toyota 86 oil question
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wemay
Site Donor 2023
Track the car once out of warranty - 10w60 or whatever else you'd like.
If under warranty and you'd like to keep it that way, (no track days) - 0w20 or 5w30
Simple
If under warranty and you'd like to keep it that way, (no track days) - 0w20 or 5w30
Simple
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Trav
Please explain Toyota's own document away. Are their engineers clueless and we should accept your opinion over what Toyota themselves publish for operating in these exact condition?
And what document is that you're referring to, that I'm sure you're misinterpreting?
The point that just doesn't seem to want to sink in, is that the recommended oil grade is 0W-20. There no warranty requirement to use anything heavier. And here in NA good luck getting permission to use anything heavier.
Incorrect. The recommendation is to run a 0W-20 or if running under high speed or high load a thicker weight is recommended.
You're close but that not exactly what it says in the drivers handbook.
This actually comes up a lot on BITOG with Toyota and other makes since the 20 grade has been almost universally adopted.
What you're referring to is the standard disclaimer that's in even the Prius handbook. It doesn't say a heavier grade "is recommended" but rather "may be more suitable".
The important point is that running a heavier grade is not mandated and therefore not required to satisfy the viscosity requirement of the engine. As Doug Hillary pointed out, it's the warranty that tell you that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil grade you need use. Period.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Trav
Please explain Toyota's own document away. Are their engineers clueless and we should accept your opinion over what Toyota themselves publish for operating in these exact condition?
And what document is that you're referring to, that I'm sure you're misinterpreting?
The point that just doesn't seem to want to sink in, is that the recommended oil grade is 0W-20. There no warranty requirement to use anything heavier. And here in NA good luck getting permission to use anything heavier.
Incorrect. The recommendation is to run a 0W-20 or if running under high speed or high load a thicker weight is recommended.
You're close but that not exactly what it says in the drivers handbook.
This actually comes up a lot on BITOG with Toyota and other makes since the 20 grade has been almost universally adopted.
What you're referring to is the standard disclaimer that's in even the Prius handbook. It doesn't say a heavier grade "is recommended" but rather "may be more suitable".
The important point is that running a heavier grade is not mandated and therefore not required to satisfy the viscosity requirement of the engine. As Doug Hillary pointed out, it's the warranty that tell you that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil grade you need use. Period.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
"...heavier grade may be more suitable".
In this case...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/suitable
'capable/qualified/able/accomplished...'
"...heavier grade may be more suitable".
In this case...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/suitable
'capable/qualified/able/accomplished...'
You just don't read all do you? You are fixated on this stuff to the point that documents from the company itself have become irrelevant to your opinion and the dispensing of advice that could cost the owner thousands of dollars.
Forget the warranty man, there is no warranty when you track the car, it gone.
The 0w20 might be just fine for the street in most places but not on the track.
You have brought it down to this. Do we believe Toyota (not me, i didn't write it) or a guy on a forum who has zero accountability for the advice he is dispensing?
Its like this, we all make mistakes. The only guy didn't died a couple of thousand years ago. Not a big deal if you admit it.
Whats wrong with just saying due to the facts presented which i haven't seen before it seems Toyota has a different opinion and its better to follow their recommendation because they built the car?
Forget the warranty man, there is no warranty when you track the car, it gone.
The 0w20 might be just fine for the street in most places but not on the track.
You have brought it down to this. Do we believe Toyota (not me, i didn't write it) or a guy on a forum who has zero accountability for the advice he is dispensing?
Its like this, we all make mistakes. The only guy didn't died a couple of thousand years ago. Not a big deal if you admit it.
Whats wrong with just saying due to the facts presented which i haven't seen before it seems Toyota has a different opinion and its better to follow their recommendation because they built the car?
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Yes I have read a number of threads concerning tracking a stock Toyota 86 in which the oil temperature can get very high, up to 266F was observed in one case I read before they decided to stop and not test any more. No ECU timing was pulled up to this point. The only references I could find to ECU nannies taking over was at high load, but not specifically to high oil temps (i.e. at sustained high loads the ECU pulled timing when the oil was not hot but that the oil could get very hot and timing was not pulled).
