Did you replace them because they were bad, or was it a case of if its not broke....
Improper torque will you aide the best bearing to quickly fail.
Improper torque will you aide the best bearing to quickly fail.
What causes wheel bearing/hubs to fail?
- Thread starter Jimmy9190
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Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Maybe the hubs failed because my alignment was off for a while last year. My steering wheel was straight so I did not notice the alignment problem until I had some tire cupping problems. Last summer I got new tires and a lifetime alignment deal at Firestone so I should not have any problems like that now.
I would think that if alignment issues caused bearing failures, then bearing failures would be way more common.
Maybe the hubs failed because my alignment was off for a while last year. My steering wheel was straight so I did not notice the alignment problem until I had some tire cupping problems. Last summer I got new tires and a lifetime alignment deal at Firestone so I should not have any problems like that now.
I would think that if alignment issues caused bearing failures, then bearing failures would be way more common.
They must be torqued to spec or they don't last very long. Most people don't have torque wrenches that measure over 150 lbs so they guess. This leads to premature bearing failure
I torqued these new Moogs to 185 ft-lbs, which is the factory spec straight out of my Dodge Dakota Factory Service Manual. My 1/2" torque wrench is the clicker style and it has a range of 25 to 250 ft-lbs. I torqued those Duralast hubs to the same spec too and the one hub still bit the dust way too soon. I had a hunch the other one likely was not far behind so I replaced both for safety and peace of mind.
Originally Posted By: Jimmy9190
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
My folks had a Dakota and a Dakota-based (first-gen) Durango. over 200k miles on each and never lost a hub bearing. Was the original changed as a preventative, or did it actually fail?
I replaced the OEM Mopar hubs some time in 2010 or 2011. They were making a bad roaring howling sound like they were about to fail. That had to be around 125,000 or 130,000 miles. I used National brand hubs on that replacement. They lasted until November 2012 when one of them really started howling and was making real bad grinding noises on left turns. So that was when I put on the Duralast hubs. It happened in November a day or two before Thanksgiving and I was on my way out of town. I was short on both money and time.
The Duralast hubs barely lasted 18 months and maybe 15,000 miles. I would say the Drive Works brand would probably be about the same since they have the same part numbers and probably are made from the same parts in the same factory in China.
I learned my lesson today though. I really do miss quality American made and other First World parts.
I sure hope my Duralast hub on my Durango lasts longer than yours . Had to replace that one at 115K . Right side OEM only lasted to 88K , replaced with Masterpro from O'reilly in 09. Im surprised to see the Masterpro still going good still. Honestly not terribly concerned as I work at O'reillys and my cost for Masterpro hubs is 42 bucks.
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
My folks had a Dakota and a Dakota-based (first-gen) Durango. over 200k miles on each and never lost a hub bearing. Was the original changed as a preventative, or did it actually fail?
I replaced the OEM Mopar hubs some time in 2010 or 2011. They were making a bad roaring howling sound like they were about to fail. That had to be around 125,000 or 130,000 miles. I used National brand hubs on that replacement. They lasted until November 2012 when one of them really started howling and was making real bad grinding noises on left turns. So that was when I put on the Duralast hubs. It happened in November a day or two before Thanksgiving and I was on my way out of town. I was short on both money and time.
The Duralast hubs barely lasted 18 months and maybe 15,000 miles. I would say the Drive Works brand would probably be about the same since they have the same part numbers and probably are made from the same parts in the same factory in China.
I learned my lesson today though. I really do miss quality American made and other First World parts.
I sure hope my Duralast hub on my Durango lasts longer than yours . Had to replace that one at 115K . Right side OEM only lasted to 88K , replaced with Masterpro from O'reilly in 09. Im surprised to see the Masterpro still going good still. Honestly not terribly concerned as I work at O'reillys and my cost for Masterpro hubs is 42 bucks.
Discount hubs will only last 1 year, and it is because of cheap alloys, lousy heat treatment, and loose machining tolerances.
It is really upsetting to read that National brand has cheapened the design of their hubs. They changed the name to Moog recently, and just like recent Moog products, quality could be good, average, or poor.
It is really upsetting to read that National brand has cheapened the design of their hubs. They changed the name to Moog recently, and just like recent Moog products, quality could be good, average, or poor.
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Good bearings are not, and never have been easy nor cheap to make. FWD wheel hubs are in a relatively severe operating environment with environmental intrusion always a threat. They are subjected to sustained high-speed operation with frequent impact loading. All of this puts demands on the quality of construction.
X2. Good bearings are hard to find, and some applications are just hard on bearings. Even non-FWD hubs...for example 1/2 ton and up GM trucks eat hub assemblies like candy.
On one hand, I like "sealed" hub assemblies because replacement is simple. No packing grease or torquing a castle nut...just bolt on and go. But they do seem less reliable. My truck has 152K on the original wheel bearings (individual bearings, not a hub assembly) and they are doing fine. They have been repacked a total of two times in the truck's life. Unfortunately, I'll probably have a hard time beating or even matching 2002 OE quality when the time does come to replace them.
Moog parts are hit or miss, hub assemblies included. They tend to be better than white box China part quality a lot of the time, but they may not be made in the OE country of origin and likely not to the same quality standards. I have seen plenty of Moog hub assemblies made in Mexico or Korea. That's better than China, but still, uhh, widely sourced. I am not sure Moog is actually making hub assemblies, rather they are likely putting out specs for various global manufacturers to meet.
