New To BMW and Synthetics

Status
Not open for further replies.
] What does bother me is that Ford Ecoboost turbo engines only spec dino conventional, and Hyundai turbos too, others I'm sure. Its true this stuff survives 'OK', yet I have to think more deposits and coking occurs with dino choices. [/quote]


Car manufacturers will recommend anything to be competitible on a new car market. Cheaper oil,cheaper maintenance over all. They know engine will be good unti warranty runs out. Is Ford a strong player among fleet buyers? If so there is your answer. In Europe Alfa Romeo did same thing in the late 1990s early 2000s with their Twin Spark engines. They recommended 20k km OCI with only 10w-40 oil,and cambelt change every 120k km.Result: a lot of bottom end failures and a lot of bent valves.Cars that was running shorter OCI and 60k km cambelt change drive to this day with no problems. And this 20k oil and 120k belt was only to compete better with chain driven BMW for the fleet buyers as FIAT admitted later on.
 
Last edited:
Use the M1 0w-40, I've run it in my M5 for the last two winters and it performed admirably. My sister also runs it in her 330i, which is in Edmonton, again, flawless cold start performance.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Use the M1 0w-40, I've run it in my M5 for the last two winters and it performed admirably. My sister also runs it in her 330i, which is in Edmonton, again, flawless cold start performance.


^^^ This.
 
A 40 weight oil is really not needed in a Canadian Winter. Yes a 0W40 will start up just fine at any temp, but if you have an oil temp gauge you will see that the oil will never approach the same temp it does in the summer. That 40 weight will cost you in MPG.

I will argue that most any car can use a 0W20 in the Canadian winter, and the oil will still be thicker that a 40 weight would be in the summer,
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
I will argue that most any car can use a 0W20 in the Canadian winter, and the oil will still be thicker that a 40 weight would be in the summer,

I'd be cautious in some vehicles, but generally speaking, especially with short tripping, there should be no issues. If I were driving my F-150 (or G for that matter) just a mile at a time in the winter from a cold start, I cannot see there being any problems with a 0w-20.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak

I'd be cautious in some vehicles,


Really? Which vehicles? They use 0W20 year round in Texas, I think its good for Canadian Winters. Have you ever checked your oil temp in winter after driving for an hour? Its very low, maybe 130F
 
I wanted to use 0W-20 in my BMW this past winter (kept outside in extreme northern Wisconsin and mainly short-tripped), but noooo.... I got shot down on here like I was advocating smallpox
whistle.gif


Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
I will argue that most any car can use a 0W20 in the Canadian winter, and the oil will still be thicker that a 40 weight would be in the summer,

I'd be cautious in some vehicles, but generally speaking, especially with short tripping, there should be no issues. If I were driving my F-150 (or G for that matter) just a mile at a time in the winter from a cold start, I cannot see there being any problems with a 0w-20.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I wanted to use 0W-20 in my BMW this past winter (kept outside in extreme northern Wisconsin and mainly short-tripped), but noooo.... I got shot down on here like I was advocating smallpox
whistle.gif


So what did you use instead, and did it cause you problems?
 
I put in the usual 0W-40 mainly because that is what I had.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I wanted to use 0W-20 in my BMW this past winter (kept outside in extreme northern Wisconsin and mainly short-tripped), but noooo.... I got shot down on here like I was advocating smallpox
whistle.gif

So what did you use instead, and did it cause you problems?
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Really? Which vehicles? They use 0W20 year round in Texas, I think its good for Canadian Winters. Have you ever checked your oil temp in winter after driving for an hour? Its very low, maybe 130F

I wouldn't try it in a diesel, for one.
wink.gif


Seriously, I would be cautious with the European vehicles that do call for a higher HTHS, and given the oil temperatures of the G37, summer or winter (and given that the oil pan is well shielded from the elements), I'd not want to be experimenting with an ILSAC 20 if i were doing long tripping in the winter.