Therefore to me the manufacturers recommendation for a stock vehicle makes perfect sense that to run at sustained high temps to run a thicker oil.
You have confirmed this by suggestion to install a oil cooler thereby concluding that a 0W-20 is not sufficient, that oil temps can get beyond the capability of the 0W-20. Instead of installing an oil cooler (which is not in the manual as a suggestion) the simple recommendation is to run a thicker oil.
I had not found a reference that the ECU pulls timing specifically due to high oil temp. Only sustained high load.
The thread you reference is not sufficient as the oil temps did not get that high according to other references as I mention (266F in one case).
Well according the member Tonystewart the engine does detune as he states below:
"This car is a DD, so far, the cars I received oil data from have seen track time. Yes data from ECU, using Ecutek. The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality"
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
My reference to an oil cooler should not in any way construe that a heavier than 0W-20 grade is required. On the first page of this thread this is what I said:
"And yes if you're going to be tracking the car I would install oil gauges. And yes an oil cooler has proven to be desirable to keep the oil temp's in check and avoid the ECU rolling back the power."
Yes I have read a number of threads concerning tracking a stock Toyota 86 in which the oil temperature can get very high, up to 266F was observed in one case I read before they decided to stop and not test any more. No ECU timing was pulled up to this point. The only references I could find to ECU nannies taking over was at high load, but not specifically to high oil temps (i.e. at sustained high loads the ECU pulled timing when the oil was not hot but that the oil could get very hot and timing was not pulled).
Therefore to me the manufacturers recommendation for a stock vehicle makes perfect sense that to run at sustained high temps to run a thicker oil.
You have confirmed this by suggestion to install a oil cooler thereby concluding that a 0W-20 is not sufficient, that oil temps can get beyond the capability of the 0W-20. Instead of installing an oil cooler (which is not in the manual as a suggestion) the simple recommendation is to run a thicker oil.
I had not found a reference that the ECU pulls timing specifically due to high oil temp. Only sustained high load.
The thread you reference is not sufficient as the oil temps did not get that high according to other references as I mention (266F in one case).
Well according the member Tonystewart the engine does detune as he states below:
"This car is a DD, so far, the cars I received oil data from have seen track time. Yes data from ECU, using Ecutek. The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality"
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
My reference to an oil cooler should not in any way construe that a heavier than 0W-20 grade is required. On the first page of this thread this is what I said:
"And yes if you're going to be tracking the car I would install oil gauges. And yes an oil cooler has proven to be desirable to keep the oil temp's in check and avoid the ECU rolling back the power."
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
"This car is a DD, so far, the cars I received oil data from have seen track time. Yes data from ECU, using Ecutek. The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality"
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
Speaking of tracking the car. Isn't that same warranty that has already determined that the 0W20 grade is the heaviest oil required also void if the car is tracked and you huff the engine?
"This car is a DD, so far, the cars I received oil data from have seen track time. Yes data from ECU, using Ecutek. The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality"
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
Speaking of tracking the car. Isn't that same warranty that has already determined that the 0W20 grade is the heaviest oil required also void if the car is tracked and you huff the engine?
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Yikes. This thread took a nasty turn since last I checked in. I wonder if we'll hear from the OP again.
And when did it turn nasty, after TRAV joined in. A guy with zero actual track day experience and has a serious problem maintaining his civility.
I agree we won't likely hear from the new member again.
Yikes. This thread took a nasty turn since last I checked in. I wonder if we'll hear from the OP again.
And when did it turn nasty, after TRAV joined in. A guy with zero actual track day experience and has a serious problem maintaining his civility.
I agree we won't likely hear from the new member again.
Nobody stated here that 0w20 oil is not suited for day to day driving, bot OP asked about tracking the car. Toyota 86 is not some road legal track queen like GT3 Porsche or M3 or something. It's just small 2 litre coupe like Mazda Miata and similar cars. In rich countries this cars are marketed to younger population who just want nice good looking coupe. Do you understand how hard this little engine needs to work on a track to give any speed ? Trav gave us a link from Germany where the same car prepared for tracking uses 10w60 oil.
What further evidence is needed here? I think that 5w40 A3 or C3 is bare minimum when taking Subaru boxer on a track.
