K&N Cool Air intake, '13 2.0L Dart

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Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
What happened to the hose that went from the air filter housing around the dip stick?


It's connected to the metal intake pipe a few inches downstream of the filter.
 
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I used to put a cai on everything,until I clued in a stock engine is matched to the intake so velocity can be maximized throughout the entire rpm range,instead of just at wife open throttle.


Quoted for truth. I had a '97 Dakota with the 5.2L V-8 and found an AEM DryFlow intake kit locally on Craigslist for 40 bucks. I found that there was a low-to-part throttle torque "sag" just off idle. It picked back up after about 2,000 RPM. And it ran strong to redline, or at least to where the 44RE would upshift. I tweaked that, too, with the TV cable.

But I ended up putting the stock intake back on, and part-throttle driveability was restored to normal.

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Modding is fun,and expensive.


I agree completely. It's more fun to learn by doing rather than learn by reading. So what if the OP decides to put the stock system back in and sell his K&N kit for 100 bucks down the road? He spent 90 dollars to have some fun and learn about his car. To me, that's worth doing every time.
 
I've used K&N filters on several of my vehicles. The silicon readings in my UOAs showed no more than when I used paper filters. Of course, there's always the CHUNKs that don't get counted in a UOA (for anyone that would have brought that up.) Cleaned and reoiled properly, they are sufficient filters.

To see any increase of HP or MPGs you would have to have a vehicle that has an intake that really needs to be opened up. If you don't have one of those, no increase.

But you never, ever get back what you paid for it in any way. If you buy the cleaner and re-oil oil it will blow any savings you may have accumulated.

They are largely for the cool factor and little else.
 
Saying K&N CAIs will destroy your engine is akin to saying "Frams fiber endcaps will destroy yer engine!!111!!1!1!"

Now look a few years later, the consensus on this has changed and more people are going fram versus *gasp* ripping media puros and motorcrafts.

just 20-25 years ago, 10w30 was the go to oil and anything else thinner "will destroy your engine! its like water!"

Then filter mags were debunked and according to some "if they slip, that's metal going everywhere!!"

Oh and cant forget "Once you go to synthetic you can never go back! and synthetic isn't a good break in oil!"

By these theories, someone running a K&N CAI, 0w20, and a OCOD w/ a filter mag after changing from factory fill synthetic to conventional. is a ticking timebomb that's car is going to die in 3000 miles.

which sadly some may still believe...


Ive used both K&N drop ins as well as Spectre drop ins, as well as both mfgrs cones, never had an issue.

My ranger has had a Spectre drop in since it was at 30K with no issues.... and its an oiled drop in.
 
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cant forget when these were the "rage" and everyone upsold them.
 
So for the guys who think it is a noise maker and makes no power...that might be the case...On your car. MPGs? I don't know don't care if I am modifing my car MPGs are obviously not my first priority.

Take a LS1 Camaro, Firebird or Corvette. Elimante the stock air box and use a Black Wing, CAI or what in the F-body world is referred to as a LID and you can see anywhere from 15 to 25 RWHP through the entire RPM range. That is Dyno proven time and time again.

Same goes with my Supercharged Grand Prix. Stop thinking one dimensional folks.

A little time on the Dyno might help some folks here or at least a day out there to see how a car reacts to certain things so you are not thinking about just your own car.
 
It won't destroy your engine, but it won't help anything either.

And yes, CAI/intakes can help in some applications. A NA 2.0L is very unlikely to be one of them. $190 is an expensive noisemaker in this case. I would have preferred a muffler delete.
 
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Stop thinking one dimensional folks.

A little time on the Dyno might help some folks here or at least a day out there to see how a car reacts to certain things so you are not thinking about just your own car.


A great point, as the modding biz is wildly specific to the make, model, and tons of other details....
 
I don't think it's gonna kill the car really soon or blow the motor. It certainly isn't helping it though.
 
Originally Posted By: GumbyJarvis
ngk_zuendkerze_mit_mehrmasse_elektrode_05.jpg


cant forget when these were the "rage" and everyone upsold them.


The 4-electrode plugs (albeit, Bosch) are factory equipment on many European cars due to their extended lifespan FYI.
 