The oil temperature in a G37 will never be 130 F after an hour's operation, and I don't care how cold it is outside. Heck, I changed oil in the thing on one of the coldest days of the year, and after driving 8 miles in -34 C, I could barely touch the filter, and I've done bare handed oil changes with taxis that ran all day in 34 C weather in August. Oil temperatures in these 3.7 L engines customarily run north of 212 F even in "normal" driving.

If someone wishes to run a 0w-20 in that for anything aside from extremely short tripping, they can try it on their own G37. Heck, even the Audi 200's oil temperature, with extremely good oil cooling and allowing a 5w-20 in the winter, would have exceeded 130 F after an hour's drive in the winter. On the flip side, it would never exceed about 200 F, no matter how hard I pushed it even in extreme heat.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
A 40 weight oil is really not needed in a Canadian Winter. Yes a 0W40 will start up just fine at any temp, but if you have an oil temp gauge you will see that the oil will never approach the same temp it does in the summer. That 40 weight will cost you in MPG.

I will argue that most any car can use a 0W20 in the Canadian winter, and the oil will still be thicker that a 40 weight would be in the summer,


The oil cooler on my M5 is also an oil heater. I've got my oil temp up to "regular" during the winter, it just takes a lot longer to get there.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Garak

I'd be cautious in some vehicles,


Really? Which vehicles? They use 0W20 year round in Texas, I think its good for Canadian Winters. Have you ever checked your oil temp in winter after driving for an hour? Its very low, maybe 130F


I can get mine up to 180-190F if I drive it long enough. My issue last winter was the short tripping didn't get it much above 150-170F. And that is with a 7L sump.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Garak

I'd be cautious in some vehicles,


Really? Which vehicles? They use 0W20 year round in Texas, I think its good for Canadian Winters. Have you ever checked your oil temp in winter after driving for an hour? Its very low, maybe 130F

LOL, in ANY European car after 10 minutes you would have 3rd degree burn touching filter.
I am driving car when go to ski, anywhere from 25 degrees to -30 degrees. On -30, if it is flat, not to mention uphill, coolant temp will be at 190 in about 5min, and considering that car has coolant/oil heat exchanger, very soon oil will reach same temp.
In the city, in very short distances, takes more time, but I would still say in about 10min coolant is at 190, and oil will get there very soon.
0W20 oil in my dictionary does not exist, regardless how short distance is and how cold it is.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
I will argue that most any car can use a 0W20 in the Canadian winter, and the oil will still be thicker that a 40 weight would be in the summer,

I'd be cautious in some vehicles, but generally speaking, especially with short tripping, there should be no issues. If I were driving my F-150 (or G for that matter) just a mile at a time in the winter from a cold start, I cannot see there being any problems with a 0w-20.

Most BMWs due to their exposed finned ali' sumps have a hard time generating even low normal oil temp's of 80C in a Cdn winter. I've run M1 0W-20 in the winter in my Bimmer for that very reason.
But unless trips are quite short, under 20 minutes or you've got oil gauges to monitor things, just going with M1 AFE 0W-30 is probably the best choice. Heck it's MRV is lower than most 0W-20s anyway and it is heavy enough to be used used year round in a 2005 325. Or for non extremely cold winters and year round use I'd suggest any syn 5W-30, which is more than viscose enough even for spirited street driving on the hottest summer days.

Regarding LL-01 BMW approved oils, I think the list is too limited in terms of available oils choices. The BMW LL-01 FE 0W-30 (HTHSV 3.0cP) isn't even available here, but if you're still under warranty here in Canada the BMW 5W-30 at $8.41 is hard to beat, cheaper than M1 0W-40 even on sale.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
0W20 oil in my dictionary does not exist, regardless how short distance is and how cold it is.

What do you think the problem would be? My BMW calls out a 20-weight BTW, up to 20 degrees. But that was the 20-weight of the time, surely TGMO 0W-20 would be an improvement?