What further evidence is needed here? I think that 5w40 A3 or C3 is bare minimum when taking Subaru boxer on a track.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
"This car is a DD, so far, the cars I received oil data from have seen track time. Yes data from ECU, using Ecutek. The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality"
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
Speaking of tracking the car. Isn't that same warranty that has already determined that the 0W20 grade is the heaviest oil required also void if the car is tracked and you huff the engine?
Contrary to your buddy's conclusion, taking part in track-day activities will not void your warranty. That's why they are usually called "driver education events". Any reference to "racing" is strictly forbidden by most clubs to keep things "legal" from an insurance standpoint.
It's amazing who you'll meet at track events particularly with high end makes like Porsche and Ferrari. The president of a major Canadian Insurance company is also a member of the Porsche Club and is actively involved in track day events with his 911 turbo. Years ago I was a corporate diner sitting at the same table and someone asked about his "racing" and was quickly corrected, it's not racing but driver training/education.
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
"This car is a DD, so far, the cars I received oil data from have seen track time. Yes data from ECU, using Ecutek. The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality"
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
Speaking of tracking the car. Isn't that same warranty that has already determined that the 0W20 grade is the heaviest oil required also void if the car is tracked and you huff the engine?
Contrary to your buddy's conclusion, taking part in track-day activities will not void your warranty. That's why they are usually called "driver education events". Any reference to "racing" is strictly forbidden by most clubs to keep things "legal" from an insurance standpoint.
It's amazing who you'll meet at track events particularly with high end makes like Porsche and Ferrari. The president of a major Canadian Insurance company is also a member of the Porsche Club and is actively involved in track day events with his 911 turbo. Years ago I was a corporate diner sitting at the same table and someone asked about his "racing" and was quickly corrected, it's not racing but driver training/education.
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
"This car is a DD, so far, the cars I received oil data from have seen track time. Yes data from ECU, using Ecutek. The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality"
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
Speaking of tracking the car. Isn't that same warranty that has already determined that the 0W20 grade is the heaviest oil required also void if the car is tracked and you huff the engine?
Contrary to your buddy's conclusion, taking part in track-day activities will not void your warranty. That's why they are usually called "driver education events". Any reference to "racing" is strictly forbidden by most clubs to keep things "legal" from an insurance standpoint.
It's amazing who you'll meet at track events particularly with high end makes like Porsche and Ferrari. The president of a major Canadian Insurance company is also a member of the Porsche Club and is actively involved in track day events with his 911 turbo. Years ago I was a corporate diner sitting at the same table and someone asked about his "racing" and was quickly corrected, it's not racing but driver training/education.
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
My "buddy's" advise regarding tracking the car is sound. I'd also be willing to bet an engine tear down would prove him and the others recommending a "thicker" lube right.
As far as insurance, that's your area of expertise. Will an average Joe's auto insurance policy cover a blown engine, if it wasn't caused by an accident? I don't think so, unless he has some real fancy coverage. OTOH if he crashes and wrecks the car and the engine, and has full coverage the engine will be covered because he crashed.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
"This car is a DD, so far, the cars I received oil data from have seen track time. Yes data from ECU, using Ecutek. The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality"
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
Speaking of tracking the car. Isn't that same warranty that has already determined that the 0W20 grade is the heaviest oil required also void if the car is tracked and you huff the engine?
Contrary to your buddy's conclusion, taking part in track-day activities will not void your warranty. That's why they are usually called "driver education events". Any reference to "racing" is strictly forbidden by most clubs to keep things "legal" from an insurance standpoint.
It's amazing who you'll meet at track events particularly with high end makes like Porsche and Ferrari. The president of a major Canadian Insurance company is also a member of the Porsche Club and is actively involved in track day events with his 911 turbo. Years ago I was a corporate diner sitting at the same table and someone asked about his "racing" and was quickly corrected, it's not racing but driver training/education.
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
My "buddy's" advise regarding tracking the car is sound. I'd also be willing to bet an engine tear down would prove him and the others recommending a "thicker" lube right.
As far as insurance, that's your area of expertise. Will an average Joe's auto insurance policy cover a blown engine, if it wasn't caused by an accident? I don't think so, unless he has some real fancy coverage. OTOH if he crashes and wrecks the car and the engine, and has full coverage the engine will be covered because he crashed.
