

Even if it is a hard part failure( failed lifter or bent valve for instance ), and not the fault of the oil used, if you didn't do proper maintenance Chrysler( or any car mfg )will immediately jump on your failure to try and get out of fixing it. You might win in court but you will end up there to get it fixed under warranty almost for sure.

Just my opinion. I strongly urge you NOT to use anything but 5W20 that meets all of your warranty needs. Once warranty is out go ahead and run what you want. Until then, and especially with a vehicle making engine noises, do not deviate from the Owner's manual for oil weight, ratings, and change interval. Always use the correct filter by application as well( in other words don't use oversized filters - get the right one, from the brand you want, for your vehicle ). Even using a non MOPAR filter, with engine noise issues, can lead to warranty hassle as Chrysler will probably blame it or at least try.

I worked dealer service before and this is the best advice I can give you in your situation. Hope it helps.


Absolutely outstanding explanation of how the MDS system uses oil to work properly. It tracks exactly with other (less clear) explanations I have seen. Your advice is sound and you can be sure my Challenger and Ram will get nothing but the highest quality 5W-20 oil as long as I own them. I am leaning towards using PP Ultra unless you think there is a better choice.

One more question. Do you think the ADBV on the factory filter may be contributing to the start up noise after the car sits idle for a couple of days? If so, what filter would you recommend that has the best ADBV available?

Thanks again for your post.

Dave


PU would be a good choice as it is a quality oil and meets all of your warranty requirements. Pennzoil/Shell supply the factory oils for Chrysler now as well so you are using the house brand so to speak. I have heard PU is hard to find in some areas though. PP is usually more readily available if Pennzoil is your preferred brand and could be used when/if you can't find the PU. RP API or Kendall GT1 would be my other choices/suggestions.

It is possible the ADBV in the factory filter is bad. You can always try another one and see. Just swap it out then top off the oil. If it goes away then you know the filter was bad. If not you can try another filter brand, or filter brand/oil combo, and see if it helps.

Like oil, oil filters are a personal choice based on many factors such as cost, brand loyalty/experience, etc... In my experience and in my opinion I would say look at these filter choices...

Cost Irrelevant:
RP #20-820
Purolator Synthetic #PSL24651
Wix XP #57899XP
Napa Platinum #PFL 47899( same thing as a Wix XP )
Bosch Distance Plus #D3410
M1 #M1-210
Amsoil #EAO11

Cost Matters:
Wix #57899
Napa Gold # 7899( same thing as a Wix )
Bosch #3410
Motorcraft #FL820S
MOPAR #MO-899
Baldwin #B329
Hastings #LF110
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
The MDS system uses oil under pressure. I will try and explain how it works in simple terms here( mainly because I am pretty simple myself
grin.gif
)...

When the computer wants to engage MDS( so actually disengage 4 cylinders )special solenoids that are located under the intake manifold( where they used to be anyway )open and allow a stream of high pressure oil to travel along special oil galleries to the lifters. The lifters have a special pin on them and also a special spring inside the lifter itself. The lifters sort of collapse when the high pressure shot of oil hits the pin. The internal spring keeps enough pressure on the pushrod so everything in the valve train stays in place BUT it doesn't allow enough lift to cause the rocker to pivot forcing the valve open. Keeps it all closed up but still all in contact. Basically that is how it works.

The MDS system is designed to work using oil under pressure and was designed to do so using a 20 weight oil. Lots of people claim oil weight does not effect the MDS system. I don't want to go down that road again and argue. IMO, Chrysler designed the MDS system using a 20 weight oil and specifically tell you in the Owner's Manual not to use other weights or damage may occur. So to me it is a no brainer to stick with a 20 weight oil.

Will other weights work fine with it? Lots of owners claim that but I just fall back on the mfg's warning. They designed and built the system so in this case I will defer to them. I never even had a notion to try and see if other weights worked in my 08 Ram 1500 that had the 5.7L and MDS frankly. 5W20 works fine in the 5.7L so there is no need to use anything else. Even if you are in an extremely hot climate you can just run synthetic.

I would also strongly advise against you using any thicker weight oils in your vehicle as it is new and under warranty. You have an engine noise issue you are unsure of so do not give the car mfg any out if it worsens and engine repairs are needed. Chrysler is a stickler for following their maintenance requirements. IF you go in with an internal engine issue the 1st thing they will do once diagnosing the issue, before they do any warranty work, is to verify proper maintenance was performed and specifically oil changes.