 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: edyvw
0W20 oil in my dictionary does not exist, regardless how short distance is and how cold it is.

What do you think the problem would be? My BMW calls out a 20-weight BTW, up to 20 degrees. But that was the 20-weight of the time, surely TGMO 0W-20 would be an improvement?



That chart exists in all European manuals.
I owned BMW 325 E30, 325 E36, 520I, 525I E34, and there was always that chart, but used in Bosnian winters 10W40 or 5W40, and those winters are on par with Canadian, while mountains see temps lower then -35 sometimes.
If I plan to keep a car for long time, and I always do, I stick to thicker oils x40, while only in last several years I used x30.
And somehow, all my cars had 200,000 miles or more before they were sold.
You can use 0W20, but is your driving 100% 2-3 miles long?
If I knew that someone used X20 or x30 non Euro spec in BMW, I would never buy that car from that person, just my preference.
 
Yes it probably does. What was your reasoning for using 40-weight in winter though, and why do you always stick with thicker oils? Do they protect better?

Trip length isn't accounted for in that chart, only ambient.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
That chart exists in all European manuals.
I owned BMW 325 E30, 325 E36, 520I, 525I E34, and there was always that chart, but used in Bosnian winters 10W40 or 5W40, and those winters are on par with Canadian, while mountains see temps lower then -35 sometimes.
If I plan to keep a car for long time, and I always do, I stick to thicker oils x40, while only in last several years I used x30.
And somehow, all my cars had 200,000 miles or more before they were sold.
You can use 0W20, but is your driving 100% 2-3 miles long?
If I knew that someone used X20 or x30 non Euro spec in BMW, I would never buy that car from that person, just my preference.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Yes it probably does. What was your reasoning for using 40-weight in winter though, and why do you always stick with thicker oils? Do they protect better?

Trip length isn't accounted for in that chart, only ambient.

Originally Posted By: edyvw
That chart exists in all European manuals.
I owned BMW 325 E30, 325 E36, 520I, 525I E34, and there was always that chart, but used in Bosnian winters 10W40 or 5W40, and those winters are on par with Canadian, while mountains see temps lower then -35 sometimes.
If I plan to keep a car for long time, and I always do, I stick to thicker oils x40, while only in last several years I used x30.
And somehow, all my cars had 200,000 miles or more before they were sold.
You can use 0W20, but is your driving 100% 2-3 miles long?
If I knew that someone used X20 or x30 non Euro spec in BMW, I would never buy that car from that person, just my preference.

When that chart was made, it was very hard, almost impossible to find 0W20 (and still is) or even 5W30 oil in Europe. Yes, all BMW's, VW's, Opel's etc had that chart.
Second, even BMW dealerships always used in E30's 15W40 oil regardless of season, while with introduction of 24V engines they started to use 10W40 and in mid 90's 5W40.
Even today, in Europe there is debate about 5W30 oils (which proved as disastrous for some diesel engines).
Almost all European cars have heat exchanger, and my only concern is cold flow, meaning at the start.
That is why I used here always x40 or the heaviest x30 oils such as GC or now M1 ESP (12.2cst).
Also, driving distance is not of concern to me, as long as oil has very good cold start flow. In Europe distances are shorter. Before moving here, sometimes I would make at most 2 miles a day! Temp gauge would not even move during winter in such short distances.
But, all my cars made more then 200,000 miles. I sold one Opel with around 320,000 miles.
So yes, I am more concerned with protection.
I started to use 5W30 ESP to address deposit issues in VW DI engine.
However, I choose M1 ESP because it has best pour point among readily available VW 504.00/507.00 oils (-45c), and it is the thickest one on market.
Also, that chart says x20 oil in certain temperature. What if temperature goes from -20 to 60's and you have to make long trip?
So x20 oils? If you ask me, not in Euro car under any circumstances (Volvo excluded or some others calling for thinner oils).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top