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Nobody stated here that 0w20 oil is not suited for day to day driving, bot OP asked about tracking the car. Toyota 86 is not some road legal track queen like GT3 Porsche or M3 or something. It's just small 2 litre coupe like Mazda Miata and similar cars. In rich countries this cars are marketed to younger population who just want nice good looking coupe. Do you understand how hard this little engine needs to work on a track to give any speed ? Trav gave us a link from Germany where the same car prepared for tracking uses 10w60 oil.
What further evidence is needed here? I think that 5w40 A3 or C3 is bare minimum when taking Subaru boxer on a track.
What you don't seem to understand that I tried to explain to you before is that what's spec'd for out and out racing is usually totally unsuitable for typical track day activities.
For a typical track day you've got five to six 20-25 minute track sessions. Even on the spec' 0W-20, when you're session comes up your engine is inevitably cold. You'll idle it for a few minutes but once you're on the track neither your coolant or oil are anywhere near up to temperature. You'll take it easy for the first lap but that's nowhere near long enough to get you're coolant let alone oil up to temperature and then it's maximum rev's regardless. On a hot day your oil may get up to low normal operating temp's about half way through the session. At the end of the session you may see oil temp's higher than what you would normally see on the street. It would only be during an open lapping session where you can stay on the track for a very long time that oil temp's would have a chance to climb very high.
If it's a cool day at the track you're constantly dealing with the problem of oil that's too cold and therefore too thick way more often than oil that's too hot. And yes we do get newbies coming to the track with ridiculously heavy 50 and 60 grade oils because they read somewhere that's what's used in racing and it can be a disaster.
My track car is spec'd for 5W-50 and yes in the UK 10W-60 is used in some outright racing events. But I have learned from experience as have other owners of the same model, that the spec' oil is simply WAY too heavy for street use and the type of track activities we get involved; hence we don't run anything heavier than a 30 grade and I've found a 0W-20 to be best.
Nobody stated here that 0w20 oil is not suited for day to day driving, bot OP asked about tracking the car. Toyota 86 is not some road legal track queen like GT3 Porsche or M3 or something. It's just small 2 litre coupe like Mazda Miata and similar cars. In rich countries this cars are marketed to younger population who just want nice good looking coupe. Do you understand how hard this little engine needs to work on a track to give any speed ? Trav gave us a link from Germany where the same car prepared for tracking uses 10w60 oil.
What further evidence is needed here? I think that 5w40 A3 or C3 is bare minimum when taking Subaru boxer on a track.
What you don't seem to understand that I tried to explain to you before is that what's spec'd for out and out racing is usually totally unsuitable for typical track day activities.
For a typical track day you've got five to six 20-25 minute track sessions. Even on the spec' 0W-20, when you're session comes up your engine is inevitably cold. You'll idle it for a few minutes but once you're on the track neither your coolant or oil are anywhere near up to temperature. You'll take it easy for the first lap but that's nowhere near long enough to get you're coolant let alone oil up to temperature and then it's maximum rev's regardless. On a hot day your oil may get up to low normal operating temp's about half way through the session. At the end of the session you may see oil temp's higher than what you would normally see on the street. It would only be during an open lapping session where you can stay on the track for a very long time that oil temp's would have a chance to climb very high.
If it's a cool day at the track you're constantly dealing with the problem of oil that's too cold and therefore too thick way more often than oil that's too hot. And yes we do get newbies coming to the track with ridiculously heavy 50 and 60 grade oils because they read somewhere that's what's used in racing and it can be a disaster.
My track car is spec'd for 5W-50 and yes in the UK 10W-60 is used in some outright racing events. But I have learned from experience as have other owners of the same model, that the spec' oil is simply WAY too heavy for street use and the type of track activities we get involved; hence we don't run anything heavier than a 30 grade and I've found a 0W-20 to be best.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
"This car is a DD, so far, the cars I received oil data from have seen track time. Yes data from ECU, using Ecutek. The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality"
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
Speaking of tracking the car. Isn't that same warranty that has already determined that the 0W20 grade is the heaviest oil required also void if the car is tracked and you huff the engine?
