Airstrikes in Syria.

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Originally Posted By: gman2304
A prominent Muslim would be able to convey the feelings of all peaceful non radical Muslims in a national/around the world format for condemnation, not just on an internet forum.


Well firstly there have been muslims denouncing the act including the local mosque. Perhaps their statements haven't reached or are chosen to be reported by the channels where you get your news.

Secondly, you called for an apology from a prominent muslim leader. An apology usually carries an association of guilt. I don't think an apology is the right expectation, no more than I would expect the Pop e or any other Christian leader to apologize for the Westboro Baptist Church.

Denouncing the crime, stressing that it is against their religious beliefs and praying for the victims seems like a good response.

Be careful of making moderate people guilty by association. When you do, it helps create a wedge between reasonable people.

Originally Posted By: gman2304
I've never seen a black buddhist or black rabbi traveling with the race card playing, oppurtunistic, race baiting, irreverend duo of Sharpton and Jackson


So you're now saying that black leaders should also apologize for the beheader's actions because they are black like him?

Or did you bring them in because you think there is also a racial element to the killing as well as a muslim element?
 
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: FXjohn


Anti govt types, survivalists, gun nuts and tea partiers have killed more than Islamists. agreed.
I'm calling you out. You are lying, plain and simple.

I am calling you a liar.


Violence carried out by far Right groups or individuals, which have racism as a central component of their ideology, is of similar magnitude to that of Jihadist violence. In the years 1990 to 2010, there were 145 acts of political violence committed by the American far Right, resulting in 348 deaths. By comparison, 20 Americans were killed over the same period in acts of political violence carried out by Muslim-American civilians.
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: FXjohn


Anti govt types, survivalists, gun nuts and tea partiers have killed more than Islamists. agreed.
I'm calling you out. You are lying, plain and simple.

I am calling you a liar.


Violence carried out by far Right groups or individuals, which have racism as a central component of their ideology, is of similar magnitude to that of Jihadist violence. In the years 1990 to 2010, there were 145 acts of political violence committed by the American far Right, resulting in 348 deaths. By comparison, 20 Americans were killed over the same period in acts of political violence carried out by Muslim-American civilians.


I assume those statistics exclude the WTC plane crashes eh?
 
According to a study released IN 2010 by researchers at Duke University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

piechart2.jpg





CNN
 
Originally Posted By: Azeem
According to a study released IN 2010 by researchers at Duke University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
dy/]CNN[/url]


hmm, your link is titled this

"Study: Threat of Muslim-American terrorism in U.S. exaggerated
January 6, 2010 4:08 p.m. EST"

but your image is from "loonwatch"


communists....LOL
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: FXjohn


Anti govt types, survivalists, gun nuts and tea partiers have killed more than Islamists. agreed.
I'm calling you out. You are lying, plain and simple.

I am calling you a liar.


Violence carried out by far Right groups or individuals, which have racism as a central component of their ideology, is of similar magnitude to that of Jihadist violence. In the years 1990 to 2010, there were 145 acts of political violence committed by the American far Right, resulting in 348 deaths. By comparison, 20 Americans were killed over the same period in acts of political violence carried out by Muslim-American civilians.


I assume those statistics exclude the WTC plane crashes eh?


It has now been 13 years since al Qaeda and its associated forces have carried out a successful attack inside the United States. National security analyst and global terror expert Peter Bergen asks, “Given this, it becomes harder to explain, in terms of American national security, why violence by homegrown right-wing extremists receives substantially less attention than does violence by homegrown jihadist militants?”

The Southern Poverty Law Center calculates there are 939 far right-wing hate groups across the country today, including neo-Nazis, Klansmen, white nationalists, neo-Confederates, racist skinheads, border vigilantes and others.

“Since 2000, the number of hate groups has increased by 56 percent.
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: FXjohn


Anti govt types, survivalists, gun nuts and tea partiers have killed more than Islamists. agreed.
I'm calling you out. You are lying, plain and simple.

I am calling you a liar.