They will see if the work was done at the dealer 1st. If the dealer has records of the correct # of OC's for your mileage/age of vehicle that takes care of it. If not they will require proof of OC's from you. They will want receipts showing what was done at an indy shop OR that you purchased enough oil and filters to cover your mileage/vehicle age. They will also check your receipts to make sure you used the right oil( 5W20, API Certified w/ Starburst, meets Chrysler MS6395 )and filter( by application ). If you can't provide the documentation they want you are SOL barring winning a long legal battle.

Even if it is a hard part failure( failed lifter or bent valve for instance ), and not the fault of the oil used, if you didn't do proper maintenance Chrysler( or any car mfg )will immediately jump on your failure to try and get out of fixing it. You might win in court but you will end up there to get it fixed under warranty almost for sure.

Just my opinion. I strongly urge you NOT to use anything but 5W20 that meets all of your warranty needs. Once warranty is out go ahead and run what you want. Until then, and especially with a vehicle making engine noises, do not deviate from the Owner's manual for oil weight, ratings, and change interval. Always use the correct filter by application as well( in other words don't use oversized filters - get the right one, from the brand you want, for your vehicle ). Even using a non MOPAR filter, with engine noise issues, can lead to warranty hassle as Chrysler will probably blame it or at least try.

I worked dealer service before and this is the best advice I can give you in your situation. Hope it helps.


Absolutely outstanding explanation of how the MDS system uses oil to work properly. It tracks exactly with other (less clear) explanations I have seen. Your advice is sound and you can be sure my Challenger and Ram will get nothing but the highest quality 5W-20 oil as long as I own them. I am leaning towards using PP Ultra unless you think there is a better choice.

One more question. Do you think the ADBV on the factory filter may be contributing to the start up noise after the car sits idle for a couple of days? If so, what filter would you recommend that has the best ADBV available?

Thanks again for your post.

Dave


PU would be a good choice as it is a quality oil and meets all of your warranty requirements. Pennzoil/Shell supply the factory oils for Chrysler now as well so you are using the house brand so to speak. I have heard PU is hard to find in some areas though. PP is usually more readily available if Pennzoil is your preferred brand and could be used when/if you can't find the PU. RP API or Kendall GT1 would be my other choices/suggestions.

It is possible the ADBV in the factory filter is bad. You can always try another one and see. Just swap it out then top off the oil. If it goes away then you know the filter was bad. If not you can try another filter brand, or filter brand/oil combo, and see if it helps.

Like oil, oil filters are a personal choice based on many factors such as cost, brand loyalty/experience, etc... In my experience and in my opinion I would say look at these filter choices...

Cost Irrelevant:
RP #20-820
Purolator Synthetic #PSL24651
Wix XP #57899XP
Napa Platinum #PFL 47899( same thing as a Wix XP )
Bosch Distance Plus #D3410
M1 #M1-210
Amsoil #EAO11

Cost Matters:
Wix #57899
Napa Gold # 7899( same thing as a Wix )
Bosch #3410
Motorcraft #FL820S
MOPAR #MO-899
Baldwin #B329
Hastings #LF110



Again, great advice.

I will try another MO-899 first and go from there. If that does not work then I will try another filter. Price is irrelevant. I never believed that cutting corners on oil and filters was a good idea.

Thanks again for all your help.

Dave
 
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: SilverSnake
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
The MDS system uses oil under pressure. I will try and explain how it works in simple terms here( mainly because I am pretty simple myself
grin.gif
)...

When the computer wants to engage MDS( so actually disengage 4 cylinders )special solenoids that are located under the intake manifold( where they used to be anyway )open and allow a stream of high pressure oil to travel along special oil galleries to the lifters. The lifters have a special pin on them and also a special spring inside the lifter itself. The lifters sort of collapse when the high pressure shot of oil hits the pin. The internal spring keeps enough pressure on the pushrod so everything in the valve train stays in place BUT it doesn't allow enough lift to cause the rocker to pivot forcing the valve open. Keeps it all closed up but still all in contact. Basically that is how it works.