Contrary to your buddy's conclusion, taking part in track-day activities will not void your warranty. That's why they are usually called "driver education events". Any reference to "racing" is strictly forbidden by most clubs to keep things "legal" from an insurance standpoint.
It's amazing who you'll meet at track events particularly with high end makes like Porsche and Ferrari. The president of a major Canadian Insurance company is also a member of the Porsche Club and is actively involved in track day events with his 911 turbo. Years ago I was a corporate diner sitting at the same table and someone asked about his "racing" and was quickly corrected, it's not racing but driver training/education.
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
My "buddy's" advise regarding tracking the car is sound. I'd also be willing to bet an engine tear down would prove him and the others recommending a "thicker" lube right.
As far as insurance, that's your area of expertise. Will an average Joe's auto insurance policy cover a blown engine, if it wasn't caused by an accident? I don't think so, unless he has some real fancy coverage. OTOH if he crashes and wrecks the car and the engine, and has full coverage the engine will be covered because he crashed.
Why do I even bother, the subject matter is clearly beyond your capacity to comprehend. Your and you friend don't take part in track days so what do you think you can contribute to this thread?
Insurance is to cover the collision damage.
Broken engines is covered by the warranty.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
"This car is a DD, so far, the cars I received oil data from have seen track time. Yes data from ECU, using Ecutek. The engine doesn't detune anymore since the addition of the oil cooler. Watching an ECU cut power due to high oil temp on FA20 is a reality"
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
Speaking of tracking the car. Isn't that same warranty that has already determined that the 0W20 grade is the heaviest oil required also void if the car is tracked and you huff the engine?
Contrary to your buddy's conclusion, taking part in track-day activities will not void your warranty. That's why they are usually called "driver education events". Any reference to "racing" is strictly forbidden by most clubs to keep things "legal" from an insurance standpoint.
It's amazing who you'll meet at track events particularly with high end makes like Porsche and Ferrari. The president of a major Canadian Insurance company is also a member of the Porsche Club and is actively involved in track day events with his 911 turbo. Years ago I was a corporate diner sitting at the same table and someone asked about his "racing" and was quickly corrected, it's not racing but driver training/education.
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
My "buddy's" advise regarding tracking the car is sound. I'd also be willing to bet an engine tear down would prove him and the others recommending a "thicker" lube right.
As far as insurance, that's your area of expertise. Will an average Joe's auto insurance policy cover a blown engine, if it wasn't caused by an accident? I don't think so, unless he has some real fancy coverage. OTOH if he crashes and wrecks the car and the engine, and has full coverage the engine will be covered because he crashed.
Why do I even bother, the subject matter is clearly beyond your capacity to comprehend. Your and you friend don't take part in track days so what do you think you can contribute to this thread?
Insurance is to cover the collision damage.
Broken engines is covered by the warranty.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
My reference to an oil cooler should not in any way construe that a heavier than 0W-20 grade is required. On the first page of this thread this is what I said:
"And yes if you're going to be tracking the car I would install oil gauges. And yes an oil cooler has proven to be desirable to keep the oil temp's in check and avoid the ECU rolling back the power."
OK, the warranty is void if you use heavier, as per your "good luck getting Toyota to agree to a heavier oil' (which they HAVE in Trav's ignored link).
How will Toyota go with the end user modifying the lubrication system to include a cooler ?
Surely in modifying te thing, your warranty is in jeopardy anyway, and far more obviously than running a 5W30 ?
As to the nannies...
http://blog.perrinperformance.com/brzfr-s-part-proving-all-bolt-ons-part-1/
5th 15 second dyno pull with a stock engine, 60 seconds between pulls, and the nannies start pulling power.
That's hardly rare, and probably flies in the face of your 25 minutes track times...yes they recommend a cooler (and test it in a later article)...
But good luck with your warranty.
As I've already mentioned it's the warranty that has already determined that the 0W-20 grade is the heaviest oil required.
My reference to an oil cooler should not in any way construe that a heavier than 0W-20 grade is required. On the first page of this thread this is what I said:
"And yes if you're going to be tracking the car I would install oil gauges. And yes an oil cooler has proven to be desirable to keep the oil temp's in check and avoid the ECU rolling back the power."