Violence carried out by far Right groups or individuals, which have racism as a central component of their ideology, is of similar magnitude to that of Jihadist violence. In the years 1990 to 2010, there were 145 acts of political violence committed by the American far Right, resulting in 348 deaths. By comparison, 20 Americans were killed over the same period in acts of political violence carried out by Muslim-American civilians.

Are you trying to be taken seriously?
Islamists are responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths over the past decade across the world. Between the Islamist uprisings in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Nigeria, Somalia, Egypt, Gaza, Turkey, China and the Philippines there have been untold scores of innocents murdered because of Islamist aggression.
I don't know where you got your numbers from, but cherry picking data from a narrow dataset and then applying that to a large group is not just obfuscation, it is simply dishonest and a poor attempt at deception.
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn

It has now been 13 years since al Qaeda and its associated forces have carried out a successful attack inside the United States. National security analyst and global terror expert Peter Bergen asks, “Given this, it becomes harder to explain, in terms of American national security, why violence by homegrown right-wing extremists receives substantially less attention than does violence by homegrown jihadist militants?”


That didn't answer my question though. Because if we include 9/11, obviously the numbers are MUCH higher for the jihadists, correct?

Originally Posted By: FXjohn
The Southern Poverty Law Center calculates there are 939 far right-wing hate groups across the country today, including neo-Nazis, Klansmen, white nationalists, neo-Confederates, racist skinheads, border vigilantes and others.

“Since 2000, the number of hate groups has increased by 56 percent.


And do you perhaps think this has something to do with the perceived threat we are discussing in this thread? IE, do you think the increase in membership in these organizations, many of which focus around "white power" is a direct result of the increase in fear of a direct attack on our own soil (again) by the Muslim extremists?

Fear is a powerful tool. People will rally behind things that others will find down right disgusting or utterly ridiculous in order to feel safe. Finger pointing (it is THOSE GUYS!) gives people something to hate. It gives fear a face and that makes it easier to cope with.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

That didn't answer my question though. Because if we include 9/11, obviously the numbers are MUCH higher for the jihadists, correct?


you're right. i should have counted the 700,000 Iraqi civilians we killed in the name of 9-11.
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

That didn't answer my question though. Because if we include 9/11, obviously the numbers are MUCH higher for the jihadists, correct?


you're right. i should have counted the 700,000 Iraqi civilians we killed in the name of 9-11.


So by your account, your government is a white power extremist organization? Doesn't that mean that Oboma is a white supremacist based on this tilt?
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

That didn't answer my question though. Because if we include 9/11, obviously the numbers are MUCH higher for the jihadists, correct?


you're right. i should have counted the 700,000 Iraqi civilians we killed in the name of 9-11.


So by your account, your government is a white power extremist organization? Doesn't that mean that Oboma is a white supremacist based on this tilt?


yeah thats right. the president who won because he wanted us out of iraq and afghanistan and who kept us out of syria and libya, and who formed a coalition to fight ISIL is just like Bush and Cheney. Derp

Is there anyone these days who doesn't think Iraq and Afghanistan were costly blunders?
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

That didn't answer my question though. Because if we include 9/11, obviously the numbers are MUCH higher for the jihadists, correct?


you're right. i should have counted the 700,000 Iraqi civilians we killed in the name of 9-11.


So by your account, your government is a white power extremist organization? Doesn't that mean that Oboma is a white supremacist based on this tilt?


yeah thats right. the president who won because he wanted us out of iraq and afghanistan and who kept us out of syria and libya, and who formed a coalition to fight ISIL is just like Bush and Cheney. Derp

Is there anyone these days who doesn't think Iraq and Afghanistan were costly blunders?


Ummm dude, the same guy is bombing ISIS right now........ Hence the title of the thread.
21.gif


Or do civilian casualties that happen under Oboma not count?

Derp indeed.

Showing one's political slant does nothing to hide the fact that once again, under a completely different administration, America is meddling in the middle east. The fact that Oboma's platform for election leveraged getting out of the middle east to garner votes doesn't change that fact that here he is, doing it too.