The MDS system is designed to work using oil under pressure and was designed to do so using a 20 weight oil. Lots of people claim oil weight does not effect the MDS system. I don't want to go down that road again and argue. IMO, Chrysler designed the MDS system using a 20 weight oil and specifically tell you in the Owner's Manual not to use other weights or damage may occur. So to me it is a no brainer to stick with a 20 weight oil.

Will other weights work fine with it? Lots of owners claim that but I just fall back on the mfg's warning. They designed and built the system so in this case I will defer to them. I never even had a notion to try and see if other weights worked in my 08 Ram 1500 that had the 5.7L and MDS frankly. 5W20 works fine in the 5.7L so there is no need to use anything else. Even if you are in an extremely hot climate you can just run synthetic.

I would also strongly advise against you using any thicker weight oils in your vehicle as it is new and under warranty. You have an engine noise issue you are unsure of so do not give the car mfg any out if it worsens and engine repairs are needed. Chrysler is a stickler for following their maintenance requirements. IF you go in with an internal engine issue the 1st thing they will do once diagnosing the issue, before they do any warranty work, is to verify proper maintenance was performed and specifically oil changes.

They will see if the work was done at the dealer 1st. If the dealer has records of the correct # of OC's for your mileage/age of vehicle that takes care of it. If not they will require proof of OC's from you. They will want receipts showing what was done at an indy shop OR that you purchased enough oil and filters to cover your mileage/vehicle age. They will also check your receipts to make sure you used the right oil( 5W20, API Certified w/ Starburst, meets Chrysler MS6395 )and filter( by application ). If you can't provide the documentation they want you are SOL barring winning a long legal battle.

Even if it is a hard part failure( failed lifter or bent valve for instance ), and not the fault of the oil used, if you didn't do proper maintenance Chrysler( or any car mfg )will immediately jump on your failure to try and get out of fixing it. You might win in court but you will end up there to get it fixed under warranty almost for sure.

Just my opinion. I strongly urge you NOT to use anything but 5W20 that meets all of your warranty needs. Once warranty is out go ahead and run what you want. Until then, and especially with a vehicle making engine noises, do not deviate from the Owner's manual for oil weight, ratings, and change interval. Always use the correct filter by application as well( in other words don't use oversized filters - get the right one, from the brand you want, for your vehicle ). Even using a non MOPAR filter, with engine noise issues, can lead to warranty hassle as Chrysler will probably blame it or at least try.

I worked dealer service before and this is the best advice I can give you in your situation. Hope it helps.


Absolutely outstanding explanation of how the MDS system uses oil to work properly. It tracks exactly with other (less clear) explanations I have seen. Your advice is sound and you can be sure my Challenger and Ram will get nothing but the highest quality 5W-20 oil as long as I own them. I am leaning towards using PP Ultra unless you think there is a better choice.

One more question. Do you think the ADBV on the factory filter may be contributing to the start up noise after the car sits idle for a couple of days? If so, what filter would you recommend that has the best ADBV available?

Thanks again for your post.

Dave


PU would be a good choice as it is a quality oil and meets all of your warranty requirements. Pennzoil/Shell supply the factory oils for Chrysler now as well so you are using the house brand so to speak. I have heard PU is hard to find in some areas though. PP is usually more readily available if Pennzoil is your preferred brand and could be used when/if you can't find the PU. RP API or Kendall GT1 would be my other choices/suggestions.

It is possible the ADBV in the factory filter is bad. You can always try another one and see. Just swap it out then top off the oil. If it goes away then you know the filter was bad. If not you can try another filter brand, or filter brand/oil combo, and see if it helps.

Like oil, oil filters are a personal choice based on many factors such as cost, brand loyalty/experience, etc... In my experience and in my opinion I would say look at these filter choices...

Cost Irrelevant:
RP #20-820
Purolator Synthetic #PSL24651
Wix XP #57899XP
Napa Platinum #PFL 47899( same thing as a Wix XP )
Bosch Distance Plus #D3410
M1 #M1-210
Amsoil #EAO11

Cost Matters:
Wix #57899
Napa Gold # 7899( same thing as a Wix )
Bosch #3410
Motorcraft #FL820S
MOPAR #MO-899
Baldwin #B329
Hastings #LF110



Again, great advice.

I will try another MO-899 first and go from there. If that does not work then I will try another filter. Price is irrelevant. I never believed that cutting corners on oil and filters was a good idea.