OK, the warranty is void if you use heavier, as per your "good luck getting Toyota to agree to a heavier oil' (which they HAVE in Trav's ignored link).
How will Toyota go with the end user modifying the lubrication system to include a cooler ?
Surely in modifying te thing, your warranty is in jeopardy anyway, and far more obviously than running a 5W30 ?
As to the nannies...
http://blog.perrinperformance.com/brzfr-s-part-proving-all-bolt-ons-part-1/
5th 15 second dyno pull with a stock engine, 60 seconds between pulls, and the nannies start pulling power.
That's hardly rare, and probably flies in the face of your 25 minutes track times...yes they recommend a cooler (and test it in a later article)...
But good luck with your warranty.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Why do I even bother, the subject matter is clearly beyond your capacity to comprehend. Your and you friend don't take part in track days so what do you think you can contribute to this thread?
Insurance is to cover the collision damage.
Broken engines is covered by the warranty.
My comprehension is just fine, maybe your writing skills are lacking today. For the record the warranty isn't covering engine damage from racing, and your auto policy isn't going to cover a blown engine.
Read what you wrote:
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
Crash it and you might get both covered.
How do you know Trav hasn't raced, or I haven't raced?
BTW Trav provided documentation, you provided an opinion.
Why do I even bother, the subject matter is clearly beyond your capacity to comprehend. Your and you friend don't take part in track days so what do you think you can contribute to this thread?
Insurance is to cover the collision damage.
Broken engines is covered by the warranty.
My comprehension is just fine, maybe your writing skills are lacking today. For the record the warranty isn't covering engine damage from racing, and your auto policy isn't going to cover a blown engine.
Read what you wrote:
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
Crash it and you might get both covered.
How do you know Trav hasn't raced, or I haven't raced?
BTW Trav provided documentation, you provided an opinion.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Contrary to your buddy's conclusion, taking part in track-day activities will not void your warranty. That's why they are usually called "driver education events". Any reference to "racing" is strictly forbidden by most clubs to keep things "legal" from an insurance standpoint.
I've got the most motorist friendly insurer in the country, and here's their definition...
Quote:
If you have comprehensive or third party legal liability
cover, you will be covered for third party legal liability
under this policy as a result of an accident during the
period of insurance that happens when you are using your
motor vehicle or motorcycle in a defensive driving course.
Defensive driving course means a paid professional
driver education and training course:
• solely teaching defensive driving skills;
• that is conducted under full time, direct professional
instruction and supervision;
• that is advertised as solely teaching defensive driving
skills; and
• that is offered for sale to members of the public on a
continuing basis.
A defensive driving course does not include a track day or
racing school.
https://www.shannons.com.au/library/documents/Motor_Insurance_PDS.pdf
Maybe your company is different, I hope that any policy holders here aren't being mislead...but geez, the premiums must be insane when a vehicle is put at risk like that.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
It's amazing who you'll meet at track events particularly with high end makes like Porsche and Ferrari. The president of a major Canadian Insurance company is also a member of the Porsche Club and is actively involved in track day events with his 911 turbo. Years ago I was a corporate diner sitting at the same table and someone asked about his "racing" and was quickly corrected, it's not racing but driver training/education.
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
Insurance companies in Oz have representatives at most car shows and track days...not to expedite the claims process, but to record vehicle condition and who kissed the wall.
Only intenet lore I guess
http://gt86.com.au/forum/f16/toyota-tmca-watching-careful-what-you-post-online-1557-print/
Contrary to your buddy's conclusion, taking part in track-day activities will not void your warranty. That's why they are usually called "driver education events". Any reference to "racing" is strictly forbidden by most clubs to keep things "legal" from an insurance standpoint.
I've got the most motorist friendly insurer in the country, and here's their definition...
Quote:
If you have comprehensive or third party legal liability
cover, you will be covered for third party legal liability
under this policy as a result of an accident during the
period of insurance that happens when you are using your
motor vehicle or motorcycle in a defensive driving course.