So either the same civilian blood going forward is on his hands, which makes him not much different than those that came before him, or it isn't, in which case, it wasn't for the previous administrations either, nullifying your earlier "zinger" implying your own government was a terrorist organization.
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn

Is there anyone these days who doesn't think Iraq and Afghanistan were costly blunders?


They were costly blunders.
It would have been better not to get involved in the first place.
 
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
It has now been 13 years since al Qaeda and its associated forces have carried out a successful attack inside the United States. National security analyst and global terror expert Peter Bergen asks, “Given this, it becomes harder to explain, in terms of American national security, why violence by homegrown right-wing extremists receives substantially less attention than does violence by homegrown jihadist militants?”

The Southern Poverty Law Center calculates there are 939 far right-wing hate groups across the country today, including neo-Nazis, Klansmen, white nationalists, neo-Confederates, racist skinheads, border vigilantes and others.

“Since 2000, the number of hate groups has increased by 56 percent.


Jihadists caused mass chaos, three deaths, and hundreds of maimings eighteen months ago!
 
Quote:
Fear is a powerful tool. People will rally behind things that others will find down right disgusting or utterly ridiculous in order to feel safe. Finger pointing (it is THOSE GUYS!) gives people something to hate. It gives fear a face and that makes it easier to cope with.
What an irony! Who would have guess it would have come from OVERKILL? Aren't you the fanning the flames? Listen, killing is killing; whether it is by lethal injection, a bullet to the heart, blown up by drone controlled from 10K miles away or chopping off the head. The victim is not able to differentiate between them. You are the one who seem to be completely enthralled with the beheading.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
What an irony! Who would have guess it would have come from OVERKILL? Aren't you the fanning the flames? Listen, killing is killing; whether it is by lethal injection, a bullet to the heart, blown up by drone controlled from 10K miles away or chopping off the head. The victim is not able to differentiate between them. You are the one who seem to be completely enthralled with the beheading.


I don't think it is ironic at all. I find people fascinating and I like discussing them, what motivates them, what bothers them, what scares them and what drives them to say the things they say and do the things they do Vikas. In that sense I find your contempt of me fascinating and how you obsess about my posts, as there is obviously something psychological going on there.

I know that I bother you.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Vikas
What an irony! Who would have guess it would have come from OVERKILL? Aren't you the fanning the flames? Listen, killing is killing; whether it is by lethal injection, a bullet to the heart, blown up by drone controlled from 10K miles away or chopping off the head. The victim is not able to differentiate between them. You are the one who seem to be completely enthralled with the beheading.


I don't think it is ironic at all. I find people fascinating and I like discussing them, what motivates them, what bothers them, what scares them and what drives them to say the things they say and do the things they do Vikas. In that sense I find your contempt of me fascinating and how you obsess about my posts, as there is obviously something psychological going on there.

I know that I bother you.


you're not exactly sophisticated or interesting.
 
I'm a little surprised where this thread went because FXjohn seemed to me to be making a valid point that you had to get the actual numbers of domestic nutcases who kill in the name of Islam into context and that if you didn't you would magnify the fear level way beyond what is warranted.

However, I do think there is a concern that while most terrorists with larger ambitions and resources are limited to planning more serious acts from overseas, the current and next generation of western muslims might become radicalized and organized enough to carry out large scale attacks in their own countries. Indeed, don't forget it has already happened in London.

But, and maybe this is because of ISIS, it appears that there is a heightened fear of the US Muslim community in the US, and maybe this fear is magnified because many people don't understand that community nor understand what is going on in that community, so they assume the worst.

However, it is too easy, not to mention intellectually lazy, to point at the cultural and religious differences of the most prominent, negative muslim examples that you see either in person or on your chosen sources of news, hold that as your image of all muslims in the US and then link all muslims in the US to overseas terrorist groups via a nutjob who claims to be muslim.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: FXjohn
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

That didn't answer my question though. Because if we include 9/11, obviously the numbers are MUCH higher for the jihadists, correct?


you're right. i should have counted the 700,000 Iraqi civilians we killed in the name of 9-11.


Complete nut job number, all this does is zero out your credibility, man. No one is buying that nonsense...
 
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