There's nothing wrong with using K&N filters...worst case scenario you'll get no gain...they aren't going to lose any power, and you aren't going to noticed any difference in filtering abilities compared to paper elements in terms of engine life...the exaggerated claims of lousy filtering are just that...
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
There's nothing wrong with using K&N filters...worst case scenario you'll get no gain...they aren't going to lose any power, and you aren't going to noticed any difference in filtering abilities compared to paper elements in terms of engine life...the exaggerated claims of lousy filtering are just that...


They aren't "claims." K&N filters are lousy filters compared to just about everything else. That has been proven in ISO tests over and over. Whether or not the lousy filtration will affect engine life, or the extent to which it does affect engine life is up for debate. No proof they will significantly shorten an engine life that I have seen but it is not deniable they are terrible filters.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
grampi said:
No proof they will significantly shorten an engine life that I have seen but it is not deniable they are terrible filters.


So which is it, your sentence contradicts itself? Saying a filter that doesn't filter quite as well as a paper element is terrible is an exaggeration...K&Ns are a compromise filter...they allow ever so slightly more to get into your engine, but at a much higher flow rate, and they never need to be replaced...that doesn't sound like a terrible filter to me...you're also exaggerating about how bad they're filtering abilities are...I've seen the tests...yes the paper elements filter better, but what the K&Ns let through is negligible...I've yet to see it proven that engine wear is higher on K&N filtered engines so your claims of them being lousy filters is also an exaggeration......
 
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Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: badtlc
grampi said:
No proof they will significantly shorten an engine life that I have seen but it is not deniable they are terrible filters.


So which is it, your sentence contradicts itself? Saying a filter that doesn't filter quite as well as a paper element is terrible is an exaggeration...K&Ns are a compromise filter...they allow ever so slightly more to get into your engine, but at a much higher flow rate, and they never need to be replaced...that doesn't sound like a terrible filter to me...you're also exaggerating about how bad they're filtering abilities are...I've seen the tests...yes the paper elements filter better, but what the K&Ns let through is negligible...I've yet to see it proven that engine wear is higher on K&N filtered engines so your claims of them being lousy filters is also an exaggeration......


You don't see the difference in filtration and engine life? Seriously? You are just trolling now.

In case you are just that ignorant, terrible is a relative term and K&N filters are terrible in comparison. Letting in 400-500% more dust/dirt is terrible. You can use your own words but my word for that is terrible.
 
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Originally Posted By: grampi
K&Ns are a compromise filter...they allow ever so slightly more to get into your engine, but at a much higher flow rate, and they never need to be replaced...


OK, but why choose to do something like that when you could just fit a paper filter with more media and retain stock filtration performance and increased air flow?

OR

Install something like a Donaldson PowerCore which flows more than stock OR the K&N, filters better than both of them, and is also basically a lifetime filter, particularly in an automotive application.

21.gif


Widman posted some pics a while back of PowerCore retrofits on some vehicles and I was really impressed with his thought process. They are arguably the best air filter out there, the issue seems to be they lack the "bling" of a gauze filter/CAI setup. And of course they are pretty large. But then so are many of the big cone/heat shield combo's that get installed.
 
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: badtlc
grampi said:
No proof they will significantly shorten an engine life that I have seen but it is not deniable they are terrible filters.


So which is it, your sentence contradicts itself? Saying a filter that doesn't filter quite as well as a paper element is terrible is an exaggeration...K&Ns are a compromise filter...they allow ever so slightly more to get into your engine, but at a much higher flow rate, and they never need to be replaced...that doesn't sound like a terrible filter to me...you're also exaggerating about how bad they're filtering abilities are...I've seen the tests...yes the paper elements filter better, but what the K&Ns let through is negligible...I've yet to see it proven that engine wear is higher on K&N filtered engines so your claims of them being lousy filters is also an exaggeration......


You don't see the difference in filtration and engine life? Seriously? You are just trolling now.

In case you are just that ignorant, terrible is a relative term and K&N filters are terrible in comparison. Letting in 400-500% more dust/dirt is terrible. You can use your own words but my word for that is terrible.