Defensive driving course means a paid professional
driver education and training course:
• solely teaching defensive driving skills;
• that is conducted under full time, direct professional
instruction and supervision;
• that is advertised as solely teaching defensive driving
skills; and
• that is offered for sale to members of the public on a
continuing basis.
A defensive driving course does not include a track day or
racing school.
https://www.shannons.com.au/library/documents/Motor_Insurance_PDS.pdf
Maybe your company is different, I hope that any policy holders here aren't being mislead...but geez, the premiums must be insane when a vehicle is put at risk like that.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
It's amazing who you'll meet at track events particularly with high end makes like Porsche and Ferrari. The president of a major Canadian Insurance company is also a member of the Porsche Club and is actively involved in track day events with his 911 turbo. Years ago I was a corporate diner sitting at the same table and someone asked about his "racing" and was quickly corrected, it's not racing but driver training/education.
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
Insurance companies in Oz have representatives at most car shows and track days...not to expedite the claims process, but to record vehicle condition and who kissed the wall.
Only intenet lore I guess
http://gt86.com.au/forum/f16/toyota-tmca-watching-careful-what-you-post-online-1557-print/
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Yikes. This thread took a nasty turn since last I checked in. I wonder if we'll hear from the OP again.
And when did it turn nasty, after TRAV joined in. A guy with zero actual track day experience and has a serious problem maintaining his civility.
I agree we won't likely hear from the new member again.
I have not been uncivil to you in any way, if i were uncivil you would certainly know it.
How do you know i have zero track experience? Just another mindless comment. LOL
With 42 years of experience and over 8 years education in this business i have a pretty good grasp on whats going on inside an engine at high RPM.
I provided proof, you provided nothing, nothing at all only your opinion. When someone doesn't agree and calls you out this is how you get.
Blaming me for disrupting the thread is a pretty pathetic last ditch effort at saving some face.
Come on Caterham, proof, lets see some real proof. Your opinions are just that an opinion. That a two bucks will get you coffee.
I know you have nothing, zero to back up your claims yet you argue with me, Demarpaint, Shannow, and Overkill and a couple of other guys like we are all something beneath you (again dead wrong). Keep the oil of your goggles. LOL
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
Yikes. This thread took a nasty turn since last I checked in. I wonder if we'll hear from the OP again.
And when did it turn nasty, after TRAV joined in. A guy with zero actual track day experience and has a serious problem maintaining his civility.
I agree we won't likely hear from the new member again.
I have not been uncivil to you in any way, if i were uncivil you would certainly know it.
How do you know i have zero track experience? Just another mindless comment. LOL
With 42 years of experience and over 8 years education in this business i have a pretty good grasp on whats going on inside an engine at high RPM.
I provided proof, you provided nothing, nothing at all only your opinion. When someone doesn't agree and calls you out this is how you get.
Blaming me for disrupting the thread is a pretty pathetic last ditch effort at saving some face.
Come on Caterham, proof, lets see some real proof. Your opinions are just that an opinion. That a two bucks will get you coffee.
I know you have nothing, zero to back up your claims yet you argue with me, Demarpaint, Shannow, and Overkill and a couple of other guys like we are all something beneath you (again dead wrong). Keep the oil of your goggles. LOL
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Contrary to your buddy's conclusion, taking part in track-day activities will not void your warranty. That's why they are usually called "driver education events". Any reference to "racing" is strictly forbidden by most clubs to keep things "legal" from an insurance standpoint.
I've got the most motorist friendly insurer in the country, and here's their definition...
Quote:
If you have comprehensive or third party legal liability
cover, you will be covered for third party legal liability
under this policy as a result of an accident during the
period of insurance that happens when you are using your
motor vehicle or motorcycle in a defensive driving course.
Defensive driving course means a paid professional
driver education and training course:
• solely teaching defensive driving skills;
• that is conducted under full time, direct professional
instruction and supervision;
• that is advertised as solely teaching defensive driving
skills; and
• that is offered for sale to members of the public on a
continuing basis.
