Malaysian 777 shot down over Ukraine

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Trav

No one in their right mind would believe for a second there will ever be a another ground war in Europe.
When the Russians took all the countries the first time around all the way up to 1968 no one did anything but they all talked a lot.




I respectfully disagree. There is a history of that happening again and again in Europe, WWII is just the most recent example. Now of course it never plays out the same, but it has happened many, MANY times.

 

[Quattro Pete]

 

[Prelude]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman

Pro Russian Ukrainian separatists = Russian Army Special Forces infiltrators


Ukrainian "government" = Nazi junta paid directly by the Americans. I wouldn't be very surprized if it was an American bomb on board. And they will do everything to make it look like a missile was fired by the Donbass defenders or, even worse, directly from the Russian territory. Pro American TVs I watched today already started to call Putin a new Bin Laden with no proof whatsoever of any Russian connection to the terrorist act. BTW I am in the Ukraine right now. It is very sad to see what the junta did to once the best part of the USSR.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Prelude
Originally Posted By: A_Harman

Pro Russian Ukrainian separatists = Russian Army Special Forces infiltrators


Ukrainian "government" = Nazi junta paid directly by the Americans. I wouldn't be very surprized if it was an American bomb on board. And they will do everything to make it look like a missile was fired by the Donbass defenders or, even worse, directly from the Russian territory. Pro American TVs I watched today already started to call Putin a new Bin Laden with no proof whatsoever of any Russian connection to the terrorist act. BTW I am in the Ukraine right now. It is very sad to see what the junta did to once the best part of the USSR.


You sound like an angry (and brainwashed) russian yourself. Correction, more like soviet. Didn't you cross the BITOG's red line?

More info about the incident (including video of the crash and the actual Buk SAM involved): http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com/

 

[Nebroch]

Originally Posted By: dave1251

Russia's main exports are oil, natural gas, wood, min and military equipment. There is not a lack customers for what Russia sells.


Yes, other BRICS countries are more than happy to buy these products. Problem for Russia is that they won't pay as much and building new transport infrastructure is expensive. It is easy to smile if you're President of China..

http://fortune.com/2014/06/20/in-china-russia-gas-deal-why-china-wins-more/

 

[fdcg27]

Agree with your point.
For that matter, the Korean War was really a war with China that the US fought to a draw and maintained what would become a democratic, peaceful and prosperous south.
North Korea today is more of a problem for China than it is for the US. Despite all the belicose rhetoric, the North has never moved against the South.
The US could have continued to bomb North Vietnam back to the stone age but decided to settle things instead. The current Vietnamese regime is growing ever more liberal and the country is prospering as a result. The Vietnam War was a war against communism in the view of the US but was more of a war for self determination to the North Vietnamese.
The invasion of Iraq was a fateful decision that should never have been taken. The US could easily have undertaken a campaign of brutal repression, using the same methods Sadam used to hold the country together, and elected, correctly not to.
jacek has read the history a bit selectively, IMHO.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: Prelude
Ukrainian "government" = Nazi junta paid directly by the Americans. I wouldn't be very surprized if it was an American bomb on board. And they will do everything to make it look like a missile was fired by the Donbass defenders or, even worse, directly from the Russian territory. Pro American TVs I watched today already started to call Putin a new Bin Laden with no proof whatsoever of any Russian connection to the terrorist act. BTW I am in the Ukraine right now. It is very sad to see what the junta did to once the best part of the USSR.


Explain the video of the airliner being shot down. The airliner attempts futile evasive maneuvers while the missile is locked on to its target. Then is shot down. It must of been the operative in the airliner that summoned a guided missile out of his own bum to make Putin look bad.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Trav

No one in their right mind would believe for a second there will ever be a another ground war in Europe.
When the Russians took all the countries the first time around all the way up to 1968 no one did anything but they all talked a lot.




I respectfully disagree. There is a history of that happening again and again in Europe, WWII is just the most recent example. Now of course it never plays out the same, but it has happened many, MANY times.


No problem here. I have no doubt Russia will make a move. I have been warning friends in Germany about this when they said Russia is finished back in 90. The bear is only asleep he isn't dead i say.
Who in Europe is going to war with them? Germany is somewhat neutered because some say we like to start wars and the rest you can forget IMHO.