Thanks again for all your help.

Dave


"Price is irrelevant. I never believed that cutting corners on oil and filters was a good idea."

Me either but be careful saying that too much around here( BITOG ). Tends to send the local natives off the reservation and onto the warpath so to speak.
27.gif


Glad I could help. Good luck with your issue.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

"Price is irrelevant. I never believed that cutting corners on oil and filters was a good idea."

Me either but be careful saying that too much around here( BITOG ). Tends to send the local natives off the reservation and onto the warpath so to speak.
27.gif



Amen!
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI

"Price is irrelevant. I never believed that cutting corners on oil and filters was a good idea."

Me either but be careful saying that too much around here( BITOG ). Tends to send the local natives off the reservation and onto the warpath so to speak.

Well, I think the warpath starts when people go a little crazy and state that their use of a fancy boutique for 3,000 miles on their Chevy small block of 165 hp (or a similarly modest engine) is going to make it last much longer than any other specified oil, or that it's going to gain them a couple dozen horses or something. People are free to spend what they want, but they don't need to justify what they do in a strange way.

I have used (and will again use) RP. That's because I'm an RP fan (and the pricing is competitive with other synthetics up here). It's not a wonder drug for my engine, though.
 
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI


"Price is irrelevant. I never believed that cutting corners on oil and filters was a good idea."

Me either but be careful saying that too much around here( BITOG ). Tends to send the local natives off the reservation and onto the warpath so to speak.
27.gif


Glad I could help. Good luck with your issue.


Understand. People go on the warpath for strange reasons. That is why the world is such a mess. I was a member of a couple of Shelby GT500 forums for years. Some of the members would spend almost $70K on their cars and then complain and argue about the cost of an oil change. Never made any sense to me but what do I know?

Again, I appreciate all your help.

Dave
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: InhalingBullets
Dave,

Welcome aboard! While I have no experience with the HEMI itself, we have several hundred Dodge- V6 Pentastars in our fleet and they all do the exact same thing.


The Pentastar is more prone to it because it has a top-mounted cartridge filter. I usually find the filter chamber empty when I do an oil change on our Pentastar.

The Hemi has a dome-down spin-on filter, so you might be led to think that ADBV doesn't matter... but it still does. A good ADBV in the filter will prevent not only the filter from draining (which it can't in this case...) but also keep oil from draining back out of much of the engine's internal plumbing.

For the OP: I'd recommend changing the factory filter early, if not just doing an early oil change. I'm partial to synthetic-media filters like Royal Purple, Fram Ultra, and Puorolator Sythetic, and have had no start-up noise issues on my 6.4 Hemi at all. Including a recent 2-week sit while I was on travel- fired right up with no noise at all.

And remember- the noise really isn't harmful so much as irritating. Its mostly due to the lifters not being fully filled and there being more clearance in the valve train- all the parts are still protected by an oil film for the couple of seconds it takes for pressure to build.
 
Originally Posted By: drfeelgood
To others who have or have owned Hemis:
My 2010 Jeep Hemi 5.7 has from day one had a tick that sounds like an exhaust leak, best heard with driver window down, with acceleration.
No difference in 4 yrs, 35000 miles and multiple types of oil and filters. Dealer claims no exhaust leak found.
Should I just accept this as the "Hemi tick"?


I have a vague recollection that there is actually a TSB or Star Bulletin out now for correcting the "hemi tick" (which is not the OP's problem). Its a clearance issue on one or more rocker arms. You might prowl some of the forums (Challengertalk.com and Jeepforums.com are good ones) to confirm. Not all dealers are equally up to scratch on knowing about the latest TSBs and Star Bulletins (especially Star Bulletins, it seems...)
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum


For the OP: I'd recommend changing the factory filter early, if not just doing an early oil change. I'm partial to synthetic-media filters like Royal Purple, Fram Ultra, and Puorolator Sythetic, and have had no start-up noise issues on my 6.4 Hemi at all. Including a recent 2-week sit while I was on travel- fired right up with no noise at all.


Thanks 440 Magnum. I plan to change out the factory oil and filter before it I get 1K miles on the car. I will probably be going with the Purolater Filter and PU oil. Not entirely sure yet. Still evaluating all the good advice I am getting on this site.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top