Phone Call With Wix and Learned Some Things...

[ElastoHydro]

Originally Posted By: HangFire

Wix has a great rep for reliability, we all know their data is lacking. The reason is simple, the market doesn't demand the data. I bet large fleet buyers, OEM's like NAPA and manufacturers like Cat can get specs on individual filters. Since Fram owns most of the consumer market and Purolator has most of the rest, Wix really has no pressing reason to publish anything. If they did publish, I bet half of BITOG would say their numbers are wrong.

Not defending their practice, I wish they did publish the data.


Most consumers don't care, and most oil change shops want the cheapest whatever it may be. Few reasons to publish specs. They just say "this oil filter is good enough".

 

[ElastoHydro]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The ISO 4548-12 test determined the rating that Fram gave the Ultra based on the flow & delta-p the filter would have at 15K of use in a typical vehicle, as defined by some spec. That's how these filter companies come up with a rated use mileage ... it's not picked by throwing darts at a random chart.

I wonder if the 4548-12 test goes all the way to clogging. We know the Ultra can handle a lot of goopy gunk grit before clogging at least. I thought the 15K thing was chosen because they tested the Fram Ultra in actual cars in a dusty area of the world and saw they could handle it. Seems that would give definitive answers on longevity.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
The ISO 4548-12 test determined the rating that Fram gave the Ultra based on the flow & delta-p the filter would have at 15K of use in a typical vehicle, as defined by some spec. That's how these filter companies come up with a rated use mileage ... it's not picked by throwing darts at a random chart.

I wonder if the 4548-12 test goes all the way to clogging. We know the Ultra can handle a lot of goopy gunk grit before clogging at least. I thought the 15K thing was chosen because they tested the Fram Ultra in actual cars in a dusty area of the world and saw they could handle it. Seems that would give definitive answers on longevity.


I don't have the ISO 4548-12 test info in front of me, but I think they test the filter until a predetermined delta-p is seen across the media. Probably a delta-p close to the bypass valve setting. Knowing how much crud was caught during the test is somehow scaled/extrapolated to come up with the use mileage rating. I'm sure there is plenty of headroom in that rating.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
Very often we see beta ratios of 2/20=6/20 on regular Wix & napaGold filters, which translates to 50%@6 microns & 95%@20, which indicates they use the same filter paper/glass blend in Wix and NAPA Gold. Are there some exceptions? Probably.


Wix filters vary. Some have glass enhanced cellulose. Some have paper. Some have wire backed synthetic.


The only WIX that is wire backed synthetic is the "XP", which has an advertised efficiency (by WIX) as 50% @ 20 microns.

Incorrect, they make a XE line also..

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

The only WIX that is wire backed synthetic is the "XP", which has an advertised efficiency (by WIX) as 50% @ 20 microns.

Incorrect, they make a XE line also..


According to this link, it's the XD that has wire backed media ... they really don't say what's in the XE. And besides, when I was referencing the XP I was talking about PC usage, not heavy-duty truck/fleet usage which the XD/XE/ecoLAST filters are made for. If you go look up a WIX oil filter for your car, they won't list a XD/XE application for it.

WIX Heavy Duty Oil Filters

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

The only WIX that is wire backed synthetic is the "XP", which has an advertised efficiency (by WIX) as 50% @ 20 microns.

Incorrect, they make a XE line also..


According to this link, it's the XD that has wire backed media ... they really don't say what's in the XE. And besides, when I was referencing the XP I was talking about PC usage, not heavy-duty truck/fleet usage which the XD/XE/ecoLAST filters are made for. If you go look up a WIX oil filter for your car, they won't list a XD/XE application for it.

WIX Heavy Duty Oil Filters

Correct on the PC,just stating the XE(extra efficiency) IS..wire back syn media,Ive opened many.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ So what is the efficiency of WIX's extra efficiency (XE) filters? I'm just wondering if it's in the 99%+ range at 20 microns.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ So what is the efficiency of WIX's extra efficiency (XE) filters? I'm just wondering if it's in the 99%+ range at 20 microns.


Its 50% at 20 microns, but as use increases so does efficiency?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ So what is the efficiency of WIX's extra efficiency (XE) filters? I'm just wondering if it's in the 99%+ range at 20 microns.


Its 50% at 20 microns, but as use increases so does efficiency?

That's the efficiency rating of the XP ... but I was asking about the XE, which is in WIX's "heavy duty" filter line.

 

[Motorking]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
ArvinMeritor (Wix) is a major OEM manufacturer.

You can't beat their products.

You can turn on the FRAM Hyperbole machine on high and you will never displace Wix as the best oil filter out there.

The Wix XP is marketed as an extended performance (XP) oil filter.

That's why it starts at 50% @ 20 microns and improves through "caking" with use.

They are trying to avoid bypass before 15,000 miles.

FRAM only wishes they would wake up tomorrow and be Wix.