A defensive driving course does not include a track day or
racing school.
https://www.shannons.com.au/library/documents/Motor_Insurance_PDS.pdf
Maybe your company is different, I hope that any policy holders here aren't being mislead...but geez, the premiums must be insane when a vehicle is put at risk like that.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
It's amazing who you'll meet at track events particularly with high end makes like Porsche and Ferrari. The president of a major Canadian Insurance company is also a member of the Porsche Club and is actively involved in track day events with his 911 turbo. Years ago I was a corporate diner sitting at the same table and someone asked about his "racing" and was quickly corrected, it's not racing but driver training/education.
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
Insurance companies in Oz have representatives at most car shows and track days...not to expedite the claims process, but to record vehicle condition and who kissed the wall.
Only intenet lore I guess
http://gt86.com.au/forum/f16/toyota-tmca-watching-careful-what-you-post-online-1557-print/
The insurance subject was intended as an aside, but it seems irrational FEAR, paranoia and fear mongering generally is a common theme with so many stalwarts on BITOG about practically everything it seems.
I guess it goes with the territory if some is concerned about a few ppms of wear metals in a UOA.
Fear of "spies" at a track day event....please.
It is not difficult making a collision claim due to a track mishap and I have counseled a few track friends over the years on the process but they are an "at fault claim" that may affect one's insurance premiums. Obviously there are a few red flags that one should avoid in the process. I know first hand of brand new Porsches that have been totalled at the track that have been covered. A late model Elise that was totaled this past summer at an event in the States I was at that was covered.
Making warranty claims for engines damaged at the track is not uncommon even thou they are usually driver errors, such as over reving by catching the wrong gear on a downshift. And yes there is an element of dishonesty when making these claims but many are successfully made nonetheless.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Contrary to your buddy's conclusion, taking part in track-day activities will not void your warranty. That's why they are usually called "driver education events". Any reference to "racing" is strictly forbidden by most clubs to keep things "legal" from an insurance standpoint.
I've got the most motorist friendly insurer in the country, and here's their definition...
Quote:
If you have comprehensive or third party legal liability
cover, you will be covered for third party legal liability
under this policy as a result of an accident during the
period of insurance that happens when you are using your
motor vehicle or motorcycle in a defensive driving course.
Defensive driving course means a paid professional
driver education and training course:
• solely teaching defensive driving skills;
• that is conducted under full time, direct professional
instruction and supervision;
• that is advertised as solely teaching defensive driving
skills; and
• that is offered for sale to members of the public on a
continuing basis.
A defensive driving course does not include a track day or
racing school.
https://www.shannons.com.au/library/documents/Motor_Insurance_PDS.pdf
Maybe your company is different, I hope that any policy holders here aren't being mislead...but geez, the premiums must be insane when a vehicle is put at risk like that.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
It's amazing who you'll meet at track events particularly with high end makes like Porsche and Ferrari. The president of a major Canadian Insurance company is also a member of the Porsche Club and is actively involved in track day events with his 911 turbo. Years ago I was a corporate diner sitting at the same table and someone asked about his "racing" and was quickly corrected, it's not racing but driver training/education.
And yes cars are crashed and engines broken at track day events.
And Insurance still usually covers the collision damage as well as the warranty for engine damage.
Insurance companies in Oz have representatives at most car shows and track days...not to expedite the claims process, but to record vehicle condition and who kissed the wall.
Only intenet lore I guess
http://gt86.com.au/forum/f16/toyota-tmca-watching-careful-what-you-post-online-1557-print/
The insurance subject was intended as an aside, but it seems irrational FEAR, paranoia and fear mongering generally is a common theme with so many stalwarts on BITOG about practically everything it seems.
I guess it goes with the territory if some is concerned about a few ppms of wear metals in a UOA.
Fear of "spies" at a track day event....please.
It is not difficult making a collision claim due to a track mishap and I have counseled a few track friends over the years on the process but they are an "at fault claim" that may affect one's insurance premiums. Obviously there are a few red flags that one should avoid in the process. I know first hand of brand new Porsches that have been totalled at the track that have been covered. A late model Elise that was totaled this past summer at an event in the States I was at that was covered.
Making warranty claims for engines damaged at the track is not uncommon even thou they are usually driver errors, such as over reving by catching the wrong gear on a downshift. And yes there is an element of dishonesty when making these claims but many are successfully made nonetheless.
It sure is fun to watch somebody discuss "track days" with Susie Wolff's crew chief.
- Status