The good thing about Moog is you are likely to get a lifetime warranty. Despite their less than perfect quality track record, they are probably still one of the better choices.
Good bearings are not, and never have been easy nor cheap to make. FWD wheel hubs are in a relatively severe operating environment with environmental intrusion always a threat. They are subjected to sustained high-speed operation with frequent impact loading. All of this puts demands on the quality of construction.
X2. Good bearings are hard to find, and some applications are just hard on bearings. Even non-FWD hubs...for example 1/2 ton and up GM trucks eat hub assemblies like candy.
On one hand, I like "sealed" hub assemblies because replacement is simple. No packing grease or torquing a castle nut...just bolt on and go. But they do seem less reliable. My truck has 152K on the original wheel bearings (individual bearings, not a hub assembly) and they are doing fine. They have been repacked a total of two times in the truck's life. Unfortunately, I'll probably have a hard time beating or even matching 2002 OE quality when the time does come to replace them.
Moog parts are hit or miss, hub assemblies included. They tend to be better than white box China part quality a lot of the time, but they may not be made in the OE country of origin and likely not to the same quality standards. I have seen plenty of Moog hub assemblies made in Mexico or Korea. That's better than China, but still, uhh, widely sourced. I am not sure Moog is actually making hub assemblies, rather they are likely putting out specs for various global manufacturers to meet.
The good thing about Moog is you are likely to get a lifetime warranty. Despite their less than perfect quality track record, they are probably still one of the better choices.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Heck my original GM hub and bearing assembly had 110k on it before it failed, the other three are at 130k and still original and fine.
Two of the other three should be axle bearings, which generally never need to be replaced. The hub is the end of the axle shaft.
Heck my original GM hub and bearing assembly had 110k on it before it failed, the other three are at 130k and still original and fine.
Two of the other three should be axle bearings, which generally never need to be replaced. The hub is the end of the axle shaft.
Has anyone ever evaluated the lateral run-out on the cheap hub assemblies? That could be an issue also.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Heck my original GM hub and bearing assembly had 110k on it before it failed, the other three are at 130k and still original and fine.
Two of the other three should be axle bearings, which generally never need to be replaced. The hub is the end of the axle shaft.
Not on the front end of late model RWD trucks, you get one piece bolt on hub assemblies. On Ford's they cost a fortune because the brake discs are part of them.
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Heck my original GM hub and bearing assembly had 110k on it before it failed, the other three are at 130k and still original and fine.
Two of the other three should be axle bearings, which generally never need to be replaced. The hub is the end of the axle shaft.
Not on the front end of late model RWD trucks, you get one piece bolt on hub assemblies. On Ford's they cost a fortune because the brake discs are part of them.
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Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Two of the other three should be axle bearings, which generally never need to be replaced. The hub is the end of the axle shaft.
Not on the front end of late model RWD trucks, you get one piece bolt on hub assemblies. On Ford's they cost a fortune because the brake discs are part of them.
01Rangerx1 was referring to your two rear axle bearings. They are lubed the the gear oil in the axle and don't have Axial loads to contend with (assuming its a C-clip axle).
"my original GM hub and bearing assembly had 110k on it before it failed, the other three are at 130k" is a false statement, as you only have one other "hub and bearing assembly". Apples to oranges.
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Two of the other three should be axle bearings, which generally never need to be replaced. The hub is the end of the axle shaft.
Not on the front end of late model RWD trucks, you get one piece bolt on hub assemblies. On Ford's they cost a fortune because the brake discs are part of them.
01Rangerx1 was referring to your two rear axle bearings. They are lubed the the gear oil in the axle and don't have Axial loads to contend with (assuming its a C-clip axle).
"my original GM hub and bearing assembly had 110k on it before it failed, the other three are at 130k" is a false statement, as you only have one other "hub and bearing assembly". Apples to oranges.
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OMG minutia, I know that but the rear axle still rides on a set of bearings.
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Obligatory:
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
kschachn said:
Good luck finding a good bearing for an American car/truck. They are all junk. In a 01 f150 with 35" tires it's hard to find a good bearing. The brand does not matter anymore. All made or assembled in China.I have had Timken and National fail fairly quickly. The Oem bearings and surprisingly Master Pro from Oriellys have lasted the longest. The Timkens develop play (3 of them) and the National got a flat spot. It was stiff and clicking in a spot. Timken downgraded their warranty from 3 yrs to 1. That says something. I don't know what.
It is not installer error. Every bolt is cleaned and torqued to spec.
On another car I had 2 gmb bearings. 1 side lasted 1 month the other over 40k miles then it was sold. It's a shot in the dark.
The annoying part is European cars like my BMW still has high quality German bearings made in Germany avalible. Replace once and forget it.
It is not installer error. Every bolt is cleaned and torqued to spec.
On another car I had 2 gmb bearings. 1 side lasted 1 month the other over 40k miles then it was sold. It's a shot in the dark.
The annoying part is European cars like my BMW still has high quality German bearings made in Germany avalible. Replace once and forget it.
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Obligatory:
What brand is that? Is that label implying the chineese factories are now putting made in Japan on their parts to imply a better quality?
Obligatory:
What brand is that? Is that label implying the chineese factories are now putting made in Japan on their parts to imply a better quality?
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