IMHO if it happens it wont be much of a war as it is a takeover.

 

[Andy636]

There are a bunch of things that just don't add up about this incident.

 

[Prelude]

Brainwashed? And what about the link you provided? Isn't it a sheer propaganda? Yes, this is a full scale war and the sides want to feel like they are doing right things. Do you really think that you get the whole picture from the American TV and newspapers and you don't get brainwashed?

 

[Andy636]

Hey now...let's try and keep it civilized here folks before we get the thread locked...

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Sounds like it was fired from a Russian missile launcher. If this is so....we need to get involved and take a stand. Hard to imagine the Russians getting away with this. No excuse if it's an accident.


You do know that Ukraine has the same SAM models the Russians do?

Not that Ukraine did it, (being it almost left Ukrainian airspace), but they have the same weapon system.

 

[Nebroch]

It's hard to find credible source these days. One should remain cautious with some random blogs and screenshots on Twitter, and mass media has it's own limitations...

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Trav

Who in Europe is going to war with them? Germany is somewhat neutered because some say we like to start wars and the rest you can forget IMHO.

IMHO if it happens it wont be much of a war as it is a takeover.


LMAO!!! Well, in recent history that's true. But the French are just as guilty of it if we look back further, same with the British....etc. The thing is that while the Germans don't have the stockpiles of things that go boom the Russians do I am certain they vividly recall the invasion and the lost of 28 million lives when the German war machine was on the move.... (not to mention the disgrace that was the battle of Kiev) And that was with a war on two fronts. Germany has the ability to go from zero to holy *bleep* in terms of manufacturing in short order. They've retained an incredible amount of manufacturing ability while the rest of the world sold out to China. So while the bear is sleeping I don't think the bear wants to revisit the German war machine anymore than the Germans want to recreate it. But I'm sure they will if they have to. They are an incredibly industrious and resourceful people, and this time it wouldn't be them vs the rest of the world but them plus the rest of the world vs Russia and perhaps China, depending on how that plays out. The Germans, the Japanese, Americans, Canadians, British, French...etc against Russia and China. I don't even want to imagine the potential for devastation there. But it would be stupid for anybody to underestimate the Germans. Incredibly stupid.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Looks like Pro Russian Ukrainian separatists did it.

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/so...er-ifax-2014071


More than likely true.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Prelude
Brainwashed? And what about the link you provided? Isn't it a sheer propaganda? Yes, this is a full scale war and the sides want to feel like they are doing right things. Do you really think that you get the whole picture from the American TV and newspapers and you don't get brainwashed?


Yes, there is some propaganda going on in some US network (I wont mention names not to offend the numerous FoxNews viewers on BITOG). But, nothing beats the Russian media that was nationalized by Putin to be a megaphone for his lies.

 

[CurtisB]

Originally Posted By: Prelude
Originally Posted By: A_Harman

Pro Russian Ukrainian separatists = Russian Army Special Forces infiltrators


Ukrainian "government" = Nazi junta paid directly by the Americans. I wouldn't be very surprized if it was an American bomb on board. And they will do everything to make it look like a missile was fired by the Donbass defenders or, even worse, directly from the Russian territory. Pro American TVs I watched today already started to call Putin a new Bin Laden with no proof whatsoever of any Russian connection to the terrorist act. BTW I am in the Ukraine right now. It is very sad to see what the junta did to once the best part of the USSR.


Please stay in the Ukraine. Canada has enough leftist, brainwashed anti American lunatics and our quota is full.

 

[Andy636]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek


Yes, there is some propaganda going on in some US network (I wont mention names not to offend the numerous FoxNews viewers on BITOG). But, nothing beats the Russian media that was nationalized by Putin to be a megaphone for his lies.


I see what you did there

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Looks like Pro Russian Ukrainian separatists did it.

http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/so...er-ifax-2014071


More than likely true.


While this probably is true, I'm sure that Putin's people didn't supply this sophisticated and apparently effective anti-aircraft missile system.
The Ukrainian separatists probably just found it by the side of the road somewhere and figured out how to make it work.
No Russian involvement here.
The appropriate phrase would be "smoking gun".
For the West to allow Putin and company to deny responsibility would be craven.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

But it would be stupid for anybody to underestimate the Germans. Incredibly stupid.


True. But that goes for Russia too.