Like I said, prove that K&Ns contribute to premature engine wear, otherwise, go away...if they are as bad as you claim then it should be an easy task...
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: grampi
K&Ns are a compromise filter...they allow ever so slightly more to get into your engine, but at a much higher flow rate, and they never need to be replaced...


OK, but why choose to do something like that when you could just fit a paper filter with more media and retain stock filtration performance and increased air flow?

OR

Install something like a Donaldson PowerCore which flows more than stock OR the K&N, filters better than both of them, and is also basically a lifetime filter, particularly in an automotive application.

21.gif


Widman posted some pics a while back of PowerCore retrofits on some vehicles and I was really impressed with his thought process. They are arguably the best air filter out there, the issue seems to be they lack the "bling" of a gauze filter/CAI setup. And of course they are pretty large. But then so are many of the big cone/heat shield combo's that get installed.


The Donaldsons sound like a good alternative to K&Ns...just never heard of them...I will look into them...
 
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: grampi
K&Ns are a compromise filter...they allow ever so slightly more to get into your engine, but at a much higher flow rate, and they never need to be replaced...


OK, but why choose to do something like that when you could just fit a paper filter with more media and retain stock filtration performance and increased air flow?

OR

Install something like a Donaldson PowerCore which flows more than stock OR the K&N, filters better than both of them, and is also basically a lifetime filter, particularly in an automotive application.

21.gif


Widman posted some pics a while back of PowerCore retrofits on some vehicles and I was really impressed with his thought process. They are arguably the best air filter out there, the issue seems to be they lack the "bling" of a gauze filter/CAI setup. And of course they are pretty large. But then so are many of the big cone/heat shield combo's that get installed.


The Donaldsons sound like a good alternative to K&Ns...just never heard of them...I will look into them...


Here's Richard's (widman) thread with some pics:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2131630
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: MCompact
The effectiveness of a CAI depends on the individual vehicle; I picked up @24 bhp when I installed a Mazdaspeed CAI on my MS3; the 30-70 mph 3rd gear times dropped by 0.61 seconds. In contrast, a CAI makes absolutely no difference on my 1995 3er; I was lucky to pick up 12 bhp with a Turner/Conforti chip...


Times a million.

My car gets 10 of its hp from a factory modded air intake that is radically different from a regular 5.7 car. A 'snoot' will add virtually nothing but noise.

On my personal Silverado it was good for a full one mpg!


Steve--- the 1mpg on your silverado -- I assume this is from a modded factory box? do tell-- I'd be interested!

on topic--

I've done a K&N cone years ago and did end up with a very fine powder, after many thousands of miles, on the intake tract. I never had problems with MAF fouling.

I saw a dirt bike with K&N start in the morning, run all day in the dust, and have inadequate compression to start (verified by gauge) at the end of the day. had to be bored, honed, and re-piston/ringed. I loved the sound of the K&N cone in the vehicle it was in, and the throttle response was "snappier" but no gains in performance or mpg. I have had more success with insulating factory intakes and modding the airbox in cases where they'd breathe warm engine air instead of grill air.

I commend the OP for wrenching on his own ride! Even if this mod doesn't live up to the hype---- ALL of us at some point or another did a mod that didn't work out great - it's how we learn.

-M
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: grampi
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: grampi
K&Ns are a compromise filter...they allow ever so slightly more to get into your engine, but at a much higher flow rate, and they never need to be replaced...


OK, but why choose to do something like that when you could just fit a paper filter with more media and retain stock filtration performance and increased air flow?

OR

Install something like a Donaldson PowerCore which flows more than stock OR the K&N, filters better than both of them, and is also basically a lifetime filter, particularly in an automotive application.

21.gif


Widman posted some pics a while back of PowerCore retrofits on some vehicles and I was really impressed with his thought process. They are arguably the best air filter out there, the issue seems to be they lack the "bling" of a gauze filter/CAI setup. And of course they are pretty large. But then so are many of the big cone/heat shield combo's that get installed.


The Donaldsons sound like a good alternative to K&Ns...just never heard of them...I will look into them...


Here's Richard's (widman) thread with some pics:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2131630


I went to their website and unfortunately they don't have a vehicle application guide...
 
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