FRAM has no desire to be a smaller and less technologically advanced oil filter company and that is what WIX is when compared to FRAM. We have more OE business, More DIY business and more HD business than WIX. Our Ultra filter is 99% efficiency@20 microns RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX and has capacity to go 15k without bypassing. WIX XP is nothing more than a cheap (single layer of synthetic media) copy of the ULTRA filter

 

[ElastoHydro]

I've read a lot of Motorking's posts, and I can tell he's proud of working for Fram. He should be. They make great oil filters. Fram also has the best website I've ever seen, hands down, for filters. They actually tell you filter efficiency. Wow, others don't always bother with that unimportant detail. :sarcasm:

Fram also has a re-branded full synthetic oil they get from Conoco-Phillips. From a VOA comparison with Kendall GT-1 (another Conoco-Phillips creation) full synthetic, the Fram oil is about the same on moly, calcium, and boron, but missing GT-1's titanium anti-wear additives. Fram oil does have a higher VI though.

 

[steveh]

Originally Posted By: Motorking
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
ArvinMeritor (Wix) is a major OEM manufacturer.

You can't beat their products.

You can turn on the FRAM Hyperbole machine on high and you will never displace Wix as the best oil filter out there.

The Wix XP is marketed as an extended performance (XP) oil filter.

That's why it starts at 50% @ 20 microns and improves through "caking" with use.

They are trying to avoid bypass before 15,000 miles.

FRAM only wishes they would wake up tomorrow and be Wix.





FRAM has no desire to be a smaller and less technologically advanced oil filter company and that is what WIX is when compared to FRAM. We have more OE business, More DIY business and more HD business than WIX. Our Ultra filter is 99% efficiency@20 microns RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX and has capacity to go 15k without bypassing. WIX XP is nothing more than a cheap (single layer of synthetic media) copy of the ULTRA filter
You always seem to dodge the question if all model numbers are 99% @20 microns. Your website only lists three part numbers with that efficiency. Also on all of the new boxes only the PH8A size has any efficiency claims.

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ On Fram's website for the 99%+ efficiency rating of the Ultra, the flag note 2 says:

"FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency and dirt holding capacity using FRAM XG3387A, XG8A, and XG4967 and their leading economy filter model equivalents under ISO 4548-12 for particles > 20 microns."

What it looks like is that Fram used 3 different sized filters to basically cover the small to large filters. They are saying they used efficiency test date from those three differently sized filters, and that the average efficiency was 99%+ for particles 20 microns or greater.

They can't test every oil filter model they make, but what they have done is use the average of three different sized filters to capture any factors caused by filter size. Purolator references only the largest filter they make when they advertise their ISO 4545-12 efficiency testing results.

Don't know why Fram chose to remove the efficiency data from the box of the filters - seems odd. Maybe Motorking can chime in on that one.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: ElastoHydro
I've read a lot of Motorking's posts, and I can tell he's proud of working for Fram. He should be. They make great oil filters. Fram also has the best website I've ever seen, hands down, for filters. They actually tell you filter efficiency. Wow, others don't always bother with that unimportant detail. :sarcasm:

Fram also has a re-branded full synthetic oil they get from Conoco-Phillips. From a VOA comparison with Kendall GT-1 (another Conoco-Phillips creation) full synthetic, the Fram oil is about the same on moly, calcium, and boron, but missing GT-1's titanium anti-wear additives. Fram oil does have a higher VI though.



I have only seen efficiencies for the Ultra, nothing else.

And the Ultras for my 2 applications DO NOT have the capacity for 15k based on Fram's published data. They probably aren't 99% efficient either.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: badtlc

I have only seen efficiencies for the Ultra, nothing else.


Go to the Fram website and it lists the efficiency for all their filters.

Originally Posted By: badtlc
And the Ultras for my 2 applications DO NOT have the capacity for 15k based on Fram's published data. They probably aren't 99% efficient either.


Where are you looking to conclude this?

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ So what is the efficiency of WIX's extra efficiency (XE) filters? I'm just wondering if it's in the 99%+ range at 20 microns.

for what its worth...

its showing Nominal Micron Rating: 5

http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter/wix-oil-filters/51792XE.html

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ So what is the efficiency of WIX's extra efficiency (XE) filters? I'm just wondering if it's in the 99%+ range at 20 microns.

for what its worth...

its showing Nominal Micron Rating: 5

http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter/wix-oil-filters/51792XE.html


That link shows the beta ratio as: Beta Ratio: 2/20=3/10

Which means 50% @ 3 microns and 95% @ 10 microns.

Pretty efficiency.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ So what is the efficiency of WIX's extra efficiency (XE) filters? I'm just wondering if it's in the 99%+ range at 20 microns.

for what its worth...

its showing Nominal Micron Rating: 5

http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter/wix-oil-filters/51792XE.html


That link shows the beta ratio as: Beta Ratio: 2/20=3/10

Which means 50% @ 3 microns and 95% @ 10 microns.

Pretty efficiency.

Yea not bad we run them on our CAT engines.

 

[stickybuns]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

That link shows the beta ratio as: Beta Ratio: 2/20=3/10

Which means 50% @ 3 microns and 95% @ 10 microns.

Pretty efficiency.


Wish Wix would put that filter media in car oil filters. Great numbers, best I've ever seen in fact, except for MicroGreen car oil filters.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: stickybuns
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

That link shows the beta ratio as: Beta Ratio: 2/20=3/10

Which means 50% @ 3 microns and 95% @ 10 microns.

Pretty efficiency.


Wish Wix would put that filter media in car oil filters. Great numbers, best I've ever seen in fact, except for MicroGreen car oil filters.

I'm hoping that's what they make the NAPA Platinum out of.